MACHC5

There are a few people here on the forum that have had their cars enhanced by going two different routes of either Normally Aspirated or Super Charged.
I'd like to hear what is the biggest perceivable difference in daily driving and racing.

Lastly, in your mind's eye what is the best bang for the buck... NA or SC'd...

Jim

jrcart

As you know I started of the NA route, I did the longtubes, intake mods, pulley and tune. Those mods really woke the car up and got the power output to a little over 500whp.

Last December I was made aware of the Weistec SC and decided to go that route. I kept my longtubes but all the other "old" mods were ditched for the most part. The Weistec blower makes a completely different kind of power, it starts lower in the revs and builds and pulls harder and revs faster. Obviously I took things to the extreme and I think I have their stage 2+ or stage 3 and my car is now making 660whp.

Their stage 1 kit retails for close to $15k and can make 550*whp (*525-550) depending on fuel/tune/pulley combo you choose) which is about 40 more whp than I have seen out of any header/tune/intake car with a much nicer curve and about 100 more ft lbs tq. The torque is the difference, the torque is what sets this apart from a header/tune modded NA car. Yes, the SC will cost you about twice what a set of LT's, Pulley, Intake and tune will run you but IMO it's worth every penny. Had this system been available all along I would have never messed around with all the other stuff, I would have just bolted up the SC right off the bat and saved myself alot of money in the long run. Hopefully some other Weistec customers will chime in becasue I know there are lots of their systems out there on cars in the publics hand in varying states of tune from SC only, to LT and SC only all the way up to what Earl and I are running on our cars.

There are some other nice things that come along with the Weistec that you can't really put a price tag on such as the sound, My car now sounds like an F-18 fighter jet, and IMO that's priceless.

Jiaim

... double post ...

Jiaim

with sc you can make power without bleeding ears, which a very important point imho for a DD.

WTDoom

The driving Characteristics are very different . Try both , personally I prefer NA every time .

Maverick1975

I concur with Jim's comments 100% I like this supercharger so much that i now have 3 weistec supercharged 63s. I beleive the benefits are several, more power with less modding than any other route. its one install, rather than having to do headers, cams, ported heads, exhaust, pulleys etc. The noise level is entirely acceptable and not excessive which can be the case if you go the headers+exhaust route. The sound of the supercharger from the outside as the car passes you is something truly incredible to behold. The accessibility of the power increase in unbeatable, with a flat torque curve between 2000-almost 6000rpm. The CLK63 BS supercharged is the most fun i could possibly imagine driving a road car, and the other 2 arent far behind it.!
I think surely that the supercharged route is the best hp/$ spent way to mod these cars.

jrcart

You've got 3 of them now LOL? I knew you had 2, but 3? I will be putting a Weistec on my new C63 Black Series when it arrives.

I prefer to go with the "all of the above" when modding. Headers, tune, heads, blower, etc. That being said if I had to chose between the LT/tune/intake or the Weistec by itself I would take the Weistec all day.

Jeff M

I hear that, once you go the piecemeal route, you find you wasted your time by not just going to a full and complete setup from the start. Unless you only want just a few upgrades, or like it loud, then that is for you. In contrast to what I said about "wasting your time", its easy to add one upgrade (headers), then another, then another, and once you go through enough mod'd cars (whatever brand/$$) you realize you are getting tired of that route, and find it's just better to get a full turn-key max hp setup, and start enjoying it from day one . That and something jrcart forgot to mention, plenty of fun in stock M156 form to light-em at will in 1st and 2nd gear, but on the highway in 3rd or 4th at 60mph to (what was it jrcart?) and do the same, that is a thrill that only feeling it can explain!!!

SC your upcoming C63 Black too eh? I hate you just kidding , will look forward to the blow by blow on how it all goes .

betrezra

The only possible drawback to the S/C route could be for the hard core road racer, I don't know about the weistec setup, but many people have had issues with boosting a car that was n/a from the factory and running it hard for 20-30 min track sessions.

Many of my roadrace friends are fans of strokers in n/a form for road racing (less wgt, simplicity, less heat soak, etc...).

I'm not saying a boosted car can't perform on the road track, but you have to have a well thought out setup wrt cooling, fuel delivery, oiling, etc.... I believe this is where any weakness of any combo will be found.

With all that said..... I would go with the boosted route for reasons stated above this post.

GL.

MACHC5

Guys,
With the Supercharger my biggest conceirn is the transmission living...

I installed a Magnacharger on my AWD 6.0 Denali and it's a fun vehicle to drive.
The supercharger kit even had ECU tuning to soften the shifts to help the transmission to live with the added horsepower.
After about 3 months into driving and enjoying the new found TQ & HP I found a way to fry 2nd gear on a local interstate.
I was following slower traffic and decided to floor it.... and when it went to the passing gear, the passing gear went...!

$5K later including some hardend input and output shafts the transmission lives...

Jim

jrcart

Yes, lots of trial and error, well not so much error just found something better. I literally have a pile of parts in one of my garages that have been installed and then un-installed, thousands of dollars worth of parts just sitting. Unfortunately the only way to figure out what works best is real world testing.

jrcart

You will have no problems with the trans, especialiy if you are only considering the Weistec stage 1, even if you squeeze 550whp (which you won't without headers) the trans and converter can easily handle the power and torque. I ran a 100 shot of nitrous on my car for over 2 years with no problems and then moved up to the full Weistec stage 2. Its also probably safe to assume my car gets abused more than most with both road course and drag strip use. I have made hundreds of runs with slicks at the drag strip, that is probably the hardest on a trans 0-600 ft lbs tq with no tire spin in a fraction of a second.

Just go with the Weistec, you will love it.
If you are planning on road racing on track days and you are concerned about heat let them know and they can get you the larger inter-cooler like I run and you will have no issues. They claim its not needed for their stage 1 but if you're concerned just spend the extra few hundred for the added insurance. I have had no heat related isseues with mine.

ecampbell

Agreed they are very different but I will take instant throttle response any day!

Nachtsturm

I am nowhere in the realm of pocketbook freedom as some in this thread, but I noticed it was said the stage 1 is 15k.

Lets say head header/intake/tune combo is 5k. So for additional 10K I get 40whp? Doesn't seem worth it to me.

500whp N/A sure sounds good to me.

That's a decent amount more than us 55 N/A guys achieve after supercharging.

Maverick1975

I have only put a couple of thousand kilometres on my Black Series since intalling the SC but have had zero transmission issues. I have taken it on a road course for multiple hard 30 minute sessions over a hot day and had zero issues, ditto for my supercharged C63. I think if Jim's car is still going fine after all he has done to it then that speaks volumes for the robustness of the transmission hardware.

I have no doubt that anyone who puts a Weistec supercharger in their 63 will wonder how they ever got by without it. Its simply transforms the vehicle.

Maverick1975

I dont know anyone that supplies headers + exhaust + intake + tune for $5k installed. As far as i know, Evosport or MHP charge closer to $8 or 9k for all that, and dont even mention renntech, vath. From my experience, short of porting heads, cams or other 'exotic' mods, the best that can be squeezed out of the 63 from 'just' headers + tune + exhaust is about 560 - 570hp at the crank. In 4 or 5 years on this forum i have yet to see anyone demonstarate anything close to 600hp at the crank from headers+tune+exhaust. Weistec stage 1 will get you 60-70 hp higher than that to 630hp, all independently verified too. And i havent even mentioned the unbelievable torque that this mod achieves, flat from 2500-6000rpm. As Carol Shelby says, horsepower sells cars but torque wins races. Weistec will give you both in spades. I am may sound like a total fanboy but the is no denying the efficacy or value of supercharging the 63

WTDoom

The best for tuning the 63 engine with just h , t and e in my opinion are MKB in Germany . They will get you 580 ps with full exhaust , headers , different filters and a few other bits . Map is custom to each car / Independently verified , with 2 year warranty and FULL TUV !

But you are right that comes in at WELL over the 5 k mentioned above .

Maverick1975

Correct!

MKB was over US$20k last time i looked last year. I have looked at every option possible over the years, Carlsson, Brabus, Kleeman, Evosport, Vath Supersprint MHP MKB Cargrpahic etc etc. Weistec comes out on top.

jrcart

First off, can a good tunes, longtubes and intake be purchased for only $5000 these days??? If so that's a hell of a bargain. I thought that stuff would be in the $8-10k range. That being said whether its $5k or $8k you are comparing apples and oranges in regards to power delivery, there might only be a 40-50 hp difference but the curve is completely different and the torque with the SC is off the charts compared to the header/tune/intake route.

Let me make one other thing clear, the 500whp I quoted was for my car with headers, cat delete, x pipe, intake, pulley and a 100 octane race fuel tune (yes I run race fuel 100% of the time) a more realistic number from a header/tune/intake with cats in place and pump gas tune is about 480whp. If you want the pulley its gonna cost another $1000, and race gas is gonna run you about $9 per gallon. A very basic and conservatively tuned Weistec stage 1 SC will make an honest 50 more whp and at least 100 more ft lbs torque with stock EVERYTHING compared to a header/tune 63, and the Weistec will pass SMOG and emissions tests...is that worth an extra $7k???? To me it is, but I guess that answer will vary from person to person based on their wants needs and wallet.

jrcart

You own a CLK 55 or a Black Series? Your sig says 55, if you own a 55 and are interested in a SC I suggest you call Weistec right away, a little bird told me they might be working on something you might be VERY interested in.

Jeff M

Sorry, my reply was mainly to the question, it did include reference to you in some ways, but not that way . Was mainly thinking back on the last few cars I had/have (other owners that had those same cars), and saying this for others reading; suggestions on super NA or super-charged, that might find upgrades to NA is all they want, but if they have an itch that won't stop, best to use the supercharger steroidal cream now and be forever cured . BTW, plan to just leave my BS stock, other than a dress-up carbon fiber air filter box, have plenty of other mod'd cars.

Sorry for the confusion

Nachtsturm

The 5k I just threw out there. Remembered seeing a set of LTs for a C63 for 3k, figured the same for the CLK. 1k for tune and 1k for any intake mods. I do what I can myself. So labor would be negligible.

Just my humble opinion is all, for me if I had a reliable 480whp NA, or could yield 530whp out of the supercharger spending an extra 7-8K, I probably would not do it. Again, that is just me, I understand why you would supercharge it though.

On my 55, with the headers and tune I am most likely around 330whp. A properly tuned Kleemann setup should yield 100whp+ increase on top of that for that same 7-8K figure. I guess I expecting something similar for the 63.


I wish I had a black series Just an avid fan. I slum here with my CLK55.

I am definitely would not count out supercharging, but all depends on timing and cost.

ecampbell

I can't speak for Maverick but Jimmy and I are running in excess of 250 rwhp over stock.

I can't say much more other than the speed is very addicting!

MACHC5

Did you say +250 RWHP over stock, how's that possible?

jrcart

Mine is making about 661 and Earls is about 665, a stock BS make 410-420. Mine should be 665-670 with my new MAFs and airbox next week, plus my ram air which is very hard to gauge on a dyno.
Let's just say Earl and I are not running the Weistec stage 1, we both run the Weistec race ported heads, heavily modified fuel delivery systems which include larger fuel rails, larger fuel injectors and insane amounts of boost considering we are both running stock internals. If we can take advantage of our new intake systems we can probably make 700whp, the limiting factor was air, now we both have new intakes (we are both testing a different set up) which are allowing Weistec to turn the boost up on both our cars. By January both cars should be making the above quoted 700whp.