SammyT

does the hi oil level cause that but oil smell. My 2017 is currently getting an oil change because I smelled that fuel smell in the oil....andbthey just called me saying they think there is coolant in the oil. Want to charge me almost $700 to diagnose...thoughts please?

Acta_Non_Verba

My approach - before I agree to any further intervention (at a cost, of course) I'd ask what led them to believe there is coolant in the oil.

Typically, water (coolant) when it mixes with oil under operating temperatures and pumping pressures causes a mixture resembling a "milkshake" and this milkshake is the first observation that legacy mechanics used to diagnose as a problem before there were such things as diagnostic equipment.

Finally, if that is the case, I'd probably be taking the car out of the custody of a dealership, UNLESS you are under warranty. If not under warranty, then I'd be looking for a reliable indy.

BTW, if there is coolant in the oil, there are several reasons how it might have gotten there, most of which will be pretty costly repairs, some might not.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this if you'd be kind enough to update here as this progresses.

SammyT

Thank you sir for your replying so quickly. Here is an update. The dealership actually showed me photos today of the "chocolate milk"... "FOUND WATER RESIDUE INSIDE ALL OIL FEED LINES AND RETURN LINES AT OIL COOLER , AND MAIN OIL CONTAINER" after they drained the oil on my recently purchased (3 weeks ago) 2017 AMG gt. The dealership suggested an oil system flush ($490) and a "Main Oil Container" replacement ($2800). The container,, they say, has several filters that may not come clean with the system flush. I'm concerned about how the water got in the oil system, especially since they are telling me that the coolant system passed the pressure test. Among other things, I'm trying to determine if the high oil level could have caused the moisture in the oil.

The back story....this vehicle engine was flooded in 2019, it was repaired and since then it has about 8k miles put on it. It runs perfectly with the exception of the "high oil level" warning that came on about 10 minutes after I drove it off the dealer lot. Incidently, the oil was changed the day before I purchased the car at a Jiffy Lube. (According to the little sticker on the windshield)

Yes the car has a rebuilt title and I know it was a risky purchase. Again, I'm trying to determine
1. Was the water residual in the oil system from the time it was flooded in 2019 and it was just noticed because it was never serviced properly at the MB dealership?
2. Is there a correlation with the moisture in the oil system with it being overfilled (the day before I purchased it)?
3. Is there a much bigger problem....if so why have I not had any temperature or misfiring issues?

Thanks ahead of time for any insight...Sammy T.

AMG 17GT

This will not end well.

SammyT

I'm in it to win it!

Acta_Non_Verba

Wow - so, you have more possibilities and unknowns here. Can you add any more detail about exactly how the car was flooded?

First possibility, based on how the car flooded, how much water damage, at what levels, either the repair could have been done half hazardly not getting all of the water out of the system, or the repair as failed. The oil system is completely sealed and should not take on water assuming the entire engine was not submerged for a long time. Same with the cooling system, should not take on water when flooded.

I'm guessing here, but I would lean towards the repair. The very simple and likely first possibility - the heads were removed/replaced during the rebuild and a relaced head gasket has failed between a coolant port and either a cylinder, or an oil passage. That would certainly be first on my personal list.

On these cars, because of the height of the intake ports at the front right behind the grill and under the hood, if someone tried to drive through a flooded street (maybe a viaduct) and the intake ports sucked up large volumes of water, this would pretty instantly end up in a hydrolocked engine. Based on the rpms at the time it does a whole lotta engine damage starting with at least a broken rod or more.

If driving through at a very slow speed and water rushed into the intake ports, the best of scenarios, could have snuffed out the engine before hydrolock occurred, but took on water all the way through the intake through, into the intake manifolds and into cylinders before the engine died. With that possibility, it would have caused a complete engine teardown leading right back to heads being removed, head gaskets replaced, and, subsequently, one of those gaskets failing between a coolant port and an oil port.

Also, if the engine sucked up enough water and the rebuild did not include a complete teardown including removing the pan, water could have been left in the oil pan, lines and oil cooler and sucked back into the oil tank on startup. Unfortunately, anyway you look at it, going to be costly to really costly. Flushing the oil tank and replacing it might work if there is no head gasket damage. But, if it is a failed head gasket, then it's going to be a major teardown AND the oil tank replacement BC of those filters.

So, to your three Qs at the end, MY answers:

1. It is a possibility since, even with an oil change, not all the oil is drained on a change done the correct way. Done the incorrect way, even less oil is drained, so it is possible oil mixed with original flood water wasn't completely purged out at the rebuild. With a 9L oil capacity, only 7L are removed on a correct change, but only 6L on an incorrect change. If a Jiffy lube did the change I can pretty much say with certainty, they did the change the incorrect way.
2. No. Cannot see any correlation there.
3. You wouldn't have a misfire situation unless a head gasket failed Coolant port to cylinder. However, if there is a coolant port to oil port failure in the head gasket, this would not result in misfires, etc.

Hendrik Koster

A word of the wise:

Between being a D.I.Y GTS owner /Yachts broker I can tell you that any time an expensive vessel will get it's lube oil analyzed before it changes hands as part of the industry standard an independent survey and sea trial must be done.(any Insurance company demands this).

As part of the survey oil samples will be pulled and send to a test lab for analysis ( for example Bureau Veritas Oil Condition Monitoring / no affiliation with me ) and I have seen deals fall through whenever water/glycol is detected as most of the time this means major engine work is needed to correct the issue.

This practice could help prospective car owners to avoid a lot of headache.

Best H

Stenzel-Germany

Hi,

True words from Acta and Hendrik. Especially the 9L / 7L / 6L offense.

If you flood through, get water in the engine. (possible due to the crankcase ventilation) You will not be able to remove it by simply flushing it.
Since really up to 3 liters of water / oil mixture remain in the engine.

The GT runs for 8000mls without problems?
You don't have to refill cooling system water either?

Then I would be completely relaxed.

There are ventilation and defoaming zones in the storage tank. Also coarse nets. I am not aware of any filter.
Even if it does, an oil filter is not, in reality, much affected by water.

Buy 2 Oilfilters, 2 drain plugs, a 60 liter barrel of cheap 0W40 engine oil. and 10 liters of good 0W40 branded oil.

Let the oil out of the reservoir. Fill to the correct oil level.

Drive without a lot of load until your engine oil is > 100 degrees Celsius. (Here water evaporates LOL) + 20mls

Change Oilfilter. Change the oil again. Measure what you let off, if the oil is cool. You refill this amount.
With dry sump lubrication, + 0.5 / - 2.0 Liters are also irrelevant. (Except that produces messages)
You do this, until your barrel is empty. Should be enough for 9-10 times.
After the dilution series, in the worst case you should now be with a homeopathic water content.

Change Oilfilter. Fill in the good branded oil to the correct oil level. Drive 200mls. Look at the oil.
After ride, drip 4-5 drops onto a filter fleece. Wait 2h and check it.
Check the creep distribution.

Sounds like a lot of work now. From oil change no. 3 onwards, you can do this while you sleep.
You don't have to do it in one day.:-)
I would temporär put a ball valve with a hose in the drain plug. Then the change goes very quickly.

What does the oil change cost, compared to the options?

That would be my first attempt.


Overkill can still be done.


best regards

Stenzel

Acta_Non_Verba

I like this idea very much.

If it doesn't yield positive results, not very much cost. If it does prove only latent water left in the oil from the flood, then you're way ahead.

I would recommend NOT doing the $700 diagnostic. Save the money and put it into oil changes.

Great suggestion Stenzel!

SammyT

Thank you all for the feedback. I am actually feeling better about this. I already have the flush and the oil tank replacement scheduled for tomorrow at the dealership.

Additional Info: There was reportedly no water in the passenger cabin, electronics, or any other systems. The dealer was kind enough to provide an invoice from the mechanic shop from which the repairs were made...
INVOICE Date: 1/30/2020. Milaege: 13,732
1. VEHICLE CAME IN NON RUNNING WITH WATER IN ENGINE.
2. THERE WAS NO WATER IN THE PASSENGER CABIN
3. R/R DIASSEMBLE INTAKE MANIFOLD AND TURBO COOLERS
4. DRAIN WATER FROM ENGINE
5. FULL SYNTHETIC OIL CHANGE WITH FILTER
​6. REPLACE ENGINE AIR FILTER
6. REPLACE CABIN AIR FILTER
8. REPLACE SPARK PLUGS

Did I mention the car runs perfectly. All the recent discoveries related to the water in the oil were made beacuase I wanted the dealership to change the oil after I thought the oil had a gas smell..Remember the oil was just changed the day before I bought it. (less than 500 miles ago). In addition, it currently has ~23,500 miles....which means the dealer I bought it from has been driving it and says he put 10,000 miles on it since 1/20/20.

I'm not a mechanic, but I am somewhat mechanically inclined. My plans are to let the dealership have a go at it tomorrow. (They ordered an Engine flush kit and the new oil tank which they believe has "milk residual" in the tank filters).

I like the idea of having the oil sampled for coolant residue after they perform the work....however, I'm still very open to suggestions.

Again, thank you all for your feedback. Its very much appreciated....Sammy T.

Acta_Non_Verba

Sammy,

Best of luck on this. I feel you're on a good track!

Hendrik had a good idea. On oil samples, it would be good to do your own independent oil sample (not through the dealer that is doing the work). There is a very good reliable company out there. I've been using Blackstone Labs for oil analysis for at least 20 years now or more. They make it very convenient for you, just go to their WS, they'll send a sample bottle to you.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

The bottle is already self-addressed and because this is a liquid going through the mail, they already have the proper mailing permit the PO requires for mailing liquids. I get these sample bottles sent to me 3 at a time so I always have a bottle ready to use when I need an analysis. Bottle looks like this:




Please keep us posted on progress if you don't mind. I would like to see how this turns out for you.

All the Best,

SammyT

Quick update: 12/22/21, 8am - Dropped off car at MB Delership
10am- recieved message from MB Dealership - parts have been delayed until next week! 😳 No worries, ill pick up the car and take it back next week... until then....Merry Christmas.

tusabes

whatever happened with this? Was your engine damaged or was it just residual water