Transmission TQ Limit
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From: Bay Area
W218 Stage 2, E85
Transmission TQ Limit
Recently i just got the E85 flexfuel tune from EC. It feels that the car has tremendous amount of torque. I can feel it. I have not dyno it yet, but hoping to get on dyno next week.
My question is, what is the max/peak tq limit for our transmission? I have not found a document stating this, but Wikipedia mentions 516 peak tq. I don't trust in Wiki information, so I would like to ask what is the max beating this transmission can/should take to keep the reliability still in the game. A few people have done Stage 3 (turbo upgrades) with stock engine/transmission internals and are probably somewhere around 700-800wtq.
Also, plenty of tuning brands produce almost 700tq on Stage 2, which is more than 50% increase from stock.
I do want to upgrade turbos in the future, but just curious/concerned about the high torque puts stress on the transmission. What do you guys know/think about this transmission's capability.
My question is, what is the max/peak tq limit for our transmission? I have not found a document stating this, but Wikipedia mentions 516 peak tq. I don't trust in Wiki information, so I would like to ask what is the max beating this transmission can/should take to keep the reliability still in the game. A few people have done Stage 3 (turbo upgrades) with stock engine/transmission internals and are probably somewhere around 700-800wtq.
Also, plenty of tuning brands produce almost 700tq on Stage 2, which is more than 50% increase from stock.
I do want to upgrade turbos in the future, but just curious/concerned about the high torque puts stress on the transmission. What do you guys know/think about this transmission's capability.
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2014 CLS 550
I’m getting mine redone by renntech or fs auto this summer but I gotta 120k on mine and a stage 2 weistec claims 588hp and 765 tq I have yet to dyno just had water pump, new turbo coolant lines, rear bags, airvalve block, brake rotors pads and tires replaced 😰 but after flashing tune I was having issues where the car was making a noise when I punched it on the freeway in fifth gear it made a stutter and kept driving hard. Then As let off the gas and punched it again it did the same thing now I don’t know if it’s the trans but I emailed weistec and they said it could be knock and then I remembered they gave me another tune after I was having issues so I loaded that tune and did multiple 0-60 runs last night and by the 8 or 9th run the car threw codes and was cutting power by saying inoperable had something to do with throttle response? Anyway so I logged them and reset them drove around no problems today but I sent codes to weistec and they said they needed some data sheets and recommended fs auto . I did just some good pulls with the dragy got it down to 3.91 0-60 and that’s with spare tire and crap In back but I thinking the tune is too aggressive for my car maybe because of all the miles. I got 120k on it so I’m not sure how much more the transmission can hold without having it rebuilt with stronger internals and if it’s 765 tq at crank I’m assuming at 15% loss that’s like 651 to the wheels just guessing, this is my experience and trans and cooling next mods
Last edited by Dblok1113; May 21, 2021 at 01:52 AM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 744
Likes: 144
From: Bay Area
W218 Stage 2, E85
Ouch. I remember you you have had quite a few issues with the car, but still going strong.
Do you know what exactly is RT going to service/replace on the transmission? And i believe for that, you need to drive to their shop and have it done, which is quite far. I was told that Alpha makes clutch packs for 722.9 which increases the tq capability to 1k.
https://autotalent.com/products/ams-...nz-e63-amg-rwd
Anyone has any info on those clutch packs or anything else?
Do you know what exactly is RT going to service/replace on the transmission? And i believe for that, you need to drive to their shop and have it done, which is quite far. I was told that Alpha makes clutch packs for 722.9 which increases the tq capability to 1k.
https://autotalent.com/products/ams-...nz-e63-amg-rwd
Anyone has any info on those clutch packs or anything else?
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 353
Likes: 56
2014 CLS 550
Ouch. I remember you you have had quite a few issues with the car, but still going strong.
Do you know what exactly is RT going to service/replace on the transmission? And i believe for that, you need to drive to their shop and have it done, which is quite far. I was told that Alpha makes clutch packs for 722.9 which increases the tq capability to 1k.
https://autotalent.com/products/ams-...nz-e63-amg-rwd
Anyone has any info on those clutch packs or anything else?
Do you know what exactly is RT going to service/replace on the transmission? And i believe for that, you need to drive to their shop and have it done, which is quite far. I was told that Alpha makes clutch packs for 722.9 which increases the tq capability to 1k.
https://autotalent.com/products/ams-...nz-e63-amg-rwd
Anyone has any info on those clutch packs or anything else?
Our transmission upgrade consists of a complete transmission disassembly and inspection as well as a mechanical upgrade to the transmission clutch packs. This allows us the ability to maximize the amount of friction materials contained within the transmission and in turn, the amount of power which can be transmitted through each forward gear. During final assembly the transmission also receives all new gaskets, seals, o-rings as well as a new transmission pan filter.
as far as the clutch packs giving 1000tq that sounds like an idea. I’m going to go to fs auto and see what they say about that and see what we can do about those codes. I’d love to hear if anyone else has done it or rebuilt this trans what other models use this ?
Last edited by Dblok1113; May 21, 2021 at 02:14 AM.
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From: Finland
2015 CLS550 Shooting brake 4-matic
I don't know how much torque our cars gearbox can handle without problems. think Gardievski did have like 1200nm torque on his car without problems. Also without TCU tune the torque isn't playing so big role. 1-3 gear there are torque limits as u know. Car will lower boost pressure, retard ignition timing to keep torque low on those gears. Maybe in some "rolling" pulls the big torque spikes would be hard to the transmission.
Im my case I don't feel I have too much torque. I have Dragy results 0-60. best time 3,85s and have reached two times 3,86s. I feel like the car is still too slow and sleepy on 1-2 gears when TCU does its job and limits the power. Im really waiting the M157 turbos and TCU tune. Tuner needs to make nice torque curve, not like "all out" what M157 turbo can produce on mid range. Maybe like 900-950nm range.
Can you ask your tuners to limit boost pressure a little on mid range so torque will lower too and let the top end be like is? Best would be a custom ECU tuning dynosession for that.
Im my case I don't feel I have too much torque. I have Dragy results 0-60. best time 3,85s and have reached two times 3,86s. I feel like the car is still too slow and sleepy on 1-2 gears when TCU does its job and limits the power. Im really waiting the M157 turbos and TCU tune. Tuner needs to make nice torque curve, not like "all out" what M157 turbo can produce on mid range. Maybe like 900-950nm range.
Can you ask your tuners to limit boost pressure a little on mid range so torque will lower too and let the top end be like is? Best would be a custom ECU tuning dynosession for that.
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Super Member
Joined: Jan 2017
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From: Bay Area
W218 Stage 2, E85
I don't know how much torque our cars gearbox can handle without problems. think Gardievski did have like 1200nm torque on his car without problems. Also without TCU tune the torque isn't playing so big role. 1-3 gear there are torque limits as u know. Car will lower boost pressure, retard ignition timing to keep torque low on those gears. Maybe in some "rolling" pulls the big torque spikes would be hard to the transmission.
Im my case I don't feel I have too much torque. I have Dragy results 0-60. best time 3,85s and have reached two times 3,86s. I feel like the car is still too slow and sleepy on 1-2 gears when TCU does its job and limits the power. Im really waiting the M157 turbos and TCU tune. Tuner needs to make nice torque curve, not like "all out" what M157 turbo can produce on mid range. Maybe like 900-950nm range.
Can you ask your tuners to limit boost pressure a little on mid range so torque will lower too and let the top end be like is? Best would be a custom ECU tuning dynosession for that.
Im my case I don't feel I have too much torque. I have Dragy results 0-60. best time 3,85s and have reached two times 3,86s. I feel like the car is still too slow and sleepy on 1-2 gears when TCU does its job and limits the power. Im really waiting the M157 turbos and TCU tune. Tuner needs to make nice torque curve, not like "all out" what M157 turbo can produce on mid range. Maybe like 900-950nm range.
Can you ask your tuners to limit boost pressure a little on mid range so torque will lower too and let the top end be like is? Best would be a custom ECU tuning dynosession for that.
Jerry also mentioned that they only have the E85 tune with Stage 2 tune only, not with Stage 3. He said he can make a custom tune to run with Stage 3 + E85 and make 700whp. I believe the engine is sound and built strong, but is the transmission strong as well? Do we know of any transmission failures due to high amount of power?
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From: Finland
2015 CLS550 Shooting brake 4-matic
I hope you are correct and it goes a long way lol. A few people here have Stage 3 tunes and I don't know what their dyno numbers are. But I am guessing 600+whp and 700-800wtq. I talked to Jerry at EC and he said he can limit the tq at around 750wtq to protect the transmission. But, he also did not give an answer as to what he thinks is the tq limit for this transmission. I want to do the Stage 3 upgrade, but just curious about the limits the transmission has. I don't want to blow it up lol.
Jerry also mentioned that they only have the E85 tune with Stage 2 tune only, not with Stage 3. He said he can make a custom tune to run with Stage 3 + E85 and make 700whp. I believe the engine is sound and built strong, but is the transmission strong as well? Do we know of any transmission failures due to high amount of power?
Jerry also mentioned that they only have the E85 tune with Stage 2 tune only, not with Stage 3. He said he can make a custom tune to run with Stage 3 + E85 and make 700whp. I believe the engine is sound and built strong, but is the transmission strong as well? Do we know of any transmission failures due to high amount of power?
I don't know even one M278 transmission failure after adding power. E63 AMG TCU torque limits are:
1st gear TQ limit: 650nm/ 480 FT LBS
2nd gear TQ limit: 800nm/ 590FT LBS.
3-4-5-6-7 gear TQ limit: 900nm/ 660FT LBS
Some TCU tuners have added like +100nm/70lbs to every gear or what ever the owner would like. I don't know now what are the M278 TCU torque limits. Maybe lot less than M157 on 1-2 gears because its so sleepy on 1-2 gear and you can feel the reduction of power there.
Lets see who will broke motor or transmission first! Is it you or me? LOL
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2017
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From: Bay Area
W218 Stage 2, E85
I trust our transmission to hold torque and rough use good. Just change the fluids more often. I don't know even one M278 transmission failure after adding power.
E63 AMG TCU torque limits are:
1st gear TQ limit: 650nm/ 480 FT LBS
2nd gear TQ limit: 800nm/ 590FT LBS.
3-4-5-6-7 gear TQ limit: 900nm/ 660FT LBS
Some TCU tuners have added like +100nm/70lbs to every gear or what ever the owner would like. I don't know now what are the M278 TCU torque limits. Maybe lot less than M157 on 1-2 gears because its so sleepy on 1-2 gear and you can feel the reduction of power there.
Lets see who will broke motor or transmission first! Is it you or me? LOL
I don't know even one M278 transmission failure after adding power.E63 AMG TCU torque limits are:
1st gear TQ limit: 650nm/ 480 FT LBS
2nd gear TQ limit: 800nm/ 590FT LBS.
3-4-5-6-7 gear TQ limit: 900nm/ 660FT LBS
Some TCU tuners have added like +100nm/70lbs to every gear or what ever the owner would like. I don't know now what are the M278 TCU torque limits. Maybe lot less than M157 on 1-2 gears because its so sleepy on 1-2 gear and you can feel the reduction of power there.
Lets see who will broke motor or transmission first! Is it you or me? LOL
Haha, I hope it's nobody. And I think I should have phrased my question better. I was not inquiring about the actual gearing torque limit or something. I was actually trying to get more information as to how much torque can this transmission handle on stock components? Like what is its max limit? I know Gardevski was pushing 800+wtq. That equates to roughly 950tq at the crank.
And then we have those Alpha brand clutch packs designed to increase the torque handling capacity of 722.9 transmissions to 1000tq. Gardevski was almost at 1k tq. Or is the engine/transmission really THAT strong to handle 1k hp/tq at the crank? Should we even upgrade the clutch packs or leave them stock? As Jerry from EC said, he can limit me to 750wtq to protect the transmission if I am concerned about it.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 417
Likes: 182
From: Finland
2015 CLS550 Shooting brake 4-matic
Haha, I hope it's nobody. And I think I should have phrased my question better. I was not inquiring about the actual gearing torque limit or something. I was actually trying to get more information as to how much torque can this transmission handle on stock components? Like what is its max limit? I know Gardevski was pushing 800+wtq. That equates to roughly 950tq at the crank.
And then we have those Alpha brand clutch packs designed to increase the torque handling capacity of 722.9 transmissions to 1000tq. Gardevski was almost at 1k tq. Or is the engine/transmission really THAT strong to handle 1k hp/tq at the crank? Should we even upgrade the clutch packs or leave them stock? As Jerry from EC said, he can limit me to 750wtq to protect the transmission if I am concerned about it.
And then we have those Alpha brand clutch packs designed to increase the torque handling capacity of 722.9 transmissions to 1000tq. Gardevski was almost at 1k tq. Or is the engine/transmission really THAT strong to handle 1k hp/tq at the crank? Should we even upgrade the clutch packs or leave them stock? As Jerry from EC said, he can limit me to 750wtq to protect the transmission if I am concerned about it.
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From: Bay Area
W218 Stage 2, E85
I mean, yea, it will handle it. But for how long? If the tq is too much, the clutch plates will slowly wear out and start to slip. I believe I might be around 750ish tq at the crank right now. I don't pull in first three gears anymore cuz of that much tq lol. Only 4th and above. But then those who did the M157 turbos, what wheel torque are they making and how long has it been since their upgrade and any gearing issues? That's who and what I want to know. I'm still far away from turbo upgrade, but looking forward to that time.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 417
Likes: 182
From: Finland
2015 CLS550 Shooting brake 4-matic
I mean, yea, it will handle it. But for how long? If the tq is too much, the clutch plates will slowly wear out and start to slip. I believe I might be around 750ish tq at the crank right now. I don't pull in first three gears anymore cuz of that much tq lol. Only 4th and above. But then those who did the M157 turbos, what wheel torque are they making and how long has it been since their upgrade and any gearing issues? That's who and what I want to know. I'm still far away from turbo upgrade, but looking forward to that time.
TCU tune can increase line pressure, hold pressure and clutch clamping.
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From: Bay Area
W218 Stage 2, E85
I asked him but he always seem to skip answering that question via emails lol I've asked him twice. No answer yet. So idk who else to turn to lol
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W218 Stage 2, E85
