m1mmmm

Never any whining or scraping noises, but now that you mentioned this, about once a year something odd would happen when starting. The car would start but have a very rough idle that would shake the car. I would immediately turn off the ignition and restart the car and everything was fine, for another year or so. These episodes would never throw a code. Could this be part of the puzzle?

Rudeney

Did it ever throw a code? If not, then I suspect it was a precursor to the current problem and it's either CPS or fuel delivery. Those don't often throw codes.

m1mmmm

No it has never thrown a code. It happened so infrequently I had forgotten about it.

m1mmmm

Received notice today the dealership has installed a new Engine Control Unit.

Rudeney

Well, let's hope that solves the problems!

Rocman8

Hope thats it! That was a more common issue on the 07 with 273 but I'm pretty sure 272 was included in the bulletin as well. I'll try to find that bulletin again. Its an issue where the module doesn't ground the fuel pump relay and is very intermittent. I've only seen it 4 times on 07 273 engines.

m1mmmm

Will be getting my car back this week, so far it has been starting consistently since the ECU was installed. However, time will tell if that was the problem. I won't be comfortable driving it too far from home for the next few months, just in case.

Last summer my drivers side rear window actuator broke and I had it replaced. At some point in the last few months the rear passenger side window actuator broke and had that replaced this week while it was in the shop. I probably should have replaced both sides the first time, maybe it would have saved on labor costs. Both sides broke within 6-7 months of each other.

So for now the answer to my intermittent non-start issue seems to be a bad ECU. Too bad it took almost 5 months, a new fuel pump, new rear SAM, new drivers side door, and several headaches to figure out what was wrong. I will keep everybody updated in case this does not fix the problem. Thank you to everybody who helped with info and support with this journey. Take care - Mike.

m1mmmm

Thanks for that info Rocman. Did replacing the parts solve the problem or just set the new parts up for future failure?

m1mmmm

Since my original issue was intermittent non-starting with no codes being thrown and have had the fuel pump, rear SAM, and lastly the ECU replaced, I'm not sure the problem is fixed as I thought. I was supposed to get the car back last Tuesday but have not heard from the dealership. Not a good sign. BenzAMG99 started a post here titled "wouldn't start for five minutes" and Rodney replied saying a couple of the same issues were recently posted on another forum and the culprit turned out to be related to coil packs shorting and turning off the ECU somehow. Anyone experiencing intermittent non-starting should check out the post here titled "wouldn't start for five minutes." I don't know if it's possible to link posts but this is the only way I know how to refer members to that post. If anyone wants to comment here on this coil pack issue causing non-starting please feel free to do so.

In the "wouldn't start for five minutes" post it also mentions that plugged drain holes/tubes located at the bottom of the windshield could possibly flood parts located there and cause non-starting issues. That doesn't seem to be related to my issue but that is good to know especially if you park near or under trees, etc.

Rudeney

The ECU on the M272/M273 engines sits on top of the engine - the big silver heat sink looking thing protruding from the engine cover. Blocked drains won't affect it, but you still have other sensitive parts under the water collector, like the front SAM.

m1mmmm

Hi Rodney - Today came and went and not a peep from the dealership. Got a text Monday my car was "almost ready" and was going to detailing that afternoon and would be ready to pick up Tuesday. My guess is it didn't start again after the new ECU installed. I debated about contacting them to find out what is going on but decided I would wait to hear from them. After all, just because they put in another new part does not mean that solved the problem. Whatever does eventually fix it is going to take more than a few days to really know the issue is resolved.

This is a dumb question but I don't have my car here to look at, how does the water drain from below the windshield? Does that water collector have actual tubes or does it use channels like the channels around the trunk lid? I clean the trunk lid channel all the time, it gets dust/dirt in there, and an occasional leaf or two. I normally use a hose to wash out or air blower to clean out the front collector, I remember seeing the water drain out underneath somewhere near where the door and front panel meet. If the collector uses tubes how do you clean yours? I'm thinking it has to be a tube because I don't recall seeing the water run out like the channel in the trunk does. I need to check this more often, here in Texas at times we get lots of red dust/dirt that blows in, I see a lot of it in the back channel. Thanks for any advice on keeping the front water collector draining. Mike.

Btw, checked out those posts you mentioned on the other forum. Something to add to my list.

Rudeney

I know the right side and center of the water collector has tubes. I can't remember if the W209 is different from the W203, but on my C240, the left drain just runs down the inside of the fender - no tube. Of course this is the one closest to the E-box which contains the front SAM (and on my C240, the ECU). And it's always full of leaves. I just make it a habit to clean them when I wash the car.

Jerry Cooper

Just to add a note 2004 CLK55 AMG with almost same issue. Hot shutdown after long drive, not start, first try has fire but no fuel pressure runs till rail fuel gone then no start at all until cools down for several hours, codes indicate cannisters self check failed, but no leaks. two hours of trying to crank no fuel pump running. while waiting on tow in the middle of no where, hit the sos buttom, of which set off all kind of sounds, put key in to turn it off, it started, message tele aid defective, take to shop. HMMmm. drove home, car seemed a little short on power but smooth. Got home, went in and got a beer, ok lets try this, sure enough no start again. Drank more beer, went to sleep, next day starts again. This has been going on for months, new ecus 4 crank sensors coil packs. My thought is something in the fuel system self test failing when hot turns off the fuel pump, but cant find out why.

Yidney

Are you saying you tried four different crank position sensors? I'd say that rules that out.

m1mmmm

Sorry you are having a similar issue. Al my non-starts were with a cold engine. However, replacing the rear SAM and fuel pump did not fix my car, time will tell if replacing the ECU was the problem. As far as I know my CPS was not replaced, but if I continue to have intermittent non-starting I suppose they will have to replace the parts you have had replaced so far. I always keep my original parts when anything is replaced, you might want to do the same. I'm pretty sure I have a perfectly good original SAM and fuel pump sitting in my garage. My car is still being tested at the dealership, scheduled to pick it up Friday. It is not encouraging to hear your ECU replacement did not fix your problem. Please keep us posted on your repairs, progress. Maybe we can narrow down what the fix is for this issue so others won't have to go through this difficult situation. My car has been in the shop since early December. Thanks for posting! Take care - Mike.

Jerry Cooper

Car at this minute setting running in shop connect to Star computer. Trying to duplicate issue. Car hot turned of and it started right up. Next test is to shut down wait 10 minutes and see if heat soak causes issue. We update. Also going to do a reprogram on cooling suction fan and turn cut in temp setting setting down and possible speed percentage since this car was originally delivered in northern climate. Possible it just don't like our heat here. Thermal Dynamics Law, you can cool something, you must take the heat out to make it cooler.BTW when it fails to run happens, it starts like running out of gas and throws codes P0446 Evaporative Emission System Vent Control Circuit and P0451Evap Emission System Pressure Sensor/ Switch Range / Performance after motor dies. Try again throws misfire codes. P0301,302, 300 well da, no rail pressure from pump course going to misfire, next try nothing but crank no fuel or spark. Hours later or next day fires sometimes, once three days. The fuel self check has several parameters involved to actual run the check must meet to run. One that involves temp is that IAT must be below 113F??? I would think the self check would not be designed disable car, or do MB have something else in mind.

m1mmmm

Is the car new to your area? My issue never showed up on diagnostics. Never threw a code. Time between non-starting was usually a week or more and then took a few days before it would start again on its own. Normal weather here since December, mild no weather extremes. Good luck with your tests, hope you figure it out. Mike.

m1mmmm

The part you mention when it is not going to start it starts up like it is running out of gas happens maybe once or twice a year in my car, when it happens my car shakes and the engine is idling very roughly. I always shut the engine off immediately and it starts up fine when I turn the key again. It has done this for years, I never gave it much thought because it happened so infrequently but maybe it has something to do with the problem we both are having.

Rudeney

I thought I posted this here, but I don't see it, so I'll put it in now. I was reading another thread (here or on benzworld) where the car would not start and was blowing the ECU fuse when cranking. It turned out to be a shorted coil. That was on a xx55 AMG (ME 2.8) Then, another member had the no-start problem on an ME 9.8 system (xx350/xx550) and it turned out to be a shorted coil, but no blown fuse.

So, another thing to try might be to unplug the coils one at a time to see if one makes the engine start. If so, it may be shorted and causing ECU shutdown.

Jerry Cooper

Car has been in shop running for several hours yesterday and today. Weather much cooler today, no fail yet. Engine temp 200 with outdoor temp 65. Jumper relay on fuel pump to monitor with fluke, rail pressure steady at 57#. on 10 minute shutdown drops to 40. Mechanic suspects rear Sam has a weak solder connection in the board that opens when hot, and possible that connection makes again when cooled down. Hard to duplicate road condition in the shop floor.

m1mmmm

So have had the car back since last Friday and it is working ok. The shop Forman explained that he found something in the ECU that prevented the car from starting but it did not show up on diagnostics as a code, he found it in a value represented on the analysis that he knew was not correct. It was an explanation over my head.

Big mistake to have my door repaired in the dealers body shop and not inspect the car when they were done repairing the door. Instead it went directly back to service and the list of parts not related to the actual door repair that were either broken or damaged during the body shop repair was major. Someone placed a large piece of panel or something that had adhesive, I think, on my cloth top and the outline is clearly visible. The inside door panel was badly scratched during removal and replacement, and worst of all, the door panel speaker at the top was actually broken and someone stuck some kind of putty mix in there thinking I wouldn't notice? A rear window switch was pushed down into the panel, unusable. This was all damage done during the repair, but not the actual repair. That body shop used to be good but not so much now. Waiting on a date for all that damage to be repaired.

But it's good to have my car back. Hoping the ECU resolved the problem.

Rudeney

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Oh,and what did they do to solve the problem? Replace ECU or just re-code it?

m1mmmm

Thanks, and they replaced the ECU, no charge. Of course I had already paid for a fuel pump and rear SAM. Which I still have, always keep my old parts.

Rudeney

Glad to hear they covered the ECU. Keep us posted!

Jerry Cooper

Tracking issue down. Hot Start from Heat soak and operation of design of Bosch ME 2.8. Also pump system applies to early 2004clk55amg and c32amg as the $1200 fuel pump was only used in these models. later 2004 changed. On hot restart injecter rail and fuel pumps lock down start. Involves AMG ECU interaction. Even though 57 psi rail will run engine under normal condition, aftermarket pumps may not overcome heat and pressure of fuel in rail. Reviewed vapor pressure curve of gasoline between 80c and 100c. Found that delphi aftermarker pumps will not overcome pressure of heated fuel in rail 62psi. I could not find spec on the Bosch pumps. I did find that Worldparts via AdvancedAuto offers a Spectra pump that will fit in CLK tank with max output of 120psi and 60 gal per hour. Seems that Bosch Australia has aftermarket to rebuild MB saddle pump systems, where US does not. Use your calculator to convert flows of the bosch kits. Bosch 0 986 580 372.0 986 580 184 which additional info found on c321 amg forom