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hi, are the release values only for lid? Or does it also help with the rear windshield snapping in place? for i have already press and push the lid in place. since i couldnt get to the trunk. however; now i got the trunk open. Do i still need to open/release the valves? or just continue with locking the top at the front with key.
With low hydraulic fluid in the pump, what are my new expectation?
The valve on the pump allows fluid to bypass it, which makes manually operating the cylinders easier. The locks on either side release a valve at the bottom of the compartment cover struts to make them easier to operate manually. Even with those two locks released, on earlier models (2004/2005 I think) the struts are still very difficult to operate manually.
With low hydraulic fluid in the pump, what are my new expectation?
Well, that could be a hint, here. If you have low fluid, this may not be a limit switch issue - you might have a leak. When you try top operate the top with the console switch, does the pump run? If so, then I;d look more toward a leak being the issue.
Hello, You're right. Those two struts are very had to lift. Or maybe i did something wrong. When i release the valve on the pump all the fluid disappeared from the reservoir. I turn both struts valve counter 90, release lever on hinges and still couldn't lift the lid. Should i add fluid to reservoir and restart the process?
Prior to opening the trunk, i manually lift the lid up. Then i took out canvas top and attached it to the front, then i slide the compartment cover all the way in, unaware that rear windshield needs to snapping on the cover first, then i can slide the cover in. Now i can't lift the cover out.
PS. no noise or function from the pump when i press the control switch.
The valve on the pump allows fluid to bypass it, which makes manually operating the cylinders easier. The locks on either side release a valve at the bottom of the compartment cover struts to make them easier to operate manually. Even with those two locks released, on earlier models (2004/2005 I think) the struts are still very difficult to operate manually.
Well, that could be a hint, here. If you have low fluid, this may not be a limit switch issue - you might have a leak. When you try top operate the top with the console switch, does the pump run? If so, then I;d look more toward a leak being the issue.
I really do appreciate your, time, expertise and attention to my issue. Whenever i hear your name , i will think of the the demigod that you're. Hari Krishna.
After my last reply to you, These were my list of actions that roundup this Saturday evening.
1. Filled the reservoir to the max.
2. Turn the valve on pump 45* to left, turn valve on both side struts to 90* to left.
3. Noticed the the fluid leveled dropped to between max and mini line.
4. Failed at lifting and pulling the compartment hinges.
5. Reversed step 2.
6. Got in the car and engage the switch, no sound or action from system/pump.
7. Shift the transmission from to to park to drive back to park.
8. Engage the switch once more and windows goes up and compartment cover lifts and slide backwards to engage the rear windshield bow.
9. Got out of the car to inspect and then completed the closing process.
10. Fluid level dropped below the mini line and fluid was added back to max level.
(never added fluid in 31 months, last time i checked it was a mini line/level.)
Thanks the demigod Rudney and Lord Balarama(Krishna's merciful older brother)
When you have the time, can you share your thoughts on what i need to prepare for from here on forward.
Hari Bol
Just so I understand correctly, you were able to successfully close the top with the console switch after adding fluid? And now when you check the fluid level it is low? That does sound like a bad leak. If it is, and you see no obvious signs of fluid, it may be in the main lift cylinders that raise the top frame.. When they leak, the fluid pools deep in body, ahead of the rear wheels, and is hard to find.
Good Morning, Yes. And even thou i would rather not have a leak, however; its inevitable with convertibles. To verify, i opened and closed the top a few minutes ago. The fluid went from max at closed to mini at closed. Where and how do i located and remove this cylinder. I will ship out to Mr Klaus and attempt diy.
I am need of assistance as well on the same type of issue and hopeful someone can assist. I just completed a Re-Furbish/Re-Build of all the Hydraulic Cylinders on my 2002 SL500 and all is working good with the exception of the Top completing the closing cycle. I can successfully lower the top and close the toneau cover however when I go thru the process of closing the top the full cycle happens properly but falls short of the last cycle to close the REAR section of the top and lock down the REAR section. Can someone assist me with where I am missing a switch or something? Here is an image of where the top stops in final close cycle.
Happy for you that you got your cylinders repaired. It could be a detached/faultyswitch on the cover. BTW, if you don't mind sharing, who did the repairs and what was the cost!
I did the Cylinder Repairs myself...takes time and tedious work but overall the process is simple.....
Good information and replacement Seal Kits located at the following:
Seal Kit: http://mbseals.com
Instruction for Rebuild: http://mbseals.com/R129TopCylindersRnRall.pdf
As for your comments on the Detached/faulty switch and direction on to what switch that could be? Before I started the rebuild all the switches worked.
Hi, I have exactly the same problem as in the first post of this thread (by @BK627). The roof closing does not finish, the back two parts remain open. I've checked the switch in the upper right side of the windshield "soft top limit switch in catch position (S84/18)". It is good. I've even soldered in two wires to monitor the switch during the top operation with a voltmeter - the switch works perfectly.
The problem is very consistent and very reproducable. I can go back to the open position, but can not complete the closing. The top was working fine before it. The fluid level is good, no leaks anywhere.
Any suggestions for the next step? I'm guessing it's some other limit switch, but which one and where? Thanks!!!!
It seems that the front latches should not just trigger "soft top limit switch in catch position (S84/18)" (which they do), but right after that the front should latch into the windshield top (which it does not - clearly seen with the lining removed), which would trigger another microswitch on the LEFT side of the top of the windshield, and that should give a signal to finish closing the back. But the front latches fail to latch - what could be the reason? thanks
Watching sequence of events in videos of the roof closing - the trigger to latch the front could be microswitching indicating that the back window is in the vertical position
Problem solved - after finding no problems with the switches I noticed a new leak - the mechanic who recently installed new hydraulic cylinders for the previous owner did not route the fluid line correctly (in the trunk - putting it BEHIND the cylinder not in front of it) and the line was being pulled finally causing a leak on the cylinder connection. I have moved it to the front of the cylinder and no leak there.
After having a few failures in different cars recently caused by different clueless certified mechanics (broken suspension link due to left-right links mixed up, loose brake caliper bolts ending with a big "bang" when a loose bolt went flying when driving away etc) I begin to loose faith in that profession...
Well, one problem solved but more to go. Apart from re-routing the supply lines I also had to send the cylinder to TopHydraulics as it was also leaking after a (poor) rebuild by a local shop. Now the cylinder came back, I've installed it, no more leaks. Fluid topped up. No errors in DAS, top goes down reliably on every attempt, but has problems closing. It stops again just like on the picture at the top of this thread. I read switches in DAS and they appear ok - the right side switch at the top of the windshield triggers, so the well cover should go down next.
If I keep pressing the top button, the pump keeps working but nothing happens. If I wait several seconds and press the top button again to close, the top finishing closing properly.
What could be the reason? Has anyone got an exact sequence of the top operation which lists exactly which switch closure triggers which piston to operate next? I've checked most of the switches (7 or 8) and they operate correctly. But maybe they are slightly loose sometimes and don't work in all cases?
Or is the pump weak? At which point of the top operation is the highest pressure required? How to measure if the pressure is good enough? The shop which was doing all the poor top repairs before for the previous owner also installed a used pump charging $1000 for the part (instead of rebuilding it for $600 at TopHydraulics or charging a fair market price of $300 or so), so I'm not sure how good the pump is.
How many open/close cycles have you run since working on the hydraulics? It can take 10-20 cycles to get all the air out of the lines. In case you have not seen me post this before:
Maybe 5 cycles - and yes, I've missed this point. Excellent news, let's keep the fingers crossed that after more cycles the problem goes away. I'll keep you posted, thanks!
Unfortunately it is not it. I've run the top a few times with a little manual help from a second person pushing down the well cover. Then it started working by itself, completing the cycle. So I've run it a few times up and down and it worked correctly. In total I must have run about 20 cycles since changing the cylinder. I've left the car sit for a couple of hours (with the top down) and wanted to put it up - does not complete the cycle. Brought it down and up again another 5 times or so - always stops exactly in the same spot (right before closing the cover) and does not close.
Last edited by George993; Dec 7, 2019 at 02:27 PM.
Finally I have figured out how to troubleshoot the top:
1) Print Rodney's document from benzbits above (thanks Rodney)
2) Connect DAS, set it on display of all the "actual values"
3) Operate the top through Stages, see what documented Stage it stops at and see the values of switches at that point
In my case it completes stage 4 correctly (Switch S84/15 shows the bow is in fully raised position), fails at stage 5 (cylinder 2 fails to lock roof into the windshield), and does not start Stage 6 (closing the compartment).
So next I need to figure out why cylinder 2 fails to lock (no leaks at this cylinder). Thoughts? thanks
Last edited by George993; Dec 7, 2019 at 03:15 PM.
So, if you use a wrench and manually lock the roof to the windshield, does it then complete the cycle? If so , then maybe the cylinder is weak. If not, then it's the switch.
Thanks, I've tried it a few times manually and updated this posting. Also I have removed all the trim so I can see all the latches/piston/switches operating at the top of the windshield.
I don't see any problems with the switches - S84/18 registers that the soft top reaches the windshield and S84/15 registers that the bow is fully open.
Once I lock it manually and I want to open the top, the cylinder unlocks ok (hydraulics work fine to unlock) and the top folds down nicely.
Now I'm 100% sure the problem is hydraulics - if I "help" the cylinder to lock with a wrench, it locks correctly and the cycle completes correctly.
Can the top lock cylinder fail in a way that it does not e lock by itself, but unlocks smoothly? Or is it a weak pump?
Thanks!!!
Last edited by George993; Dec 10, 2019 at 09:18 AM.
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