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Hello all. I am forward thinking here, but I was wondering if anyone knows the 1/4 mile and road course lap time deltas of a GTR vs a GTS (same years, same track, preferably same day)?
If there is a delta, what mods would the GTS need to come close to the GTR lap times without replacing suspension let's say?
GTS around Nurburgring is ~7:35. GTR is ~7:10. Around a race track, I doubt you can make up the time difference without changing nearly everything. Add more hp to the GTS and it'll need better cooling, brakes, etc.
Straight line acceleration, you can get a GTS to GTR performance with a $1500 tune.
If you want a cruiser with good highway acceleration, get the GTS and tune it.
If you want to do any track stuff, get the GTR.
If you want to go to the 1/4 mile strip, look elsewhere. These cars suck at launching from a stop (relatively speaking).
GTS around Nurburgring is ~7:35. GTR is ~7:10. Around a race track, I doubt you can make up the time difference without changing nearly everything. Add more hp to the GTS and it'll need better cooling, brakes, etc.
Straight line acceleration, you can get a GTS to GTR performance with a $1500 tune.
If you want a cruiser with good highway acceleration, get the GTS and tune it.
If you want to do any track stuff, get the GTR.
If you want to go to the 1/4 mile strip, look elsewhere. These cars suck at launching from a stop (relatively speaking).
Any idea the times of the GTC compared to the GTR?
GTS around Nurburgring is ~7:35. GTR is ~7:10. Around a race track, I doubt you can make up the time difference without changing nearly everything. Add more hp to the GTS and it'll need better cooling, brakes, etc.
Straight line acceleration, you can get a GTS to GTR performance with a $1500 tune.
If you want a cruiser with good highway acceleration, get the GTS and tune it.
If you want to do any track stuff, get the GTR.
If you want to go to the 1/4 mile strip, look elsewhere. These cars suck at launching from a stop (relatively speaking).
It would be a daily driver with 3-5 track days/year most likely...possibly on a 2nd set of wheels with some sort of track tire.
It would be a daily driver with 3-5 track days/year most likely...possibly on a 2nd set of wheels with some sort of track tire.
Ron
They're pretty capable track day cars; might need to do some brake upgrades. You just have to remember it's basically a 6 year old car now so it wont be as fast as newer and more track focused cars.
Maybe someone else can chime in but I haven't seen any posts on this forum from GTS owners who have upgraded to expensive shocks like Motons/JRZ and big brake kits like Stoptech/AP Racing.
Any idea the times of the GTC compared to the GTR?
No idea but I track my GTC about once a month. It's a great compromise between the GTR and GTS. Track times also depend on tire choice, camber, the driver, etc. I almost never take my track times since it doesn't really matter, but I have found that I am generally faster most, other than clearly superior track cars such as a well driven ZR1 or GT350R with slicks or a well driven GT4 or dedicated other track/race cars. I am passing pretty much everything else. I don't often see Ferraris, Lambos, McLs in advanced HPDE groups, which should also be faster, but again it's the driver - e.g., in Dec 19 at Daytona on the road course, there was a guy in a Ford GT (gulf livery - looked amazing) but everyone was passing him since he wouldn't get above 110 on the banks. He should have been crushing most of us. In the end, who cares. You will have fun in whatever car you pick!
This is unrelated to your question but once you drive a GTR and a GTS you will notice the GTR has a very raw track focused feel to it even in comfort mode.
They're pretty capable track day cars; might need to do some brake upgrades. You just have to remember it's basically a 6 year old car now so it wont be as fast as newer and more track focused cars.
Maybe someone else can chime in but I haven't seen any posts on this forum from GTS owners who have upgraded to expensive shocks like Motons/JRZ and big brake kits like Stoptech/AP Racing.
I hadn't mentioned a year.
I didn't want to spend the coin on a GTR so I figured a GTS maybe with a tune (downpipe too?) and throw on tires and track dedicated brake pads/fluid. I wondered how that would fare vs a GTR.
I have been on track with a GTR and they're no joke when well driven.
If you attend the AMG Driving Academy once they are doing it again you can drive the GTS and GTR back to back on the track. Stock for stock, I can tell you it's two different worlds. The GTR is purpose built for fast track times. It just sticks to the track and goes around it very precisely. Little oversteer thanks to the rear wheel steering, which you won't be able to retrofit on a GTS. The GTS is a different experience. It went sideways around the first corner and is not nearly the scalpel that the GTR is around the track. Obviously the GTR comes with Cup 2 tires which you can easily put on a GTS and I'm sure will make some difference, but the GTR has aero to give it more downforce that the GTS doesn't have among all the other upgrades. Just look at the GTR Pro. Mostly aero improvements for even faster track times than the GTR. I'm sure you can work on a GTS to give it more downforce, but that isn't as easy as buying some add-on spoiler from an aftermarket shop that is more about looks than performance. After my experience with the two cars back to back it was clear that the GTS is the more fun, playful and Hooligan car and the GTR is a precise instrument for the track. The GTR is one of those cars built for Nurburgring times, which usually means they are not all that great for just driving on public roads, ask James May. The GTS would be more entertaining. As said above, the GTC is really kind of the middle ground. It's a touring version of the GTR.
Last edited by superswiss; Jan 22, 2021 at 02:13 PM.
I didn't want to spend the coin on a GTR so I figured a GTS maybe with a tune (downpipe too?) and throw on tires and track dedicated brake pads/fluid. I wondered how that would fare vs a GTR.
Ron
This was my recipe for fun. I never ran on track next to a GTR, but have plenty of experience on track with GT3s. I am faster than many, but not all. Maybe this helps if you know how a GTR vs GT3 compares. Driver ability starts to muddy the waters when it comes to comparing a car’s performance. Does your skill level necessitate the OEM upgrade? Possibly. But there is a huge divide between a professional and weekend enthusiast.
Im happy with my decision. My ability + car in current form has proven superior to most advanced group vehicles on track. Seems to be a reoccurring theme on this forum. Its fun improving on my ability, but my skill level doesn't demand a 35k-50k premium to “walk the edge”. You can never escape the depreciation curve but this was my attempt to minimize the loss.
This was my recipe for fun. I never ran on track next to a GTR, but have plenty of experience on track with GT3s. I am faster than many, but not all. Maybe this helps if you know how a GTR vs GT3 compares. Driver ability starts to muddy the waters when it comes to comparing a car’s performance. Does your skill level necessitate the OEM upgrade? Possibly. But there is a huge divide between a professional and weekend enthusiast.
Im happy with my decision. My ability + car in current form has proven superior to most advanced group vehicles on track. Seems to be a reoccurring theme on this forum. Its fun improving on my ability, but my skill level doesn't demand a 35k-50k premium to “walk the edge”. You can never escape the depreciation curve but this was my attempt to minimize the loss.
So you have done what I mentioned and your driveability is fine & it is formidable on the track in the advanced group?
From the beginning. It's a key part of the GT R along with the 9 stage traction control straight out of the GT3. They dropped the rear steering on the Black Series, but the GT C, GT R and GT R Pro all have it. The GT C and below don't have the 9 stage traction control. Arguably one of the best things about the GT R and above, even if you don't end up manually adjusting the levels. It's an overall much more effective traction control system that works with the driver instead of against the driver. It was added to the 2019+ C63S as well and I love it. Only the GT R, Pro and BS have the yellow knob on the center console that goes along with it to adjust the levels. In the GT R roadster and the C63S you have to use the drive mode selector on the steering wheel, which I actually find better because it's right there where my hands are.
Car and Driver tested stock versions of both at their Lightning Lap, but in 2 different years so not an exact comparison. The GTR was 7.6s faster on a 4.1 mile lap, which is obviously a large gap. Both cars were using Cup 2 tires but the GTR was on ZPs.
People in the forum have found that both cars need brake cooling ducts, at least on the front, if you are seriously tracking them. You are asking about track time comparisons so you may already know this.... often the biggest gain in lap times you can make is a driver upgrade. For the most part, the more power a car has... the more skill it takes to control at the limit. Both these have lots of power and torque so a driver upgrade will go a long way.
Car and Driver tested stock versions of both at their Lightning Lap, but in 2 different years so not an exact comparison. The GTR was 7.6s faster on a 4.1 mile lap, which is obviously a large gap. Both cars were using Cup 2 tires but the GTR was on ZPs.
People in the forum have found that both cars need brake cooling ducts, at least on the front, if you are seriously tracking them. You are asking about track time comparisons so you may already know this.... often the biggest gain in lap times you can make is a driver upgrade. For the most part, the more power a car has... the more skill it takes to control at the limit. Both these have lots of power and torque so a driver upgrade will go a long way.
I've been driving advanced at my local tracks for about 10 years in C6Z06's, a 2014 Viper GTS, and now my C7Z06. I'd just need to learn the car.
7.6 seconds is a lot. My tracks are only about 1.7 miles long.
It’s not too hard to make the GTS to handle as good as the GTR but it depends on what you want out of the car. We have been developing my GTS track wise and the biggest improvement over the stock setup was tires and shocks but are looking at GT Pro parts so that we don’t lose the Mercedes adjustability of the system. But lowering the car 1/2 inch front and rear with adjustable coil overs and better tires gained me 2 seconds at Laguna Seca. With a few quality/smart mods it won’t take much to get to GTR track times at all. Also a good tune will get your more power than a stock GTR or even Pro.
It’s not too hard to make the GTS to handle as good as the GTR but it depends on what you want out of the car. We have been developing my GTS track wise and the biggest improvement over the stock setup was tires and shocks but are looking at GT Pro parts so that we don’t lose the Mercedes adjustability of the system. But lowering the car 1/2 inch front and rear with adjustable coil overs and better tires gained me 2 seconds at Laguna Seca. With a few quality/smart mods it won’t take much to get to GTR track times at all. Also a good tune will get your more power than a stock GTR or even Pro.
How much would you say you spent though on the coilovers and tune?
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Its fun improving on my ability, but my skill level doesn't demand a 35k-50k premium to “walk the edge”. You can never escape the depreciation curve but this was my attempt to minimize the loss.
