bigali88

Hey guys, well I have been lurking this forum for quite a while. I am interested in the clk bs but the price is simply just too high for me. Well, I went to the dealership to take a look at the car and ended up going for a test drive. The car was absolutely amazing and handled like a dream. The exhaust note was also very impressive for an oem application especially the off throttle burbles that occured durring engine braking. I wasn't too impressed with the transmission though as it was not as quick to shift as I would have liked, but other than that I was truely impressed. Hopefully I will be able to pick one of these up in a couple of years once depreciation takes effect. I was absolutely shocked by the depreciation that is expected on these cars. The dealer gave me a 3 year residual value of 40 percent!!!! I was astonished by this and frankly so was he. I thought I would post just to let you guys know what the expected depreciation on these cars is, and to inform anyone else interested in picking one up. I guess sometimes in life overall enjoyment is more important than the financial sensibility, but I don't think I can stomach 60 percent depreciation. Anyway, these cars are truly special and I hope you guys enjoy them in good health

JamE55

The CLK 63 BS will depreciate but not as bad as the V12 65's will. The number of CLK BS units that were made from what i understand were only 350so it's a limited production car.

DFW01E55

Unfortunately you can find 95 of them (including new) on autotrader. That seems a bit high, but so what, it makes it less expensive for those of us who are waiting.

To the OP, if you want assets that only go up, buy a house. Everyone knows that real estate never goes down!

user z478747

actually, there is only 83 on autotrader if you cull the regular clk63s out. still a large number considering a low production run of 350 cars. i agree with JamE55, i don't think it will be nearly as bad as the 65 cars. 60% would mean a bs for ~$55k in 3 years, i don't see that happening. sounds like you might recoup some of your money at the end of the lease if you were to buy it and resell it?

jrcart

Who cares about depreciation? 99% of all cars depreciate. If you have to look that close at the numbers you can't afford the car anyway. I also think you were givin some bad info, I leased (vs buy) my Black Series for business tax purposes, I will buy the car at the end of the lease, the buy out figure is $72,000 and change, that is about 53% by my math.

I'm guessing the salesman was trying to sell you (lease) the car and trying to slip a low residual value past you, this can result in more profit for the dealership.

bigali88

I know that the lease residual is accurate because A: I told the salesman before the test drive that I could not buy today, and I think he took me on the test drive more to try to sell me the engine in hopes of getting me excited about the c63 amg. After the test drive we went back to his office were I asked him what the residual was. Initially he said it was 53 percent, where I was still shocked and couldn't believe it was that low. He said hold on let me double check and left for about 10 minutes. When he came back he told me it was actually 41 percent, for a 36 month lease with 12k annual miles. He even told me it would ridiculous to lease the car because of the low residual. He also said that they had 5 of them on the lot, and that they were not selling. I think I could have probably got 8-15k off msrp, but I didn't want to waste his time because even at 120k financing was too expensive. Again if money is not an object (which for most people buying a 140k car it shouldn't be) who cares about depreciation.

SteveL

I would expect all of the cars to be built by now. I wonder how many of the 350 are actually in owners hands who plan to keep them at least for a while.

In the past couple of months since I have been watching the prices, they really haven't moved down.

Time will tell if 53% or 40% is correct but I'd be surprised if after 3 years someone is willing to sell their car for 60% off the original MSRP. I don't imagine too many people will actually lease the car so these won't show up very often at auction as lease returns.

BelaMeca

Ok so what you are trying to say is>
You knew from begining on that:
You can't afford this Car,Lease or Buy.
You definately did not want to buy it or lease it especialy not on that day.

Conclusion:
I love it how you wasted the Sales persons Time,and actually took it as far him leting you test drive the BS.

You are my idol!!!
I'm off to a MB Dealer!

bigali88

If the lease residual was better I would consider leasing this. My choices were to either buy an e92 m3 or c63 amg or lease an m6 or clk 63 bs. I went to the dealer with the intention of just checking the car out and getting a residual. I spoke with the salesman for about 10 minutes about what kind of cars I am looking at etc... He started talking about the c63 and the 63 engines in general and asked me to go for a test drive. I wouldn't call it wasting time because A: I am going back when the c63 amg comes out to comapre it against the e92 m3 and B: if the clk 63 bs didn't have a 40 percent residual it would probably be in my driveway right now.

user z478747

Maybe a dumb question b/c we never lease cars but, do all dealers quote the same residual values? I may be biased but 40% just seems unrealistically low?

jrcart

My Black Series is one of the first 12 sent to North America, I took delivery the first week of September, maybe at that time they were projecting a better (higher) residual value, now since the luxury auto market has slowed slightly as has the demand for the Black Series, maybe that drove the residual down. All I know is mine was sold (leased) to me at 53%, I'd be happy to fax you my paperwork to prove it.

jrcart

They way I understand residual values is that the bank, in my case Mercedes Benz Financing sets the residual value. They have to "predict" what the car will be worth on 36 months, or whatever your lease term is. If they quote you a high residual value it benifits your monthly payment because you are really only paying for the the portion that you use/drive. If they over residualize the car they are the ones holding the bag in 3 years when you turn in the car, they are the ones "upside down". The individual dealerships play with the numbers to boost their profit. They will try to clain a lower residual even though they got quoted a higher one by the finance company, this is just another way the stealerships make money. No different than them buying down points on a finance purchase. They get a person approved at 5% and sign them up for 6-6.5% and they get a kick back from the bank for the higher rate. The 40% he was quoted was very low, I promise the salesman was trying to pull a fast one.

alexander stemer

I tried to post yesterday, but somehow it didn't appear, so here it is again.
I don't think any of us want our cars to depreciate rapidly, but I am one of those people for whom it is immaterial, as I hope to keep the car so long and put on so may miles that final residual will be very small anyway.

That being said, I don't see it as significantly different from my 996ttX50 that was appraised by the dealer at $$43,000 with 45,000 miles. With an initial purchase price of $143,000, that is 30% residual value.

I have heard (and I know it's true because a dealer told me so) that some who lease thru a business add miles they don't need to drastically REDUCE residual value, to make subsequent anticipated purchase much cheaper. As the lease cost is theoretically pre-tax dollars, low residual can be seen as a desirable tactic.

Finally, I suspect the current decline in price reflects the overall economy, as well as a market perception of the BS as either being more expensive than cars seen as competitive, or less attractive than other exotics similarly priced. The latter is probably a reflection of less 'wow" factor in outward appearance, and the underlying CLK platform.

As someone who had the option of buying other cars, I obviously concluded that the BS was a more exciting and more usable solution for my needs. I think some buyers may yet come to that realization. For those who do and pick one up at a deep discount, I will tip my hat in acknowledgement of a choice well made. For those who miss the opportunity to own one due to very common misperceptions, so sorry. The car is special, and is worth whatever one pays for it, as there isn't anything out there that duplicates its capabilities.
I can't wait for the opportunity to improve my driving skills in this true driver's car. This is the "anti-GTR" in every respect. AS

SteveL

The owners/sellers of the cars will ultimately decide the depreciation. With such a small number of owners, only 350 in the US, if the cars are hard to come by and owners refuse to sell them at a low price, the cars won't depreciate as quickly as if people just want to get out of the car. With E class AMGs for instance there are just too many of them and they build more of them every year. The Black Series is different in that only 350 are available for the US market and they are not building any more or at least for quite some time and if they do it will be on a different chassis. With such a limited number of cars available, the normal depreciation rules shouldn't apply but I guess we'll see.

If the economy didn't absolutely suck I think things could be significantly different. At some point however, the economy will get better and guess what, there will still only be 350 cars available and only a subset of those will be available for sale.

DannyM383

well there's gonna be less than 350 I know theres 349 for sure because I saw one wrecked here in houston.

norb

A dealer has 5 CLKBS's?

jrcart

I feel sorry for the people that paid $15,000 over list for thiers and the poor souls paying $15-$20k over list for R8's and $10,000 over for GT-R's. Talk about being upside down! In a year the GT-R is going to be yesterdays news when the Spec-V arrives and they are pumping out GT-R's like Altimas. Suckers!

Vader13

There is one for 138K at my dealer, Im gonna test is on Sat..
TOLL ROAD!!!!!!!

SteveL

Don't do it unless you are serious about buying one. I don't think I'm the only one who had to buy one after driving it. It drives like no other MB I've had a chance to drive.

JamE55

HOI?

Jim Brady

This thread title is really misleading. If you base value on the bank or finance residual you missed what this car is about. The BS is so different from any other models in the MB lineup that the bean counters have no idea what the market will be so they've factored in the the worse scenario. My bet is this car will beat the residuals by a mile due to low production numbers, unique build, horsepower and pent up demand. My recommendation is buy and hold.

jrcart

The bottom line is, if you like the car and can afford it, buy it. You should not be worried about the value, they are all going to depreciate. Just buy something you love and enjoy it. CARS ARE NOT INVESTMENTS...at least not any of the ones you can walk into a dealership and buy new.

jrcart

I just spent that last hour researching "newer" collectible cars from the 80' and 90's. Sorry to break to you guys but there are no MB's on any of the lists I saw on numerous sites. Here are a few of what I did find. Several Ferarri's, Testarossa, F40, F50, BB, the Lambo Countach, Buick Grand National and GNX, Pontiac Trans AM GTA Turbo, Corvette ZR1, GMC Syclone and Typhoon trucks, Dodge Viper R/T10, even the lame duck Alfa Romeo Spyder was on the list...the BMW M3 Ultra Light made the list, No Mercedes, not even the AMG Hammer, but I did see the Hummer H1 on a few lists. Several of these cars are less than 20 years old and it stated some of them are already fetching more than their sticker prices when they were new with the Buick GNX leading the way, mint models are going for $75,000 plus at auctions one site stated.

Gosh, look at all those american cars that we love to hate on the list. Ponder that.

The fact that the BMW M3 UL made a couple lists may be a good sign for the Black Series. That M3 is only about 11 years old, but they were very rare and a lot of them got trashed on race tracks.

Chappy

Why isn't this on the list??:
CLK GTR

These were made since 2000, so they wouldn't have shown up on the list.
CLK GTR Roadster
CLK DTM
CLK DTM cabrio

80s/90s are still too recent/new for most MBs, excepting perhaps the W124 500E/E500 and the 300CE cabrio/E320 cabrios, which still hold values solidly in the mid-high 20s. Down the road, I suspect pristine examples of the W124 coupes will do well too.

I suppose it depends on the decade....Gullwings could be had in the 60s for less than sticker....

Heck - 40 years from now, an SLR or CLK63 BS could be "up there" on he collector list.

jrcart

I would have guessed the CLK GTR would have made one of the lists but, the sites and lists I viewed made no mention of it, maybe it's too rare. The CLK DTM was not out in the 80's or 90's, therefore would not be listed at what I was looking at. Al the american cars really suprised me. I did not think there were many desirable american cars made aftert he 60's and early 70 muscle car era. Once you see the cars on the list then you say " ya, those were all great cars" I still remember the first time I drove a GMC Syclone...fast fast fast.