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Finally matching yelllow Speakers! Routing Speaker Adapters for 3 inch door speaker. Pink wires are for the passenger side for some reason. Tried the new plug in & out method, instead of soldering. Doubling down on the sound deadening and closed cell foams.
All this work to match the speaker color! Lol
I also removed the moisture vapor on the door and applied sound deadening materials that are made in Ukraine (Support!).
My solution was the following: I cut off the original door speaker chassis. i.e. only the fastening ring with the plug.
These speakers are so cheaply made that you can't even give them to someone. No loss. :-)
Mounted the 80mm (fits perfect) Eton speaker with a sheet metal ring (enclosed). Soldered the Eton connectors to the former speaker plug.
So you didn't have to change anything on the vehicle side.
Info from WIS for Code 810 (Small Burmester) for all DIY:
Mid driver / subwoofer / center:
The speaker lines with the red lines (bue/green, center music coil) are + signal.
The loudspeaker lines with the black lines (green, center music coil) are - signal.
180 degree phase rotation for tweeters, rear and footwell TM speakers:
The loudspeaker lines with the red lines are - signal.
The speaker lines with the black lines (nothing on rear) are + signal.
Info:
In the "big" Burmester 811, parts are still mounted behind the midrange door speakers.
Looked like cases in the EPC. (With a midrange speaker, a small, closed housing is enough)
Of course, I ordered these immediately. Turns out these are just plain 10mm foam covers. Can you save yourself.
Had it there, installed it. Otherwise, I would have simply wrapped the speaker with foam insulation on the back of the housing.
Honor your insulation. But I am of the opinion that this is not necessary with a midrange speaker (with a 6.5" TM driver, for sure). But it certainly cannot do any harm.
What's next? NavTen / DSP? (You have MOST 150, the cheap MOST 100 converter do not work)
Please continue to report here. And lots of pictures :-) Thanks.
Thanks, Stenzel! I just assumed that the reds were all +. I will have to make adjustments on the DSP.
I searched for MOST150 for NTG 5.2 (AMG GT infotaintment version), and NAV TV M was on the top of the search. However, $1000 price tag did not seem to be reasonable. So, I continued looking for similar solution and came across MOBRIDGE products. DA-G2 Pro MOST150 had a fully featured DSP built in for $800, so I jumped on it.
10 Chanel RCA out & a TOSLINK out USB is for connecting PC to operate DSP 9th & 10th channels are separate from the dongle Plug in and out setup
Peak at the DSP software
In proccess for the install, but I thought I would share the product info first.
Applying sound deadening and foam treatment on doors was pretty easy, but the benefit is awesome in my opinion. It significantly blocks vibrations and noise from these big doors, so the cabin becomes more acoustically ahering. Doors close with more solid feel and sound also. Only cost $100, 20 min each doors and left with so much materials to cover 5 more doors. It adds weight and do not look stock and appealing on the other hand.
JL HD 900/5 (100w x 4 plus 500w x 1), Audison AP4D (70w x 4), Mobridge (MOST150 DSP) Audison AP4D on the back of the panel, which is secured on three existing threaded studs that used to hold factory sub pp-mb 1.9bur, harness used here, bypassing factory amp and utilizing existing speaker wires directly with JL and Audison amps. Testing out speaker connections and polarity
Removing the cover and getting to the terminal was very difficult. Broke the plastic tab on the cover. Running the power cable down the passenger foot well Passenger side sill Easy rear speaker cover removal Pulled the power cable from the side sill behind the passenger side seat carpet Finally to the trunk
New issues:
1. Constant 12V from the battery. Had to wire12V power cable going to Burmester amp to the MOST DSP, then connect 12V switching wire to other amps.
2. Driver side rear speaker wire is hooked up with the MOST cable for chimes. Have to figure this one out.
Which speaker did you choose?You need a suitable one.These housings only have approx. 8 liters and are closed. You still had a real case.(In contrast to the >17 models) wouldn't that have been modifiable?(Haven't gotten one yet)
Yellow circles are the options for OEM Phone, Navigation, PDC and Voice recognition (Sink1-4). You can assign which speaker you want them to play on.
I personally selected driver side door mid speaker, and just started testing.
8 inch woofer, I am using Dynaudio Esotec (150w RMS), but I ordered a more powerful, Focal Utopia 8 inch (250w RMS). JL AMP has a dedicated sub out at 500w RMS, so I am adjusting the gains down to match the speaker power handling.
I bought the sub box, by googling "AMG GT SUB ENCLOSURE" and came across a few ebay listings. You can also find the manufacturer's listing as well.
Well made box, which you can slide it in without modifying factory liners. I am not sure about the bass performance, since you can only fit 8 inch sub.
I just wish I can make a nice big enclosure like Stenzel did
I bought the sub box, by googling "AMG GT SUB ENCLOSURE" and came across a few ebay listings. You can also find the manufacturer's listing as well.
Well made box, which you can slide it in without modifying factory liners. I am not sure about the bass performance, since you can only fit 8 inch sub.
I just wish I can make a nice big enclosure like Stenzel did
It's 8 liters.
.283 cubic foot. Real small, since it is just utilizing the side den over the factory liner. Not going to work for people who fancy big bass.
Had email contact with the builder at the time. Very friendly person.
Also asked if he can install a 10" subwoofer opening. Answer,: not enough space.
(SDAutoSalon built his own enclosure for a 10" subwoofer. See below)
Only 8L volume, low installation depth and closed housing requires a special subwoofer.
The Thiele-Small parameters (TSP) must fit for this.
This was my choice. Fits near perfect. (parameter) But there is a 10" not an 8".
A closed housing always means sound pressure loss and the frequency does not go down that far.
In a car, the frequency response is completely o.k. Good sub and power amplifier bring the sound pressure well.
SDAutoSalon whole top conversion, it should not be missing here:
The 2014 - 2016 subwoofer housing (haven't had my hands on one yet) I see as the better one.
Don't know the volume and the chassis diameter.
If anyone has one, that would be very interesting.:-)
My thought at the time was to get the older one and replace the speaker. Possibly to strengthen and / or enlarge the front.
Basically connect the above case to it. At that time there were only very expensive complete ones.
Best regards
Stenzel
Last edited by Stenzel-Germany; 10-02-2023 at 11:45 AM.
It's 8 liters.
.283 cubic foot. Real small, since it is just utilizing the side den over the factory liner. Not going to work for people who fancy big bass.
For me thats the only thing the high end Burmester option is missing...decent base.
I am aware of the SDAutosalon enclosure, but they were asking over $1,000 for it.
So, I went with more reasonable one from Basser, took about a little over two weeks for delivery at $200 total.
I am using Dynaudio Esotec 8 inch driver, and it sounds efficient, but waiting on Focal.
Stood up till late last night, trying to figure out static noise coming from Chanel 2. Found that it was not the hardware issue, it was Mobridge DSP setting oddly.
I am now into tweeking the DSP settings with RTA. Update coming soon.
For me thats the only thing the high end Burmester option is missing...decent base.
Hi,
My personal opinion on today's sound systems. In general.And especially "Burmester" in the GT 190
Sure these systems sounds better than 2 full range speakers on a 20W factory receiver in the 80's.
If you wanted a good sound system back then, you retrofitted it yourself (or had a specialist do it).
From many free components. In all price ranges. Easy.
Today the systems are highly integrated. It is usually no longer possible, to replace the head unit.
Retrofitting speakers/amplifiers is no longer easy. Especially with existing sound systems.
Everything is integrated. (MOST bus, warning signals, etc.)
There are quite good ready retrofit solutions for volume models. (e.g. W205)
With suitable higher quality speakers, fiting wiring harnesses, DSP processors, etc. But even here, you are limited.
There is nothing on rarer models.
The car manufacturers have also recognized the business by selling a "good" sound system at the same time.
Many new car buyers also have a horror of disassembling her new car and retrofitting something.
From the manufacturer, there are happy to pay a (too high?) surcharge.
But I think these are almost all very expensive shams.
Even if there are great names on it (Burmester, Bose, B&O, Infinity Harman/Kardon, etc.), it has nothing to do with high end and quality.
All the names are pure marketing. The components, are built where it is cheapest.
And the manufacturing is cheap: plastic bodies, plastic mounts, plastic cases, small magnets, cheap speaker surrounds and cones.
Amplifier often with DSP, but little is adjustable. Almost everything is predetermined.
Volume, balance, fader, bass, middle, treble, done.
All 50$ head units can do that :-)
Sound on the GT 190. There are 3 options:
1. Standard (no burmester):
(without 3200 USD Comand-Online possible)
2 x 2-way front speakers. (Tweeter, mid-bass in the footwell.)
These are connected directly to the Comand / APS 20 head unit.
(always with power amplifiers, with "Burmester" sound systems, be decoded)
As a music lover, in my opinion, the best choice when buy a new GT.
Choose a professional install with the saved money.
Fully configurable 12-channel ESP / power with amplifiers / 2 x 3-way frontsystem / rear fill / subwoofer.That's real high end. Due the 4 analogue inputs, only a 4 channel input mixer is required for the DSP.No expensive MOST 150 converter required.
2. Code 810 "Burmester Premium" :
(Only with 3200 USD Comand online)
Cost about 1600 USD extra.
10 speakers, 3-way front, center, 1 channel rear with 2 speakers, sub, additional 10-channel digital amplifier with fixed DSP.
Price/performance ratio just o.k.
3. Code 811 "Burmester High End" :
(Only with 3200 USD Comand online)
Cost about 5000 USD !!!! extra.
11 speakers 3-way front, 2-way center, 2-channel rear, sub, additional 11-channel digital amplifier with fixed DSP. additional sub amplifier.
The added value compared to the 810 is small. Simplified, think 20% (heard both with the same music)
However, the price is over 3 times the Premium !!!!!!.
Price/performance, very bad.
Loudspeakers from Italy. Amplifier from Hungary. Harnesses from Romania. Head unit > 2018 (digital) from China.
Not a single part is from Burmester. Dieter Burmester would turn in his grave. Or laugh. License fees are paid for sure.
Fun facts:
So that you can "recognize" the overpriced "High end" sound system, it has its own midrange covers. Marketing trick.
A real high-end speaker box builder (not even Burmester) would never put such sheet metal panels with mini holes in front of his midrange speakers.
The same screens (only with the "high-end" sound system) were already available in the SLS. At that time, with B&O lettering. :-)
Had compared the original Mercedes spare parts prices of all parts.
Really believed, that good quality parts from Burmester would be installed. :-)
e.g. the 6.5" footwell speaker, this is the only one that is reasonably well made and (without the sub) the most expensive.
Standard: $25
Premium: $40
High End: $65
Prices from my memory, (2016 or 2017)
The additional price of the 811 high-end individual components (loudspeakers, control unit) compared to the 810 premium version was around USD 500. In addition there was about 500 USD for the sub-amplifier and one 30A fuse,12 m additional wires. (2m 6mm² Sub amp power to rear sam, 8m 0,75mm² to center tweeter, 2m 1,0 mm² rear) All together an additional price of approx. 1000 USD.Those were the end customer spare parts prices!! MB's purchase price is much lower.Estimated at $300.Let's say the high end would have paid well at $2000.
With the usury $5000 "high-end" system, customers were really ripped off.
If you buy a used gt today.The prices back then, don't matter anymore. Always with Command and Burmester. With mods it's o.k.
If you want real high-end, sell the "Burmester" parts and retrofit real high-end parts.
Best regards
Stenzel
Last edited by Stenzel-Germany; 08-12-2022 at 05:59 PM.
I greatly value your opinion and you are a massive source of knowledge here @Stenzel-Germany but I have a different viewpoint on the Burmeister High End vs Premium.
A bit of background: I’m a musician and audiophile- my main system consists of large horns that I designed myself using field coil drivers. Overall, I’ve spent over $300K on the mainly stereo system.
The Burmeister High End is very impressive. I have no issues with the sound and I’m continuously impressed. It’s perfect for the environment. At about $5K, it’s well worth it.
The regular Burmeister was a disappointment. I agree with you here.
I had both Premium Burmester and Standard Burmester back to back on GT models. Premium Burmester was in my GTC Roadster and now the Standard on my GTR.
There is a noticeable difference on the Premium, which gives you an adequate bass and more power for the remaining speakers. However, it was not satisfying, subjective, I know. Highs were piercing, mids were weak, and bass rattled. Overall, added power definitely made the system audible during top down driving, but a better sound quality was left be desired. $5k option tag can be justified, if you want to keep it stock, and not worry about the car's electrical system with added aftermarket amps for an ok sound. On the flip side, I put out about $3500 and ended up with a satisfying system which I can adjust to my taste. I am not a professional by all means, I just like doing this kind of stuff on my own like Stenzel.
I do like the 3D Burmester, 15 speaker system on S550 and I would not touch that to modify.
If anyone listens to a well tuned after market system in a car, then it is hard to appreciate and be satisfied with the cost focused factory systems. You know the same goes for the home hifi systems. Once you listen to a high end home hifi, you will never buy Bose speakers :-)
Last edited by MasterJohn; 08-18-2022 at 12:02 PM.
I had both Premium Burmester and Standard Burmester back to back on GT models. Premium Burmester was in my GTC Roadster and now the Standard on my GTR.
There is a niceable difference on the Premium, which gives you an adequate bass and more power for the remaining speakers. However, it was not satisfying, subjective, I know. Highs were peircing, mids were weak, and bass rattled. Overall, added power definately made the system audible during top down driving, but a better sound quality was left be desired. $5k option tag can be justified, if you want to keep it stock, and not worry about the car's electrical system with added aftermarket amps for an ok sound. On the flip side, I put out about $3500 and ended up with a satisfying system which I can adjust to my taste. I am not a professional by all means, I just like doing this kind of stuff on my own like Stenzel.
I do like the 3D Burmester, 15 speaker system on S550 and I would not touch that to modify.
If anyone listens to a well tuned after market system in a car, it is hard to appreciate and be satisfied with the cost focused factory systems. You know the same goes for the home hifi systems. Once you listen to a high end home hifi, you will never buy Bose speakers :-)
just curious what the weak link is in the Burmester High End - I had thought it was missing deeper mids and base. Otherwise it feels loud and punchy enough - would you replace speakers and amp even with the high end or just do a more full range 10" sub?
Since inquiries came by PM, I copied the post below and added it. This way the information is together and visible to everyone.
Unfortunately, there is no plug and play for the GT. It requires some adjustments and custom builds.
Spacer rings, brackets, pulling cables, adapting to the car electronics.
Unfortunately, I took very few pictures here.
If you are interested, list the speakers I use. Speakers are made in Germany. I do not know they have dealers in the USA.
First. I can't say how the end result will sound with partial implementation.
During my conversion, the premium power amplifier was freed from the "load" of the subwoofer by installing an external amplifier.
The entire premium amplifier power supply path (now heavily oversized) is thereby relieved.
Has fewer voltage dips and only has to worry about the rest of the speakers.
But I believe that replacing the (really cheap) OEM speakers definitely brings a gain in quality.
The most important are the two front 3-way systems. It doesn't have to be the ETON system here.
There are enough quality speakers on the market. However, I describe the installation with the Eton, since I have done this.
Step 1:
6.5" / 165mm woofer (RSE 160) As a set with tweeter:
A spacer ring is required for installation for the required depth. Thickness here was 25mm (1")
M5 threaded bolts are permanently installed on the vehicle. (Bolt circle 4 x 165mm)
Drilled these holes and set them to the necessary depth with a countersink.
Sealed the spacer ring to the car with butyl. Then screw the speaker to the spacer.
Since the plastic grid and the complicated access behind the inner carpet bothered me, I mounted a matching metal grid and cut out the carpet to fit.
The MDF ring was therefore painted black and the sides "covered" with plastic tape.
Connection: On the vehicle side, normal 4.8mm and 2.8mm plugs were crimped on. (Never use these "squeeze" connectors)
Tweeter (from RSE 160):
This Tweeters are a very big gain, sound is a pleasure. In addition, the beam angle is adjustable.
"Premium" system has mesh over the tweeters. You can also use the new tweeters over there. I didn't want to go below that, but it's also possible.
These grids have been removed. Below is the same plastic part as the high-end system. These were appropriately covered with leather.
Tweeters were installed with a custom-made stainless steel washer.
Enclosed connector plugs would be crimped on the vehicle side.
Included crossovers are not needed.
Door Midrange (RSE 80) 80mm:
Here I went an easy way. The plastic basket from the OEM speakers (no loss) was cut off and used as a bracket. The rear LS came with sheet metal rings.
Adapted them and used them as reinforcement. The plug socket on it was left and the connection cable of the Eton LS was soldered to it.
No change on the vehicle side and you can simply remove the door panel.
Level 2:
2 way center (UG MB100 CNX) 100mm:
Eton has a 2-way replacement for the MB C-Class W 205 with 2 coils. same diameter. 2 of the 3 brackets have to be re-drilled. (Are simple rubber sleeves)
The two GT plugs don't fit either. You have to repin into the W205 connector housing. Connector housing: A0495458528 and A0495458428
Included crossover fits under the speaker. Sealing to the grille with a foam ring.
2 way rearfill/surround (RSX 80) 80mm:
This can simply be screwed on the cover. OEM is behind.
Seal openings with butyl. Sealing to the grid with foam rings.
Mount the enclosed crossovers.
Level 3:
Subwoofers. / Amplifier. Here the OEM is very weak. Is a bit more complex. See the whole thread.
Level 4:
DSP is even more complex. See the whole thread.
Best regards
Stenzel
Last edited by Stenzel-Germany; 09-30-2022 at 11:07 AM.
Since inquiries came by PM, I copied the post below and added it. This way the information is together and visible to everyone.
Unfortunately, there is no plug and play for the GT. It requires some adjustments and custom builds.
Spacer rings, brackets, pulling cables, adapting to the car electronics.
Unfortunately, I took very few pictures here.
If you are interested, list the speakers I use. Speakers are made in Germany. I do not know they have dealers in the USA.
First. I can't say how the end result will sound with partial implementation.
During my conversion, the premium power amplifier was freed from the "load" of the subwoofer by installing an external amplifier.
The entire premium amplifier power supply path (now heavily oversized) is thereby relieved.
Has fewer voltage dips and only has to worry about the rest of the speakers.
But I believe that replacing the (really cheap) OEM speakers definitely brings a gain in quality.
The most important are the two front 3-way systems. It doesn't have to be the ETON system here.
There are enough quality speakers on the market. However, I describe the installation with the Eton, since I have done this.
Step 1:
6.5" / 165mm woofer (RSE 160) As a set with tweeter:
A spacer ring is required for installation for the required depth. Thickness here was 25mm (1")
M5 threaded bolts are permanently installed on the vehicle. (Bolt circle 4 x 165mm)
Drilled these holes and set them to the necessary depth with a countersink.
Sealed the spacer ring to the car with butyl. Then screw the speaker to the spacer.
Since the plastic grid and the complicated access behind the inner carpet bothered me, I mounted a matching metal grid and cut out the carpet to fit.
The MDF ring was therefore painted black and the sides "covered" with plastic tape.
Connection: On the vehicle side, normal 4.8mm and 2.8mm plugs were crimped on. (Never use these "squeeze" connectors)
Tweeter (from RSE 160):
This Tweeters are a very big gain, sound is a pleasure. In addition, the beam angle is adjustable.
"Premium" system has mesh over the tweeters. You can also use the new tweeters over there. I didn't want to go below that, but it's also possible.
These grids have been removed. Below is the same plastic part as the high-end system. These were appropriately covered with leather.
Tweeters were installed with a custom-made stainless steel washer.
Enclosed connector plugs would be crimped on the vehicle side.
Included crossovers are not needed.
Door Midrange (RSE 80) 80mm:
Here I went an easy way. The plastic basket from the OEM speakers (no loss) was cut off and used as a bracket. The rear LS came with sheet metal rings.
Adapted them and used them as reinforcement. The plug socket on it was left and the connection cable of the Eton LS was soldered to it.
No change on the vehicle side and you can simply remove the door panel.
Level 2:
2 way center (UG MB100 CNX) 100mm:
Eton has a 2-way replacement for the MB C-Class W 205 with 2 coils. same diameter. 2 of the 3 brackets have to be re-drilled. (Are simple rubber sleeves)
The two GT plugs don't fit either. You have to repin into the W205 connector housing. Connector housing: A0495458528 and A0495458428
Included crossover fits under the speaker. Sealing to the grille with a foam ring.
2 way rearfill/surround (RSX 80) 80mm:
This can simply be screwed on the cover. OEM is behind.
Seal openings with butyl. Sealing to the grid with foam rings.
Mount the enclosed crossovers.
Level 3:
Subwoofers. / Amplifier. Here the OEM is very weak. Is a bit more complex. See the whole thread.
Level 4:
DSP is even more complex. See the whole thread.
Best regards
Stenzel
Hi Stenzel,
Very comprehensive and impressive! This has to be very helpful for anyone wanting to make these upgrades.
It does seem that Eton UG MB100 F speakers might be a direct plug n' play drop-in for the door mids and dash tweeters, and only need to find a suitable 165 bolt circle driver for the footwell speakers.
These do not fit the GT 190. They are also currently not available.
Apart from the original MB speakers, you won't find anything with a flat chassis and a 4 x 165 bolt circle.
Which sound system do you currently have installed?
07-30-2022, 07:18 PM
