Guilty

I currently have a '16 C63S. Ate a curb. 0 body damage, suspension + uniframe damage. Car is most likely getting totaled. It's been at Mercedes for over a month and they can't get it to align. They finally sent it to a MB Certified body shop but I made it clear that I don't want the car anymore. Pics attached for your entertainement.

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I'm going to have start looking for a new car. I'm located in SoCal. Ideally, I'd like to get a GTS with an MSRP of around 145k with minimal out of pocket (I just learned my lesson, hard)

I bought the C63S, got a very good deal but I keep hearing everywhere that it's better to lease for 2 reasons:

1. Minimal out of pocket. If car gets totaled again, I'll cut my losses and GAP insurance takes care of the rest.

2. If I trade-in the vehicle that I bought, I won't get any tax credit in CA.

3. Lease is a tax write-off.

4. Only pay sales tax on the monthly payments vs the whole car.

But I also read that the residuals are low and MFs are high for the GTS. I also drive a lot but I will get a BMW I3 as a daily if I do lease.

I'm not sure where I stand at this point.

What kind of deal should I be aiming for? How much off MSRP? MF? Drive off? Monthly Payment? Should I wait until next month?



Thanks everyone.

Guilty

Ideal build:

AMG 17GT

Short answer is you just can't lease an AMG as the money factor is somewhere around 5 to 7% which doesn't make any financial sense whatsoever you're better off just getting seven or 8% off sticker and financing at 1 1/2 to 2%. 3-4% extra interest on 100k is thousands of extra interest over even a 3 year period.

You can depreciate car as a write off just as easily as a lease.

Vic55

Im not going to delve into your reasons as to why you want to lease, you have them and your financials will dictate where you want to go along with your CPA's advice.


From a leasing standpoint in general MBFS is your only option and their buyrate for auto approval tier (Tier A1) is .00190. So that is about 4.56% in APR if you can get buyrate. If you sign up for auto pay on your actual lease contract they can reduce that rate to .00180 or 4.32%. You only have to make one payment via autopay and then you can stop the process. So while the saving is small, its still saving. The key, of course, is in the negotiation of the gross cap cost (pre any cap reduction/down). There is about 11-12% from MSRP to triple net of cost on the car depending on which store you are shopping at. But that is full discount which you wont see. The standard MSRP to invoice range is about 6%. Work that angle first- always price and rate on the lease as the residuals and terms are fixed based on what you want and not manipulated for dealer profit.


I can see why you might not want to buy the car in CA with 9% LA county tax rate, you would pay 12600 alone at 140k and that number only makes sense if you keep the car for a longer term and finance it for a very low interest rate. There are no big banks lending at this dollar at 1.50% either. You might find a credit union (they have amf caps) but most are sitting at the very high 1's and low 2's and the 12k you pay in tax is heavy and is not remotely offset by a low apr retail program especially if you trade out early.

JSwan724

It would be good to know what MB Lease thinks the Buy Price would be at lease end--say 3 years out. That would help us to know what they think the true depeciation is. I'm guessing 70%--maybe.

Guilty

Thanks Vic. Always on point.

It's unfortunate that we don't get a tax credit when we trade-in early in CA. 12k in taxes is a lot. I tend to flip cars every year or 2.

So the goal is to get 10%-11% off MSRP and then go from there.

If I do lease, how screwed am I going to be if I decide to trade-in in a year or 2? I'm sure I'll be upside down by a lot. Any idea about the residuals? I don't want to ask my sales guy too many questions. He won't be making much on me.

I also like what AMG 17GT said about writing off the depreciation, however, my CPA isn't all excited about writing off anything related to this car... What business am I conducting using it... I'll have to get creative. Not to mention that I already claimed section 179 last year.

Tough tough decisions.

jrcart

Your best bet would be to pick up a low mile used 2016. There are two Edition ones which were well equipped cars both with under 5,000 miles listed for under $115K on Cars.com. You could grab either of those for under $110KThere is a GT-S with pano roof and carbon ceramic brakes 7,200 miles listed for $120K, that car probably had an MSRP when new of $160K. There are a total of 21 2016 GT-S's listed for $120K or less. As I predicted 2 months ago prices are dropping like a rock on the 2016's. Buyer market.

JSwan724

Shouldn't consider leasing for only 2 years if you like to flip that often?

Also, wouldn't you only be taxed on the portion of the car used? I/e if you leased at say $150k and the lease end residual was 70% you would pay tax on the 30% you actually used--I think. It may not work like that in CA though.

You CPA is the best source.

Also, I have had great experience with a 1 check lease. They figure out wat the net lease amount is based on the time you want to have the car and you pay the whole amount up front including any taxes that are owed. You write off all the tax in the year you incured the expense At the lease end you give them the keys and do it again.

I truly hope you get the deal and the car you want.

Regards

Vic55

Not close, I think the 3 year residual via MBFS is in the low 50's for 12k a year. If the actuals were 70% then MBFS would take a bath at the auction on lease returns since no one could ever trade their cars in early due to immense depreciation (AMG's already suck).


Id love to be a wholesaler in that game, grabbing a 3 year old 140k car for 42k. (if 70% was the case)

Vic55

You have every right to ask for the residuals based on terms and miles- do it. As for the 11% off; I wish you all the luck in the world but that discount is well into holdback and I seriously doubt you get there. You might be able to get an invoice call on a car though (6% off). A 2 year lease on the GTS would have a ginormous payment--- the depreciation over that term is huge and the residuals are NOT Porsche like.


The goal is to get the best gross cap cost and then you will spread it out over 3 years and know that your starting point is lower due to your strong negotiations = lower payoff if you trade in earlier than lease term.

Vic55

This makes sense too if you are ok with a used item--- the savings on depreciation will more than offset the sales tax and then you could indeed get a lower rate finance loan with the overwhelming majority of your payment paying down the balance.

michail_g6

OP i PM'd you

Guilty

Jrcart, after reading about your experience with your Ed1, I'm scared of buying used. MB is being shady with lemons and you never know how the previous owner treated their car.

I know I beat the hell out of my cars without breaking them in since I know I won't be keeping them for long. And the new blown engine thread doesn't help.

What I think I'll do is:

1. Wait for the total letter from my insurance.
2. Find the right car
3. Get a pre-approval from my bank for leverage
4. Start negotiating prices and making up my mind between used/new and lease vs buy.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I will update once I have news. From what I understand, my insurance company really doesn't want to salvage the car. So far they're out of 20k in repairs. My car was towed to the body shop this morning. I'll be hearing from them tomorrow once it goes on a jig. If insurance manages to fix my car, I will be literally screwed. "Undercarriage accident" is already showing on Autocheck and I can't imagine the car holding any value when the chassis damage gets reported. If it gets totaled, GAP insurance will cover the negative equity and I'll be all set for the GTS.

jrcart

....well I say you're nuts for wanting one in the first place after seeing all the problems( not meant as an insult). I am still not convinced problems were all limited to early release models. A guy just posted over on PL this week that he is having major electrical and battery issues and AMG is telling him it will be at least a month before his car is back on the road, a $160K car sitting in a dealership for over a month should be a crime. People are acting like a few problems is no big deal but if you consider there have only been a couple thousand GT's sold in the US and then look at the number of problems it works out to be a higher percentage than you might think. Furthermore people that are experiencing problems are experiencing more than one problem, like me many owners have seen multiple issues. I turned down my dealers allocation on a GT-R which was offered to me at or below MSRP, that should tell you something. All that being said you are nuts if you buy a new one, values on these are already getting hammered, even more so than the typical AMG depreciation. The base GT is going to hurt GT-S values as is the GT-C. There are nearly 500 new and used GT's listed on Cars.com, the market is flooded and when winter sets in for half the country they are going to be giving these away which is only going to hurt the values of cars already on the road. I don't usually care about resale because I usually keep my cars a while and mod them but for some of you guys that buy or lease a new car every couple years you are going to take a bath. So if I were you I would buy a used or CPO used one that has already take an initial hit. At least with the CPO you are getting a killer warranty, a better than new warranty actually. My salesmen told me the lease numbers are so bad on GT's right now that they are nearly impossible to lease, what that means is MB's residual calculators are predicting HUGE depreciation on these cars. Like you I don't usually consider buying used but in this instance if I were in the market for one I would most likely go the used route. Good luck man!

emericr

Don't listen to the naysayers...
The market is not flooded at all. There are only 89 used ones for sales on cars.com. The rest are brand new units sitting on dealer lots (100 2016s, the rest are 2017s that recently landed).
The GTS is actually holding its value better than other AMGs. if you are lucky enough to find an Edition ones and buy it at $115K, that's a 20% loss for a car that could be close to 1.5 years old assuming you paid 144K MRSP. Other ones in that low price range were low optioned car.
I agree that it is probably wise to avoid early Edition 1s and personally I would rather buy/lease a new one and find a dealer that will discount his units (believe me, there are out there).
I am sorry for not being able to answer your questions directly but it seems that the sales tax issue of not getting a credit for trade would dictate a lease to be the better option over a 10 year period and 5 cars. All you need to do now is negotiate the discount and the lease factor.

Guilty

emericr, thanks for your feedback. I looked at what's out there but none of the available cars fit my criteria. If I'm spending that much, the car better looks the way I want it

That aside, I'm quite frustrated at the moment. I spoke to the body shop and they're saying they can 100% fix it back to spec, although it's not jigged yet.

I am probably going to end up stuck with a bruised C63 for another while. Autocheck is dirty. Carfax isn't. I'd love to get rid of the car but I'm not sure how. Diminished value is real.

AMG 17GT

Have a look at your policy and see if it covers diminished value in a one car accident if it does then you need to hire an expert To determine $loss. It could be 4-6 k.

JSwan724

Damned good thnking!! I knew you were smart!!

Astolfo

if it is your own insurance policy I do not think you ca claim diminished value, can you?
I hired an "expert" but I got more out of my lawyer. I got $7k in diminished when a truck ruined the 2 left doors.


BTW I passed on buying the GTS, too many issues and the average "dealer" visit is about 42 days a year according to a very trusted source. Too bad because I loved the car but wanted it as my second daily driver and there is no way I could live with myself having a $150k at the dealer, wasting time dealing with all the back and forth.
Again too bad because I loved the car.

Guilty

Yes, that's why I said diminished value is going to be hard to get. Although it's a non-fault collision claim, it's still my own insurance and they already said NO. I will try again if the car isn't totaled. If I do get a check... I'll sell the C63 the same day.

Sanch

Damn, sorry to hear that mate!

Solid hit to make the forged wheels bend that much.

Good choice with the GTS though if you end up getting it

Wolfman

2 year residual is 64% at 10k miles and 3 year was at 56% if memory serves...

Wolfman

Good luck to you but to get the car totaled based on the damage seems unlikely. .\\

Wolfman

I think JRCART is right that some quality problems will likely linger into MY18.

This is still AMG's first larger-scale production effort in building their own design. The SLS was a limited scale production car and more is forgiven on the lack of quality and perfection.

While still relatively small in production output, the GT is hugely important for AMG and their reputation as their own corporate entity and the GT has a very high profile because the car is legitimately compared as a Porsche competitor.
Maybe not here in this forum but in Germany and also by Porsche.

So there is pressure by AMG to suppress bad press.

That said, all early issues aside and they do exist, but AMG has a great platform that will continue to be refined. Porsche has been refining their 911 for decades.

The GT has sex appeal and fun factor and IMHO can convert a good amount of P-customers in the next 4-5 years.

NewportSLS

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/04/mercedes-amg-gt-sales-figures-usa-canada.html?m=1