Checked the price on an 8 year old S-class?

Tesla certainly does have issues with parts availability and build quality, but they’re more Tesla issues than electric issues. Electric powertrains are generally more reliable than internal combustion engines. Electric motors and motor drivers rarely fail; well built motors and drivers should last a million plus kilometers and many decades. Just look at diesel electric trains - even locomotive grade engines usually need rebuilding before the electric parts wear out.

Our cars are already pretty computer heavy, and parts aren’t cheap. If an ECU goes on one of our AMG GTs 20 years from now, will they have replacement stock? I don’t know. Fortunately, solid state electronic components are generally pretty reliable. The most common failure in electronics is electrolytic capacitors, but those have improved in chemistry in recent years. Bad solder joints are the other common issue, but those can be repaired on NLA components.

Battery degradation on Lithium batteries with good thermal management is fairly minimal. Those 7-8 year old Teslas usually still have 85% or more of their original battery capacity. Now, 20+ year old vehicles are a different story. Replacing 20 year old EV batteries would probably be expensive and supply may be an issue. I expect most EVs would be scrapped before their batteries need replacement, but higher value collector EVs may get their expensive batteries replaced if suitable batteries remain available.

 

I hope you are right, @wizee !

 

The ideal weight distribution is rear biased, as it allows more rear traction when acceleration, more even distribution of braking between front and rear, and also improved agility. The AMG GT and SLS get this right with their front-mid engine layout and rear transaxle. This is the biggest reason why the AMG GT handles much better than the SL.

With AWD, a front heavy design wont hurt acceleration as much, but it would hurt agility and braking. Maybe they’ll put batteries in the back to balance the weight.

On an unrelated note, I read the new base SL will be a four cylinder hybrid. Barf... I’d rather they just make it a full EV. I4 engines suck in terms of smoothness, sound, and character.

 

This talk about parts; hybrids and BEVs is interesting.

Re: parts. Major manufacturers are obligated to supply vehicles they have ceased production of for a certain number of years, so getting replacement parts is a non-event for most people IMHO. Furthermore, aftermarket companies step up and supply parts to really old vehicles for collectors, etc. How else do you think 1960’s Mustangs, etc are still running;

Hybrids/electrified future GT models: I can’t wait. We currently are traction limited with the power we have available, hence a hybrid solution with two separate electric motors running the front axle supplying more power; more traction; torque vectoring, etc. will elevate our cars to another level of performance. As wizee states, these electrical components are incredibly robust. If something is going to fail it generally fails very early since there’s a manufacturing issue; after that, high quality electric motors will run for hundreds of thousands of miles ultra reliably. Granted, hybrids are complex beasts, and one should always keep a warranty handy but primarily for the ICE parts IMHO;

And lastly, BEVs: dealerships and in particular their profit making service/parts departments are ****ting their pants because when BEVs become the norm, it will transform the current dealership model since full BEVs need so little maintenance versus ICE vehicles. Hence the profit centre will move from non-sales to sales; there will be many mergers and or failures I fear. That being said, a BEV future AMG GTR with a solid state Li ion battery able to recharge in 15-20 minutes and provide a range of around 400 miles, along with AWD, a low C of G and 50/50 weight balance will be glorious. I can’t wait.

In fact I am so impressed with what the future holds for us ‘gearheads’, that I just picked up an Audi e-tron as my DD. What a great vehicle.

Bish

 

The turn in this thread emphasizes how what we don’t understand we fear. While EVs are certainly the future, As far as the German manufacturers they are way behind, and as such, I’m not looking forward to the next two or three years of this Tech from Benz. Maybe 2023, as battery tech gets developed.
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Hey Bish, I’m sure the e-tron is cool. Hopefully the drive is more engaging than a Tesla’s. I love Chris Harris’ recent comment (in his preview of the Taycan), that “Tesla’s are cars for people who don’t like cars”!

The issue with parts availability and longevity is unfortunately not going to be rosy. But it will only affect the secondary market, and those drivers who intend to keep their cars over 10 years. Mercedes does not commit to making parts for a specific length of time — I asked. They decide at some point to stop supplying parts. At that point, when those electronics fail, and they will, owners will be SOL.
And this is where repairability (or lack thereof) comes in — when those capacitors or anything on any one of the hundreds of circuits in these things go, you can’t repair it. And in the harsh environment of vehicles, electronics are not going to last much past 10 years — you’d be lucky if you get 10 years. Think about it - who uses a 10 year old Mac or PC? The iPhone of 10 years ago was the iPhone 4. Apple stopped supporting the iPhone 6, let alone the 4. Do you think Apple will fix the screen or whatever on your iPhone 4 at the Genius Bar? No. And MB will be the same, as they’ll be trying to get you into the current model.

As far as driving dynamics, I’m sure MB will get it right on the new GT - although if it shares the SL (4 seater) platform, that’s not cool. But weight distribution will certainly suffer.

 

Capacitors and bad solder joints are replaceable by a competent electronics tech, even if the dealer won’t do it. However, the long term availability of more complex components worries me for all modern cars, not just electric cars. Silicon vendors regularly discontinue manufacturing components after 5-10 year runs. Furthermore, without documentation, it’s hard to perform more complex repairs on these electronic components or create aftermarket replacements. It’s not like a mechanical part for a 1960s Mustang.

As a simple example, the keys for late (1997-1999) W140/C140 cars are no longer available. They use an immobilizer RFID chip that’s no longer made, and the protocol is also not publicly documented. People who lost their keys are unable to start their car. I’ve started a side project to reverse engineer the immobilizer module in the car and develop a workaround. This is just a very simple module on a car from the 90s.

On cars like the AMG GT, a lot of powertrain configuration is done through the infotainment screen. If the infotainment computer fails and replacements are no longer available, the car would be partially inoperable. Reverse engineering the infotainment computer would not be feasible, given its hardware and software complexity.

 

everything youre saying is strictly opinion and your stating as if its a fact....teslas are holding more value than most ICE cars....look it up yourself...do you think AMG OR M cars hold value LOL....or how about an S class???
is the 918 spyder worthless...it was originally released 7 years ago,...everyone who owns it should dump it now before it becomes worthless.

Yah MBs supply chain will only last 5 years....then you cant get parts lol....rightttt. How are early 2000's Toyota Prius for sale? They are damn near 20 years old.

 

R230 was the best looking SL of all time to me. Been downhill from there imo. Miss my 2009 SL63 AMG. It was in Designo Diamond White Metallic and it was gorgeous. It was just sexy looking and the sound of that NA 6.2 was incredible.

 

I hope you mean modern era SL's. Because I can argue very strongly and successfully against "all time" part.

 

Yes modern is what I meant.