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I recently did my first track day in a new-to-me GTR Pro that's stock except for the addition of front/rear TiKT brake-cooling ducts (https://www.tikt.de/en/tuning/amg-gtr/brakes), front/rear TiKT/Pagid brake pads and changing to Motul 666 brake fluid.
The track-day temps were warm (about 30 deg C/85 deg F) and the track is known to be hard on both tires and brakes because (at least for my laps):
- over 20% of the time is spent braking at over 0.5 Gs
- over 2/3 of the time is spent with over 0.5 G forces on the tires (cornering/braking)
- peak G forces during braking and cornering regularly exceed 1.1 Gs
AMG's typical weakness is brake cooling ... engine cooling is stellar, brake cooling not so much. Even with my custom-added brake-cooling ducts on my C63 S, it took full-on race pads to be able to survive an entire track day on one set of front brake pads. Without the cooling ducts, there was no hope. Although the stock GTR Pro has some hokey air deflectors to help guide the air to the brakes, I had no faith that the stock brake setup would survive well (I removed the deflectors).
Given the huge cost of the carbon ceramic rotor parts and the understanding that it's mostly the heat that causes the rotors to degrade and require replacement (i.e., not friction wear), I "invested" in a full set of TiKT brake-cooling ducts with the expectation that the saving in pad/rotor costs will eventually result in a payback, not to mention "less worry, more fun" WRT brakes.
I've always used an infra-red temp-sensing gun to measure rotor temps at the track. My benchmark has been a BMW V8 sedan (similar to a C63 S) that has proper brake-cooling ducts and is driven aggressively. When pitting after cool-down lap(s), the BMW's front rotors are typically 225-275 deg C. With my custom brake-cooling ducts on the C63 S, its rotors would typically be about 50 deg C higher. Before the brake-cooling ducts, they would be approaching 400 deg C so I'd always drive up 'n down an access road before pitting.
During the first session with the GTR, I needed to slip into pit lane to reduce the passenger front tire (the most abused tire) by 3 PSI. I did this without any cool-down running and so also did a quick "temp-gun shoot" on all 4 rotors. I was amazed to see that they were all below 250 deg C (the C63 S would have been about double that!). When pitting at the end of sessions, after a cool-down lap, the rotor temps were all below 180 deg C, even in the heat of the afternoon!
So the TiKT brake-cooling ducts work _really_ well. There was less than 1 mm wear on the front pads and no measurable wear on the rear pads. As such, I should get another 4-6 track days on the same set of front pads (I will get more aggressive, so expect a little more wear in the future).
I also placed RaceTech temp stickers on the calipers and all 4 indicated that the calipers reached 143 deg C or over, but not 166 deg C ... so less than 1/2 the dry boiling point of the MOTUL 666 racing brake fluid (and even much less than the wet boiling point). The fact that all 4 were the same also indicates that the front/rear brakes seem well balanced.
Another side-benefit of cooler brakes is that I didn't have any issues with losing any taped-on wheel-balance weights. In the C63 I had to cover the weights with Gorilla Tape to prevent them from falling off because they got so hot from the hot-running brakes that the 2-sided tape would fail.
As a side comment, the other relatively good news is that the GTR's stock camber setting seems to be a good compromise for mixed street and track driving. New Cup 2 tires have 7.2 32nds of an inch of tread so, assuming the tread was 7/32 prior to the track day (about 3,400 km), I only used 2/32 of tread on the track day. As important, the tire wear across the tire treads was very even, being about 1/32" less wear in the center of the treads. This is expected as on-street wear with higher camber settings wears the inside of the tread and this track is known for destroying the outside edge (especially on the passenger-side tire), but higher camber settings help reduce the outside-edge tread wear during aggressive cornering. Also interesting is that the front and rear tires all have virtually the same wear, indicating that the tire sizing seems fairly well-balanced (assuming you're not always overpowering the rear-wheel traction).
They say there's no issues with debris getting into the brake-cooling ducts, but I'm thinking that's just a challenge for Mr. Murphy ... so I made some rock-guards out of some aluminum screening I had "in stock." In case anyone wants to do the same, here's what I did:
Hold a sheet of paper up to the front of the duct intake and press against the edge of the intake to create a visible pattern in the paper:
Cut the patterns a little larger to allow the screen to wrap around the edge of the intake:
Duplicate the front/rear patterns and lay them out on the screen material (if screen has a "side-ed-ness" do mirror-image layouts, otherwise the screen can be flipped) then tape the patterns to the screen for cutting:
Cut the screen pieces a little larger than the pattern:
Press the screen onto the intake edge and form the edges ... mark where cuts need to be made for folding and complete the cuts and folding then press and form for final contours:
Trim the folded edges, as required:
Drill small holes and use (4) small screws with washers to hold the screen in place:
The little rubber piece is a stick-on hard-rubber anti-scrape element (Sliplo):
Rear ducts are done the same way. For extra points, you can use some silicone sealer on the edges to make things look a little neater and help prevent any buzzing noises.
VERY nice, bud, and with evidence based data!
Exactly what I was planning on when i get my ducts - that GD* Murphy and his laws.
An alternative to the Amazon mesh screen linked above is from this company used in the past for other projects - https://www.customcargrills.com/prod...?prod=Perf-Hex - this will offer smaller openings of 7.33 x 6.35mm via true Hexagon (vs the Amazon 16 x 8mm Diamond or smaller, etc) for better protection, yet the "open area" is a very liberal 77% as quoted for better air flow through screen.
IMHO the TIKT ducts are a must for anyone who tracks the gtr/pro seriously. I was able to get 5-6 days out of the stock pads from them, and never had brake cooling issues (the stock pads would give up first).
Yes, I was going to do screens on the ducts too. I am getting a lot of very fine gravel collecting in the ducts. You can see it accumulating in the small gap between the rotor and the TIKT duct.
Also the screeching from rocks getting wedged is constant on every drive now.
... I am getting a lot of very fine gravel collecting in the ducts. You can see it accumulating in the small gap between the rotor and the TIKT duct. Also the screeching from rocks getting wedged is constant on every drive now.
Ouch, this is what I was afraid of. I just did the screens (i.e., after my track day) and didn't have any rocks present, but the idea of a rock damaging the carbon ceramic rotor is unnerving.
I also know what you mean by the debris-created screeching. At one of my track days, a Porsche pulled into the pits emitting such an apocalyptic screeching that he immediately drew a crowd. Fortunately it was only a rock lodged between his pad/rotor (and he had iron rotors), but the sound was scary/impressive ... and _loud_!
I'm a geek (so much so, I think the term is a compliment) ... and geeks like data! #;-) My small amount of data only helps verify the excellent instrumented videos that TiKT has produced. Those YouTube videos, along with confirming comments from others on this forum, are what convinced me to spend the non-trivial dollars for their product. I'm glad I did.
Originally Posted by MBNRG
An alternative to the Amazon mesh screen linked above is from this company used in the past for other projects - https://www.customcargrills.com/prod...?prod=Perf-Hex - this will offer smaller openings of 7.33 x 6.35mm via true Hexagon (vs the Amazon 16 x 8mm Diamond or smaller, etc) for better protection, yet the "open area" is a very liberal 77% as quoted for better air flow through screen.
I wholeheartedly agree. I would have preferred this product but, when I purchased the screen I (had "in stock" and so) used for this project, it was at the point in the pandemic where cross-border shipments were more than "iffy."
And the addition of the SLiPLO pad was also inspired.
... and left over from doing the front (you know, just in case ... and yes, they're still on after hitting 200 kph on most laps during my first track day):
Did I mention the ceramic coating on the carbon fiber _under_ the car (smoother, more slippery, more speed)? #;-)
Has anyone compared the Renntech cooling ducts to the Tilt? They both have great reputations.
I looked at the Renntech cooling "ducts" before deciding upon the TiKT ducts. First of all, from the product pictures, I wouldn't call the Renntech product "ducts" ... they're more like air-flow deflectors, not unlike the OEM ones on the GTR Pro. For what they are, they seemed to be rather overpriced. In addition, Renntech hasn't presented any data to show that their product is effective and I wasn't able to find any customer-posted evidence.
By comparison, there was a fair amount of engineering that when into the TiKT ducts (though, admittedly, they are quite expensive) and they've produced instrumented videos that provide a level of proof that their product is effective (which I've since experienced in my own case).
While I have significant respect for Renntech (Opus) products, I doubt that their brake-cooling ducts are anywhere near as effective as TiKT's. As a geek, I want data and the fact that TiKT provided data made my choice very clear.
I can't compare them directly, but I have had the Tikt ducts for about 1.5 years and track frequently. I am very happy with them in hot conditions (Florida), wouldn't trade them for any others. If you haven't seen these videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9G...93hULJOlVsgy5g, check them out. They describe the installation and benefits of the Tikt ducts.
I can't compare them directly, but I have had the Tikt ducts for about 1.5 years and track frequently. I am very happy with them in hot conditions (Florida), wouldn't trade them for any others. If you haven't seen these videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9G...93hULJOlVsgy5g, check them out. They describe the installation and benefits of the Tikt ducts.
Can you tell me the best source? I see the mostly German home site and the mostly Corvette USA Vengeance website. I’m sold!
Can you tell me the best source? I see the mostly German home site and the mostly Corvette USA Vengeance website. I’m sold!
I got mine through Vengeance Racing. David Crunkleton is the sales manager. David@vengeanceracing.net. I had a good experience with them, but it may be cheaper to source from Europe.
For me (in Canada), it was less expensive to order directly. TiKT's order process is not the best, however (i.e., they don't make it easy). You'll need to do a bank transfer. Be aware that they use a translator (https://www.deepl.com/Translator) so it's worthwhile to do a translate-to German then translate-from German to ensure your text still makes sense. Shipping was quite expensive, but also quick (once shipped).
07-24-2021, 04:41 PM
