sprins

That's going to be the GL63 AMG with new bi-turbo V8, as I've been told...

sprins

smart counts for Daimler Benz as Mini counts for BMW for fuel milage. That's probably the sole reason they brought smart to the US. Effectively, smart already is a Mercedes Benz.

jrcart

The way I understand it they will not be combined after 2012, they will both be there own seperate entities, EPA and NHTSA websites have all the info in detail. Everything changes after 2012, SUV's will be lumped into passanger vehicle numbers, as of right now they are alllumped in with vans and light trucks. Get ready for some real exciting vehicles being introduced so that EPA 35.5mpg averages can be attained. Honda, Nissan and KiaOne the plus side we are going to start seeing lots of turbos and SC's, but limited access to the electronics/ECU's means they will all be stale and boring with no possibilities of tuning.

sprins

If different brands in one corporation aren't allowed to compensate for each others emissions anymore, then a rebranding of smart to Mercedes-Benz is imminent. Same goes for Mini, although BMW is currently much 'greener' compared to Mercedes Benz.

Brands like Jaguar and Aston Martin will really have a challenge under these new regulations...

jrcart

Lambo, Porsche, Bentley and Bugati are owned by Audi AG/Volkswagen Group and from what I understand they will not be lumped in with Audi and VW's mpg figures. Even if you lumped in the most fuel efficient brands from Audi AG/VW Group (VW and Audi) it would be impossible to acheive a net average of 35.5mpg. I'm not sure how Bugati is going to average 35.5mpg considering they offer one vehicle which gets less than 8mpg. Think about it, why else would Porsche be so focused on Hybrids, the 2011 Cayanne S Hybrid was avaiable before the non-hybrid Cayanne S, and Porsche is already kicking *** with their 997 GT3 hybrid, the average Porsche owner could car less about fuel economy or MPG but they are building, racing and marketing these cars because they have to if they want to continue to sell cars in the U.S. As for Jaguar, they have already released info on some small displacment supercharged engines which look promising.

It's obvious that Obama and the EPA have not taken a serious look at the numbers because I think it's going to be impossible to acheive (no different than the rest of Obama's visions I guess)

Let me put it into terms everyone will understand, for every S 550 (15/19 mpg city/hwy) that Mercedes sells in the U.S they will have to sell 7 vehicles that get better than 39 mpg and according to the MB USA website Mercedes currently offers ZERO vehicles that can attain mpg rating of 35mpg or greater. How about a GL 550, try 9 cars that average 39mpg or greater. If the EPA sticks to their guns we all better get ready for the 2014 136hp AMG Bluetec A Class...enjoy

WTDoom

wow you have some strange laws coming your way .

is this country wide and anyone have a link with more information please ? this sounds terrible

good luck ...

sprins

It all depends how this law is going to be enforced how we'll see the lineup of the carmakers change. Either strict (bye bye AMG) or by penalty (gas guzzler tax 2.0).

In Europe emissions regulation is also getting a lot stricter. Yet over here they opt to just tax the hell out of politically incorrect behavior (like Black Series). So the Bugatti's of this world just get more expensive, but not illegal. For now... But my guess is this will remain due to Germanies interest in the car industry in the European Union.

BTW, I'm also interested in links to sites with info about these regulations out of professional interest.

jrcart

Here you go, links to both governement and private sites, let me know if you need more links.

Feel free to Google keywords such as 2012 EPA mpg mandates, 2012-2025 EPA CAFE, or Obama 2012 MPG mandate.


This first one is the best and easiest link to understand, everything is spelled out.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/othe...cafe_stds.html


http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677...-fuel-standard

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...040101412.html

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rul...A_04012010.pdf

jrcart

Here is the "New Model" being shown in LA, the 2012 CLS63, 5.5 L twin turbo V8 544 hp and 590 ft lbs tq, it says there is also an "AMG Performance Package" option that bumps the output to 571hp and 664 ft lbs tq, if it's true that's not bad...At least it's not an A Class LOL

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...U3D0E_pOlL1GQw

GiZzO

Upsetting I would go to the show just for the new C coupe AMG.

E coupe is too soft looking this looks great its like like the C-class and SLK had a baby. Its got hips like the SLK black.

thebishman

Doesn't a manufacturer have to produce a specific number of vehicles per year, (100,000?), before they are subject to any fuel economy standards? In this way, small auto makers, like Jaguar; Lambo, AM, etc. can continue to produce and sell their limited production vehicles to crazies like us who love them all. We in turn can then spend more on fuel tax which is very fair imho. lol

Bish

LZH

The fuel tax will be passed along to the consumer if and when it ever happens

thebishman

I was actually referring to the fact that 'we' will spend more on fuel tax already due to the cars average economy being about 14mpg! lol

Bish

jrcart

You bring up a very good point, about 25% of the price of a gallon of gas is local, state or federal tax, so by eventually doubling the average fuel mileage for vehicles they would be cutting their revenue in half.

Last month the national average for a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline was 2.59 per gallon, there is a $.184 per gallon fed tax, the state of IL (where I live) has a $.258 per gallon tax as well as a $.06 per gallon county tax, that's over $.50 per gallon going to big brother so it makes you wonder why they are shooting themselves in the foot with these types of mandates, what do they have up their sleeve? They are not going to take any money out of their own pockets so look for another HUGE gas guzzler take or HUGE increases in plate and sticker fees.

thebishman

I would bet on a large increase in federal tax per gallon; something like 25c/gallon. IF that went only to repair the terrible roads we have to live with here in the USA I wouldn't mind paying it to be honest.

Bish

JDB

But don't forget, you are presuming that the tax money collected will be spent wisely and efficiently.

That requires quite a leap of faith.

I don't think the track record is very good on this one.

JDB

jrcart

Fact: Less than 25% of the 18.4 cent per gallon federal gasoline tax goes back to supporting and maintaining highway infrastructures, makes you wonder where the rest of it goes The State of Illionois (where I live) has several toll roads, in 2009 those toll roads generated over $700 million, in addition to that Illinois has one of the highest state gasoline taxes in the country, you would think we would have some amazing roads here...nope, old, bumpy and filled with potholes and crappy repair jobs. The govenment just keeps spending and they use excuses like "greenhouse gases" and "global warming" to scare us all into believing thier crap and thats how they slide these taxes and stupid laws past the masses.

thebishman

I am under no illusions guys as to how an increased federal gas tax might be spent. If you notice I capitalised the 'IF' in my comment. Perhaps I didn't stress it enough! lol

Bish

WTDoom

thanks for the links , very interesting and a little worrying .

WTDoom

c class coupe pics leaked , a black version rumoured ...

WTDoom

heres the c coupe . black series incoming !!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Dsm...feature=relmfu