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My stock 02 Clk55 on Dyno Dynamics!

 
Old 07-18-2009, 02:24 AM
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupé
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Not a bad setup, Although most off the shelf ECU tunes don't really do much, you have to go with a much more aggressive software tune to really get any significant results, just get the most aggressive ECU tune you can b/c these W208 55s are way too detuned from the factory. Don't for get high flow 2nd cats & pulley to unlock even more of the engines power.

235/265 is the best tire setup in order to not disrupt the handling balance F/R. If you start running 275s in rear with 235s up front you being to dial in more understeer. Just make sure you get a very sticky tire like a Dunlap Z1.
Thanks for the advice.
I have ruled out the pulley because I have a big ol' Brax amplifier in the trunk driving Focal Utopia speakers and so I don't want to underdrive the alternator. I will keep the high flow 2nd cats in mind - I might first let the factory cats wear out.
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Old 07-18-2009, 04:39 AM
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AMS

Thanks for the advice and input.

(I sent you a PM a couple of days ago asking about RHD headers).
I'm definately getting headers and pulley to maximise the hp.
I'll post the figures again once the work has been done. Hopefully I'll make another 25hp. I'm trying to get to 400hp crank.
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:04 AM
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01 CLK55, 00 ML55
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Not a bad setup, Although most off the shelf ECU tunes don't really do much, you have to go with a much more aggressive software tune to really get any significant results, just get the most aggressive ECU tune you can b/c these W208 55s are way too detuned from the factory. Don't for get high flow 2nd cats & pulley to unlock even more of the engines power.

235/265 is the best tire setup in order to not disrupt the handling balance F/R. If you start running 275s in rear with 235s up front you being to dial in more understeer. Just make sure you get a very sticky tire like a Dunlap Z1.

When you say 235/265 is the best setup, shouldn't that depend on how much power is at the rear wheels?

IE, 235/265 might be great for 300whp, but I would think as you get closer to 325 or 330whp, maybe a 275 rear tire might help more w/ traction and potential oversteer. Does that make sense?
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by neilbo75 View Post
Thanks for the advice.
I have ruled out the pulley because I have a big ol' Brax amplifier in the trunk driving Focal Utopia speakers and so I don't want to underdrive the alternator. I will keep the high flow 2nd cats in mind - I might first let the factory cats wear out.
Our pulleys are not underdriven, they are stock diameter. It will not affect your alternator at all, you will still make the same electrical output you do currently (with did this specifically for audiophiles who want big sound systems among other reasons)
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by da_guitarist View Post
When you say 235/265 is the best setup, shouldn't that depend on how much power is at the rear wheels?

IE, 235/265 might be great for 300whp, but I would think as you get closer to 325 or 330whp, maybe a 275 rear tire might help more w/ traction and potential oversteer. Does that make sense?
To some degree yes, but it still affects handling and will dial in more understeer. Of course in any AMG you can always throttle oversteer with the torque but that's cheating .
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Old 07-19-2009, 06:46 PM
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupé
Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Our pulleys are not underdriven, they are stock diameter. It will not affect your alternator at all, you will still make the same electrical output you do currently (with did this specifically for audiophiles who want big sound systems among other reasons)
I thought underdriving was how modified pulleys "made" extra HP. If yours don't work that way, how do they improve performance?
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Old 07-19-2009, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by neilbo75 View Post
I thought underdriving was how modified pulleys "made" extra HP. If yours don't work that way, how do they improve performance?
Mass reduction is where 85% of the gains are to be had. Underdriving doesn't really do that much and it requires too many sacrifices to achieve its minimal narrow gains.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by neilbo75 View Post
Well, in my case, the "right" NA mods are shaping up to be the following:
-ECU and headers (Kleemann)
-LSD (Quaife)
-coilovers (KW V2)
-8.5 x 18 F and 10x18 R rims with wider, sticky tires (probably 235/265 - leaning towards Toyo R888s)

The work is scheduled to begin in a week's time at Kevin Bird's shop in the UK.



Neilbo,

I'll be very interested in your feedback regarding the Quaife ATB - will yours be modified? I didn't think they offered a 'drop in' unit due to the attachment point for the axles??

....and your impressions with the KW V2s.!!
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:58 PM
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupé
Chappy -

If all goes well, I can give you the best possible feedback in about six weeks- after having again driven Nurburgring with the AMG Driving Academy!

Having followed this board for a few years now, my "armchair" conclusion is that the Quaife ATB LSD is the single best mod you can do for a CLK AMG. Traction, not HP, is what we really need. I read an article in the UK-based Mercedes Enthusiast magazine a while back that gushed over the difference it makes on practically any big-engined modern Mercedes. The featured shop was Kevin Bird's. BirdsAuto's website talks up the Quaife quite well (albeit slanted towards BMWs). So I figure I've come to the right place.

Kevin was less enthusiastic about the KW coilovers, having had some dubious experiences putting them on a BMW. But they are the consensus choice, and the supplier supports our car, so it gets the nod.

Time will tell ....
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Chappy View Post


Neilbo,

I'll be very interested in your feedback regarding the Quaife ATB - will yours be modified? I didn't think they offered a 'drop in' unit due to the attachment point for the axles??

....and your impressions with the KW V2s.!!
chappy,
Quaife does make a drop in unit for the our cars, I just put one in blackbenzz car about 6 months ago.... I didnt have to modify anything
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackOnBlackCLK View Post
chappy,
Quaife does make a drop in unit for the our cars, I just put one in blackbenzz car about 6 months ago.... I didnt have to modify anything
Hey thanks. I didn't see it listed on their website....which unit (p/n) did you install?
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:45 PM
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C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Originally Posted by Jons95c36amg View Post
It was dynoed in 3rd gear. Also the car had to be in dyno mod(esp,abs)disabled. I removed one of two screens in the airbox. There is another one in the Maf sensor. Which is maybe good for 15hp.
OH Jeez! Jon,Dynoing the car in third gear will always give higher #'s. Most of us here dyno our cars in 4th gear not third. I still make your #'s in fourth gear. If I dyno my car in third gear the #'s would be ridiculously high. 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio gear that is the most common gear EVERYONE dynos their car in.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ProjectC55 View Post
OH Jeez! Jon,Dynoing the car in third gear will always give higher #'s. Most of us here dyno our cars in 4th gear not third. I still make your #'s in fourth gear. If I dyno my car in third gear the #'s would be ridiculously high. 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio gear that is the most common gear EVERYONE dynos their car in.
His bubble was burst in epic form anyway, not only is his car not the factory offshoot he was hoping for, but it actually makes less power than stock.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:35 PM
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Actually on Dyno Dynamics, difference between 3rd and 4th gear is minimal. Usually no more than 5HP on cars in this power range (if you have high HP supra that's a different story, but on AMGs rarely makes a big diff, but yes technically you should always dyno 1:1 if you can). On dynojet the difference can be much more drastic b/c of the inertia roller design vs. loading dyno design.

Either way, the results aren't bad, they are right on par with where the car should be normally for a car of the age. A minor tuneup will probably make up the difference and maybe even surpass stock spec. Very few cars run at 100% simply due to lack of proper scheduled maintenance so typically being down 2-5HP is not uncommon.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
Actually on Dyno Dynamics, difference between 3rd and 4th gear is minimal. Usually no more than 5HP on cars in this power range (if you have high HP supra that's a different story, but on AMGs rarely makes a big diff, but yes technically you should always dyno 1:1 if you can). On dynojet the difference can be much more drastic b/c of the inertia roller design vs. loading dyno design.

Either way, the results aren't bad, they are right on par with where the car should be normally for a car of the age. A minor tuneup will probably make up the difference and maybe even surpass stock spec. Very few cars run at 100% simply due to lack of proper scheduled maintenance so typically being down 2-5HP is not uncommon.
I'm not gonna agree with you on the gearing on a DD. I have seen cars vary in whp greatly on a DD when dynoed in third as opposed to 4th gear. I will agree that on a dynojet the difference in the #'s can be even more exaggerated 3rd gear vs 4th gear.

Bottom line is 4th gear is the gear to dyno in.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:44 AM
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Well from experience on M113 AMG V8s its roughly 5HP on both 210 & 208 AMGs. Maybe on might higher wHP cars such as the 65s & modded 55s the gap may grow but the % change is still roughly the same. Correct, 4th gear is best gear on the 722.6. 7speeds are a different story.
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:05 AM
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Lol, I was getting worried Jon. I havent seen any " I killed Cylinder Head's barbie scooter on my way to work" threads lately, I was getting worried that you had a tragic street racing related accident. But it seems all is back to normal, the bomb is blowing up in your face. I'll check back in a few days to laugh at newer posts.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AMS Performance View Post
In addition, DD dynos for mercedes front engine RWD autos have a drivetrain loss of 22%.
Actually with modern transmissions and lock-up torque converters it's usually 16-17.5% hp loss (dyno depending, of course). This has been the case with SRT-8s with the same transmission.

Originally Posted by BlackOnBlackCLK View Post
My 2001 CLK55 with headers exhaust and a cold air intake with stock tune only put 300hp 355tq to the wheels on a dyno dynamics dyno...... But it runs [email protected] 113.6!!!!
That trap speed is what a 400rwhp+ tuned SRT-8s does in good conditions. Very nice.

Originally Posted by ProjectC55 View Post
OH Jeez! Jon,Dynoing the car in third gear will always give higher #'s. Most of us here dyno our cars in 4th gear not third. I still make your #'s in fourth gear. If I dyno my car in third gear the #'s would be ridiculously high. 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio gear that is the most common gear EVERYONE dynos their car in.
Problem is, at least for my car, 4th gear tops out at 173mph which exceeds the speed limit on the dynos I've used. So 3rd gear has become the necessity.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Deuuuce View Post
Actually with modern transmissions and lock-up torque converters it's usually 16-17.5% hp loss (dyno depending, of course). This has been the case with SRT-8s with the same transmission.
No, WITH lockup its still 22% on dyno dynamics, thats how much loss there is on the loading dynos. On dynojet yes its roughly 18%, but DD is a totally different dyno and doesn't follow the same rules.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by neilbo75 View Post
Chappy -

If all goes well, I can give you the best possible feedback in about six weeks- after having again driven Nurburgring with the AMG Driving Academy!

Having followed this board for a few years now, my "armchair" conclusion is that the Quaife ATB LSD is the single best mod you can do for a CLK AMG. Traction, not HP, is what we really need. I read an article in the UK-based Mercedes Enthusiast magazine a while back that gushed over the difference it makes on practically any big-engined modern Mercedes. The featured shop was Kevin Bird's. BirdsAuto's website talks up the Quaife quite well (albeit slanted towards BMWs). So I figure I've come to the right place.

Kevin was less enthusiastic about the KW coilovers, having had some dubious experiences putting them on a BMW. But they are the consensus choice, and the supplier supports our car, so it gets the nod.

Time will tell ....
Neilbo....any updates? Did you get the KWs?? Quaife? Tune? Headers?
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:20 PM
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Sorry to dig up an old thread

does anybody know anything about those pulley pieces that were mentioned in this thread? Can they still be found? Maybe from a different mercedes/Chrysler?
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