MACHC5

I was just watching the RM Auctions on the Speed Channel and saw a beautiful Silver 1955 Gull wing cross the block at over $600K and they remarked it was one of 1200 make.

I am really acquiring a sense that we bought a piece of future Mercedes Car history... along the lines of a GM COPO 427 Car or a MOPAR 426 HEMI Car.

That said and thinking there are over 250 million people in the USA... I'm thrown back to the fact that only 350 of us will ever have these wonderful pieces of Mercedes Car History to enjoy and care for.

I've never hugged a tree... But I hug my little Silver car...!

MachC5

jrcart

You bring up a valid point, but there are tens of thousands of CLK 350's, 500's, 550's and 55's out there that look nearly the same as our BS. I would like to think that we have something special, and collectible, but the reality is that these will depreciate at a rapid rate. Possibly, in 30-40 years, you may get a slight uptick in value for a low milage, mint condition example, but these things will never see the kind of attention and demand that the Gull Wings do in the collector world.

I'm just going to drive and enjoy mine while I can. Everyone else should do the same.

alexander stemer

Predicting the future requires a better crystal ball than I've got, but I do see significant shrinkage in the "sky is the limit" performance goals of the current series of supercars.
Here is a very commonly held belief: As manufacturers devote thier resources to lighter cars, we will see much more focus on powerful small engines, coupled to electric motors, and the big push to the plug-in hybrid.
I don't have huge optimism that 7 liter V-8's are going to be an engineering priority. So, future supplies may be even more limited.
Recall, the smog-choked era of the 70's is what kicked off the stampede to the 60's muscle cars.
But, the initial oil crisis of the 70's killed the price of performance cars (which allowed me to buy an authentic Can-Am car for $18,000), but later reconstitution of adequate gas supplies allowed the market for thse cars to explode.
So, near-term depreciation of our cars is a near-certainty. But, the gull wing also had early depreciation. I'm old enough to recall my high school girlfriend's dentist dad using one as a daily driver.
As long as I have my big honking V8 BS in the garage, I can probably adapt to an oversize slot car as my commuter vehicle. And, it may take 4 decades to determine the significance attached to this generation of cars. Anybody watch Barret-Jackson? I think there were once more camaro's and mustangs than there are current MB's. It seems that 20X the initial price is now the going price. Those cars are much simpler to maintain and restore, but it does demonstrate how time can heal all wounds. AS

MACHC5

JRCART, Both of us both know HEMI Cuda's and COPO Camaro's look more like regular Cuda's & Camaro's then our CLK63 Black Series ever look like the regular CLK's... So what was that point your promoting.......

Now your car... that is being modified from original (and not by the factory) may be... on the loosing side of future value to anyone other then yourself... Just my opinion.

MachC5

jrcart

I was not promoting any point, I simply stated that I don't think that the BS is going to have any major significance in the car collector world. Believe me, I would like to think otherwise, but I am being a realist. This is just my opinion, I am a collector, but not a classic car collector. I am in the market for a Plymouth Superbird and/or a 1969 Camaro Pace Car, so I have been doing my homework on these two specific cars. I do have a little bit of knowledge about 60's and 70's muscle cars. If you want to try to call me out I'm going to do the same! For you to compare a BS, which there are 500-600 world wide, with a COPO Camaro you are NUTS! COPO's where built by the dozens...not hundreds. There were 54 1967 COPO Cameros built (including prototypes)! 68 1968 COPO Camaros built! If you want to talk COPO Chevelles the number are even lower! You want to talk Yenko's...even less were built (in the teens)! Most of those have SCCA and NHRA racing pedigrees to go along with them as well. Seeing that none of the BS's will have any racing pedigrees attatched to them with further prove my point. As for your comment about mine losing it's value faster than your because of the mods I am making, you are probably correct...but again, I bought this thing to drive it, not to worry about how much it is going to be worth in 30-40 years, when I will be to old to care anyhow!

MACHC5

I've really got to remember to stop engaging in these type of discussions after making an observation.

As I always get beat-up by those who bring more opinions with them... Then I brought...

MachC5

jrcart

MACH5, you appear to be the one on the offensive here. In my initial responce I stated in my first sentence that I agreed with you by saying " you bring up a very valid point", and you did. In that responce did not attack or critize you in any way. I just voiced my OPINION as to why I feel the BS will never become a true classic or a highly sought after collectible. It is a niche vehicle, that alone does not make it collectible. Believe me, I own one, I would like for nothing more than to have this thing start to go up in value, but I am a realist, and I just don't see it happening.

By the way, I brought facts along to support my opinions!

MACHC5

OK... You WIN

erol/frost

For us initiated MB-fans we see the BS as a niche-, very highperformance car, whereas the general population, Joe Blow down the street, just sees the 63 as "another CLK with some spoilers". And therein lies the problem. The gullwing was a paramount MB. Sure it was based on regular, for the time, MB-tech but it was draped in some spectacular shapes which some 50 years later still boggles the mind. It is truly one of a kind. And that can`t be said of the CLK 63 BS.

MACHC5

Erol/Frost

Have you had a chance to see the new AMG Gull wing prototype.?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...ing-successor/

http://photocarsonline.com/blog/2007...new-gull-wing/

erol/frost

Just a few photochops which have been circulating on the net. You have all seen those. Not sure if any conclusions can be drawn from those regarding it`s appearance. It still is a few years out. Why do you ask?

MACHC5

Just added two links for those who have not seen it..

jrcart

I had not seen either of those concepts...I like the red one, where can I send the check? Wow! If they build that I'm first on the list!

david_101

is what i believe marks a collectible car.

someone in the family has one of the old MBs you were discussing. he shows it whenever possible, and most every time gets an offer for it. the last was in 2007 from a russian fellow who very earnestly said to him, "name your price." well, the answer was, "thank you, but it's not for sale."

that car was important at the time for its materials and singularity. as much as i like the CLK63BS, i don't believe it's so different that it will become historically important.

that's not to say it isn't an AWESOME machine. it is to say that i wouldn't get one in hopes of it becoming a collector's item.

MACHC5

Agree or disagree... I go back to my opening statement, and the fact that the CLK63 Black Series is a part of Mercedes History going forward. Like the 92'-94' 500E's are.

And if the definition of Collectible being used by others is will it pull high dollars later in life... only time will tell.

I'm pretty sure in 1955... that people who bought 300SL Gull wings where not thinking of them as Collectibles.

JDB

JRCart,
I would just like to say that I am in AWE of what you are doing to your car. You have definitely taken the car to another level in performance and done it in a way that appears to be done with purpose and style.

This type of modification seems to be entirely in line with the sort of bespoke modifications that you can see taking place at AMG in Affalterbach. Unforturnately, they won't even discuss ANY modification to a U.S. VIN vehicel due to all of the legal problems.

It seems that all of us here love our Black Series cars. Some want to keep them bone stock. Maybe some even want to wrap them up in a nitrogen-filled bag and never drive them. Others want to derive their enjoyment by driving the wheels off of them.

There are a myriad of ways that each of us derive pleasure from these cars. I'm sorry to see that the wide range of appeal of these vehicles seems to be causing some conflict amongst some of the forum members.

Personally, Jrcart, my hat is off to you for exploring the limits of a vehicle that is already imressive in its stock form. God knows what kind of a performance monster is going to emerge from Evosport by the time you are through! Hope you can hire a helicopter and a film crew to document your drive to Arizona so you will be able to let us in on a little bit of your FUN!

Congratulations on an amazing car!

Happy Motoring!
JDB

Jim Brady

The collectibles seem to have two things in common, low production numbers and horsepower. I think about the 69 Cobra Jet I sold in 72 to buy an Olds Starfire. Or the 66 350 Shelby GT to buy a 67 volkswagen cause my insurance was too high. Who knew those cars would bring mega $'s. I think it's buying back your youth. Some young kids drooling over a CLK63 BS. I think you need to enjoy these cars today and not keep them in a garage to pet them.
Jimmy

573WHPCLS

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure there are a handful of Black Series' sitting in a nice, comfy, climate controlled garage that is nicer than some of our living rooms as part of someones beloved collection. Hats off to them, if they feel this car has a significant value or meaning to them, Amen. Hell, I watched Barrett Jackson and I saw some fool pay $1,000,000 for the first production 2009 Corvette ZR1, that over 10X the retail value. I don't care what the serial/vin number is on that car, it will never be worth $1,000,000, but on that particular day someone felt it was.

As someone else stated earlier, non of us have a crystal ball. If I had to make a bet as to if the Black will be come a highly sought after collectible, I would have to bet no. It's just a marketing ploy, a good one at that, that some of us happily fell for.

alexander stemer

The ZR1 is a bit different, as $900,000 will count as a charitable donation, so that knocks about $400,000 off the price. It will probably also have a business display purpose, and has cachet as being #1, owned by the guy who has the first existent Corvette (#3, but 1 and 2 don't exist)

I don't disagree with your assesment, but the circumstances are uncertain. Afew years before I bought a 1974 Pantera L, I wasn't quite affluent enough to aquire a Ford GT40 (street model) available for $12,000. The Pantera cost me $10,400, and now may be worth 3 or 4 times that. The GT40 is worth 50 times the price inthe early 70s.

A few years later, I passed up a perfect GT350 (but took on a Lola T163). The GT350 was $5,000 asking price. That must be worth 20 or mor times that today.

I think more likely than not, BS depreciation will reach a floor that is somewhat higher than many similiarly expensive cars, as rarity will count there. But, it may never rise from that floor. In that way, it may be more like a BMW 850 CSI, of which only 200 were imported. That car cost $104,000 new in 1994, and today can be bought with relatively low miles for $40,000+. That compares to a standard 850 I that might bring $15,000.

As I've said before, it's irrelevant to me, cuz I'm not selling. AS

573WHPCLS

Alexander Stemer

You do bring up a good point about the charitable donation write off. My point was that any car, on any day can have different meaning and different value to different individuals. I am trying to find a 1985 Ford Escort GT turbo (preferably white), yes you read that correctly I am looking for a Ford Escort. This car has signifigance to me. It was my first car, my father and I went out one saturday and he told me I could pick any car that was $12,000 or less. So after test driving about a dozen cars I settled the 2 year old Escort and it was actually really fast, with insane torque steer. I would pay a crazy amount of money for that car. It too was very rare, only 250 of them were made, and I'm sure most of them are in the scrap yards by now.

I am envious that you owned a Pantera. That car has signifigance to me as well. It was the first "Supercar" I ever saw in person, or rode in. I was 9 years old and my parents just relocated to a suburb of Chicago, on the day we were moving in I was outside and heard this loud rumbling, just as I looked over I noticed my neighbor backing this awsome silver/grey car out of his garage. I had no idea what it was, but I knew I liked it. Til this day I credit that car for my deep passion for automobiles. Maybe I will ad one of those to my list of cars to be aquired.

alexander stemer

What neighborhood? Mine was silver too. (serial number 7035)AS