argobourne

Double wishbone suspension - front and rear
getrag dual clutch gearbox thats fitted int he 458, california, ford GT
front-mid mounted twin turbo engine

I made this video about my AMG GT (and a few of my new mods) and several people chimed in that the AMG GT is not a super car. Some said only the AMG GT Black is... Well, that's the fun with the internet + keyboard opinions, right?
The AMG GT would be entry level as far as super cars go, but I think it qualifies.
Thoughts?

Video:

Orcbolg

For me personally, only the GT R and up are pushing into that territory, GT/S/C are just super sports.

reignz

I would only mention supercar starting with the GT R.

Skilly

Funny, we hold on calling it a Supercar, but the R8 Gen2 gets that status without much contest - is it really as simple as placement of the engine? The R8 certainly is not more performant.

Also the GTC is the same car by every measure to the GTR except a lego knob and a 300lb weight problem. I think cars have been blurring the line in what is or isn't for a while now and its very hard to classify exactly what is these days.

Orcbolg

Interestingly, the GTC seems to be 3sec + slower on lap times compared to the GT R, and just barely quicker or barely slower than the GTS on the same tracks.

GTC:
https://fastestlaps.com/models/merce...t-c-edition-50

GT R:
https://fastestlaps.com/models/mercedes-benz-amg-gt-r

GTS:
https://fastestlaps.com/models/mercedes-benz-amg-gts

Skilly

ah man, youre right I forgot to add in that list of weight and lego, the 2500 for a tune.

Orcbolg

Is a tune really enough to overcome a 3 second + lap difference?

superswiss

Depends on if there are enough straights to make it up with brute force power. The GT R has aero advantages over the GT C and gets ahead in the corners. Consider that the GT R Pro is primarily aero upgrades over the GT R. A tune doesn't make up for the lack of aero unless it can gain enough in the straights.

Skilly

I think you guys might be missing the Forrest for the trees.

To recap the GTR might be a Supercar but the GTC isn’t because it’s missing aero, a tune, and has a weight problem. All of this can be easily overcome (I’ve done it). So, then is it a Supercar or...? Maybe to some.

I don’t know myself, but I can say that the GTC was fun as all hell and sure felt like one.

Supercar is a really subjective definition. The criteria is all over the map these days and exists in some cars that would likely never fit the thought patterns - for example if straight line acceleration is a factor, does the Tesla count? If it’s top speed does the Bentley Continental Supersports count with 212 mph? Is it mid engine - why not the Toyota MR2 then? Or is it all decided with a lap time at Nuremberg?

I think the common definition of what is a Supercar has been warped with marketing and cutting edge engineering that has become mainstream. Today’s Hypercar might more likely be tomorrow’s Supercar....

carnut1

I have had these discussions many, many times over the years. What is a super car, you could argue most production cars are not. You could say price, you could say rarity. There are less 4C and Lotus Evora's than there are Ferrari 360's but most people would not say either is a supercar but when the 360 was first seen 23 years ago, pretty everyone called it a supercar. There are plenty of sports cars, sedans, SUV (and probably soon pickup trucks) that can do 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds. Do I think the 458, 488, or F8 is one, nope, R8 (nope) any GT (S, C, R, black) nope. A 918, or a LaFerrari or better yet almost any Koenigsegg, and then you are talking supercar. I have turned everyday cars into machines that would make the owners of expensive sports (talking 300K and up) cars envious, but are they supercars, once again no. There is a one of a kind 911 sitting in my garage it can outperform almost anything on the road, but it is more of a kit car than a 911 and though it cost as much as some so called supercars, it is not one. A super car combines all the things (rarity, performance, price) and that one other little thing called, you cant buy one unless you have an in with the company, that very special thing that says I can buy one but you cant. That is a supercar. If you ever get the chance to drive (I mean alone in the car to drive the way you want) a car like that, do not pass it up. Once you do you will either say 2 million for this are they crazy, or yup I get it now.

Skilly

Before I forget, as you label those cars as Supercars, then what is a Hypercar then??...but I digress.

Back to the topic. So....Carnut, an F8 isn't a Supercar but a LaFerrari is. OK. Let's unpack this one just for fun. Im guessing your marker for Supercar is exclusivity. Is that by price, or by production run? Does it have to be limited like the 918, or can it be by its self imposed limited production exclusivity, like Rolex does with watches. For Ferrari, as the example , how the production run of the F8, and SF90 are set up by limited without outright saying it. Oh, and let's consider the SF90, by every measure a better car to the LaFerrari, is it a Supercar? It isn't slated to have a limited production run, but because of its price point and the way those cars roll out of the factory (back to my Rolex comment) it might double the production of the 918 but not much more than that. Does that count? How about the Pista, or the Stradale version of the 360 you mention - limited, fast (even still), pricing still very strong (due to its limited availability); how come these aren't Supercars? Tesla Plaid is going to be exclusive, pricey, and performant, but I don't think anyone is going to bring themselves to calling that a Supercar, unless perhaps they break the word apart - 'that is a super car.'

Point being...unless there is a common, and agreed to definition, today there are a LOT of cars that could fit the bill, but we wouldn't call them Supercars. I think the minute that we have what we think is the definition, some manufacturer is going to warp it with some amazing spec. We live in an AWESOME time to grab cars that Supercar like right out of the classifieds, without necessarily having to pay Supercar prices.

MCLAMBO

actually the GT R PRO differences vs GT R are much more significant than just aero:
- Suspension up to 16 way adjustable coil cover dampers with individual settings for rebound, low speed, high speed compression, also ride height adjustable vs GT R adaptive dampers
- spherical ball joints in upper control arms vs rubber bushings
- 3 way adjustable carbon fiber front sway bar and hollow steel rear vs solid steel front and rear.
- carbon fiber rear subframe brace adding 7.5% in torsional stiffness
- recalibrated active engine and transmission mounts
- carbon ceramic brakes standard
- ultra-light forged wheels standard.
- 55 lb. weight reduction vs. standard GT R

Cheers

Skilly

i dont care what anyone says, that Pro is a Supercar!

superswiss

I do agree that supercar is a fairly loose definition and the categories have been blurred in general. Even what people call a sports car these days are really GT cars. A sports car is traditionally a sparsely equipped lightweight performance vehicle and not comfortable to drive long distances. Whereas a GT is a performance car that adds comfort for long distance driving. A true supercar is perhaps more along the lines of traditional sports cars. It's not something that you do a 500 mile road trip in as for one thing you have nowhere to put your luggage. The AMG GT as the name even implies is really a GT. Something like the GT R Pro less so as it is not very comfortable to drive, but it still has a boot with enough room for a weekend out of town. Keep in mind there is also GT racing, like GT3 for example and AMG does have the GT3 and GT4 cars for that. These are grand touring racing cars, so a GT R Pro is essentially a GT racing car for the road. The USA never quite understood the GT category. It's more of a European thing.

Beeast

I agree with Skilly on the sentiments with Carnut, regarding Supercar vs Hypercar.

Personally,

I feel that the GT R is a Supercar... I think 911 Turbo/GT3/ETC are Supercars, but 918 is a Hypercar... I think Ferrari has a good mix of Supercars, but La Ferrari is a Hypercar. Just my opinion.

FWIW some say the ZO6 is a supercar, I never looked at it that way.

Jezek

AMG GT is not a supercar

Just a sportscar.

Unfortunately that means it puts us in the same category as a Miata but hey what can you do 🤷🏽‍♂️😂

I do find it odd that people call the GTR, R8, etc a supercar but not the GT; doesn’t seem right imo. They should all be categorized as one or none.

Skilly

well, since you say so I guess we can close this thread down.

Wolfman

Would be interesting to see how these 3 cars would compare with the same Cup 2R tires...
That said, I struggle to see why anyone would call the GTR a supercar and not the GTC or vice versa. Name them Super Sport or Supercar but they are simply too similar.

Wolfman

Might as well ask the same about some $70k mid-engined Corvette which many call a supercar. Also, what 300lb weight problem are you talking about? The difference in weight between the two cars is 154lbs...

Orcbolg

I honestly don't really see the GT R/Pro as a full blown supercar, but the BS is. That said, the GT R has much more brand recognition, curb appeal, and presence when compared to the GT C, so even if the GT R was a supercar, the C just isn't there imo.

To me the Performante, SV/J, Pista, F8, 720S/765lt, Senna, GT2 RS, etc are current supercars. The R8, GT lineup, 911 turbo/gt3, etc don't make the cut. On top of that, cars definitely lose that status as they age, and end up as high performing exotics.

For me to consider something a supercar they need brand prestige, model recognition, some level of price exclusivity, must be an exotic, and top of the top performance specs, while being under $1mm msrp. Cars with all of that, that exceed $1mm, are limited production, or current halo cars, can end up in hypercar territory.

sodhigtc

I wonder how much time a gtc gains with the aero pack compared to without

Jezek

Mods lock it up, the mighty one has spoken 🔒

Acta_Non_Verba

Supercar
Hypercar
Exotic
etc.
This discussion comes up about every 6 months on every forum platform in which I participate. In fact, this is the second one on this platform since I've joined. There are no definition boundaries on any of these terms. It is simply in the "Eyes of the Beholder". It's a matter of how big the crowd is that comes running up to the car when it stops at an event (like a CC). It is a supercar if the crowd looking at it with ENVY thinks it is. There is a time element here too. The supercar that drew the crowd in 2015 is now passe at the same CC in 2021.

It's like a beautiful woman. Ask me to describe a beautiful woman and I'll answer - Don't know how to describe her, but I'll know her when I see her...and you might not agree with me.

UCIMBZ

What makes a model a "Supermodel"?

Beeast

*please include pics for discussion*