AMG GT Black Series Cage Install
10-10-2021, 05:44 PM
#26
Member
Rear Shock rebound adjuster
Canucklehead: Can you tell me a bit about the shock adjuster noted in the pics? My car has the KW stage 4 and I have no good way of adjusting the rebound. I wondered about installing the long flexible adjusted thru a small hole. Is that what this was? Thx
Last edited by andymlow; 10-10-2021 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Typo
10-11-2021, 05:13 AM
#27
Super Member
This kind of shock adjuster are stock on GTR Pro shocks.
Kind regards
Stenzel
10-12-2021, 04:26 PM
#29
I mean would I have done it that way? No probably not but... Just kidding. I am new to the AMG GTx world but not new to fabrication, fast cars and bikes and stuff. And I am sure I am no different from many here (not as smart maybe as most of you) and I appreciate great work and that workmanship is fabulous. Thanks for posting that- it is a treat to see. Now I feel the need to find someone to sell me their BS.
10-15-2021, 10:48 AM
#35
I can't speak to the Viper and Ferrari seat design and if it has been designed to take the force as applied in a crash situation but if it came from the factory that way, I would hope that it was.
It is my understanding that the AMG seat design including airbags was designed for seatbelt use while the track package including the fixed buckets was designed for harnesses. The holes in the regular AMG seats are decorative and include plastic trim pieces. If this area of the seat has not been designed to dissipate the load appropriately, the potential additional loosening movement of the belts in an impact is not something you would want.
I know that we are talking about street cars here but the forces that they can create is above what some race cars deliver. When you understand the efforts that race engineers go to to manage belt position, angles and deflection to make sure that that a proper 5 point harness is installed and fits a driver correctly, you realize that this is far more complicated then just dropping a set of harnesses in. The install manual for belts is very intensive, especially if you are using a Hans device.
To be honest, I'm not sure that the quarter cage that AMG designed for the GT is 100% correct either. When you see the mounting points for the belts and the angles that it creates, it does not look correct. I have heard they may have adjusted this a bit in the Black Series but I have not been able to verify it yet.
At the end of the day, if AMG wanted harnesses to be used with the regular seats then they could have made this an option and the didn't. I didn't want anyone to get a false sense of security that throwing belts into a GT with regular seats makes it safer on the track. It may or it may not. Certainly having a cage seems better than not having one but in racing I have realized that sometimes it's the small details that make the difference between walking away and not.
My .02
It is my understanding that the AMG seat design including airbags was designed for seatbelt use while the track package including the fixed buckets was designed for harnesses. The holes in the regular AMG seats are decorative and include plastic trim pieces. If this area of the seat has not been designed to dissipate the load appropriately, the potential additional loosening movement of the belts in an impact is not something you would want.
I know that we are talking about street cars here but the forces that they can create is above what some race cars deliver. When you understand the efforts that race engineers go to to manage belt position, angles and deflection to make sure that that a proper 5 point harness is installed and fits a driver correctly, you realize that this is far more complicated then just dropping a set of harnesses in. The install manual for belts is very intensive, especially if you are using a Hans device.
To be honest, I'm not sure that the quarter cage that AMG designed for the GT is 100% correct either. When you see the mounting points for the belts and the angles that it creates, it does not look correct. I have heard they may have adjusted this a bit in the Black Series but I have not been able to verify it yet.
At the end of the day, if AMG wanted harnesses to be used with the regular seats then they could have made this an option and the didn't. I didn't want anyone to get a false sense of security that throwing belts into a GT with regular seats makes it safer on the track. It may or it may not. Certainly having a cage seems better than not having one but in racing I have realized that sometimes it's the small details that make the difference between walking away and not.
My .02
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MBNRG (10-15-2021),
Stenzel-Germany (03-30-2022)
10-15-2021, 12:15 PM
#36
Senior Member
I can't speak to the Viper and Ferrari seat design and if it has been designed to take the force as applied in a crash situation but if it came from the factory that way, I would hope that it was.
It is my understanding that the AMG seat design including airbags was designed for seatbelt use while the track package including the fixed buckets was designed for harnesses. The holes in the regular AMG seats are decorative and include plastic trim pieces. If this area of the seat has not been designed to dissipate the load appropriately, the potential additional loosening movement of the belts in an impact is not something you would want.
I know that we are talking about street cars here but the forces that they can create is above what some race cars deliver. When you understand the efforts that race engineers go to to manage belt position, angles and deflection to make sure that that a proper 5 point harness is installed and fits a driver correctly, you realize that this is far more complicated then just dropping a set of harnesses in. The install manual for belts is very intensive, especially if you are using a Hans device.
To be honest, I'm not sure that the quarter cage that AMG designed for the GT is 100% correct either. When you see the mounting points for the belts and the angles that it creates, it does not look correct. I have heard they may have adjusted this a bit in the Black Series but I have not been able to verify it yet.
At the end of the day, if AMG wanted harnesses to be used with the regular seats then they could have made this an option and the didn't. I didn't want anyone to get a false sense of security that throwing belts into a GT with regular seats makes it safer on the track. It may or it may not. Certainly having a cage seems better than not having one but in racing I have realized that sometimes it's the small details that make the difference between walking away and not.
My .02
It is my understanding that the AMG seat design including airbags was designed for seatbelt use while the track package including the fixed buckets was designed for harnesses. The holes in the regular AMG seats are decorative and include plastic trim pieces. If this area of the seat has not been designed to dissipate the load appropriately, the potential additional loosening movement of the belts in an impact is not something you would want.
I know that we are talking about street cars here but the forces that they can create is above what some race cars deliver. When you understand the efforts that race engineers go to to manage belt position, angles and deflection to make sure that that a proper 5 point harness is installed and fits a driver correctly, you realize that this is far more complicated then just dropping a set of harnesses in. The install manual for belts is very intensive, especially if you are using a Hans device.
To be honest, I'm not sure that the quarter cage that AMG designed for the GT is 100% correct either. When you see the mounting points for the belts and the angles that it creates, it does not look correct. I have heard they may have adjusted this a bit in the Black Series but I have not been able to verify it yet.
At the end of the day, if AMG wanted harnesses to be used with the regular seats then they could have made this an option and the didn't. I didn't want anyone to get a false sense of security that throwing belts into a GT with regular seats makes it safer on the track. It may or it may not. Certainly having a cage seems better than not having one but in racing I have realized that sometimes it's the small details that make the difference between walking away and not.
My .02
Visually, the two mentioned seats look way more robust than the MB seats.
Also, with the cage I built I did address much of the issues with the bad angles of the factory cage belt mounting locations. That created other issues that obviously MB wanted to steer clear of for the mass-market.
10-16-2021, 12:50 PM
#37
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‘24 BMW iX M60
AMG GTR Pro:
There are varying degrees of ‘safety’ when driving a street car on a roadcourse especially when we obtain the speeds that the cars of capable of doing now versus say 10-20 years ago.
One can make a good case that safety is enhanced with a partial cage/ harness restraint system even with the OEM seats here in the US. The fact that one is far more secure in one’s seat, and aren’t having to expend energy and conscious thought of trying to constantly stay seated correctly is a net positive. Caveat: One should always be wearing a HANS type device!
Yes its not a full cage and associated ‘race car’ systems but again, these are Street vehicles after all.
There are varying degrees of ‘safety’ when driving a street car on a roadcourse especially when we obtain the speeds that the cars of capable of doing now versus say 10-20 years ago.
One can make a good case that safety is enhanced with a partial cage/ harness restraint system even with the OEM seats here in the US. The fact that one is far more secure in one’s seat, and aren’t having to expend energy and conscious thought of trying to constantly stay seated correctly is a net positive. Caveat: One should always be wearing a HANS type device!
Yes its not a full cage and associated ‘race car’ systems but again, these are Street vehicles after all.
10-16-2021, 04:17 PM
#38
AMG GTR Pro:
There are varying degrees of ‘safety’ when driving a street car on a roadcourse especially when we obtain the speeds that the cars of capable of doing now versus say 10-20 years ago.
One can make a good case that safety is enhanced with a partial cage/ harness restraint system even with the OEM seats here in the US. The fact that one is far more secure in one’s seat, and aren’t having to expend energy and conscious thought of trying to constantly stay seated correctly is a net positive. Caveat: One should always be wearing a HANS type device!
Yes its not a full cage and associated ‘race car’ systems but again, these are Street vehicles after all.
There are varying degrees of ‘safety’ when driving a street car on a roadcourse especially when we obtain the speeds that the cars of capable of doing now versus say 10-20 years ago.
One can make a good case that safety is enhanced with a partial cage/ harness restraint system even with the OEM seats here in the US. The fact that one is far more secure in one’s seat, and aren’t having to expend energy and conscious thought of trying to constantly stay seated correctly is a net positive. Caveat: One should always be wearing a HANS type device!
Yes its not a full cage and associated ‘race car’ systems but again, these are Street vehicles after all.
Case in point, personally I would rather use a Hans that is designed to work with an OEM seatbelt, like the Simpson Hybrid system thank risk a Hans belt slip with a seat that deforms as it was not designed to have belts running through it. If that plastic cosmetic trim piece that the belts are running through breaks and one side of your Hans pops free, you will have a seriously bad day. I agree that a Hans is a must on the track, but if you are going to use one, be sure that all of the equipment surrounding it makes you safer. I have seen people at the track using a regular Hans with an OEM belt. A Hans with a 3 pt belt and an airbag could kill you in an accident that you could have survived.
These AMG seats are designed as a part of a safety system that includes multiple airbags. The cage and harnesses that the factory installs uses a different seat for a reason and even deletes some of the airbags.
I'm all for tracking our cars and being as safe as we can be. In general, I have cut most of my street car driving on the track out due to the safety equipment in my racecars. It has become to difficult to continue to remind myself that I am "just in a street car." :-)
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MBNRG (05-30-2022)
10-16-2021, 05:36 PM
#39
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‘24 BMW iX M60
Sure, being more securely buckled into your seat is a good thing, the issue that I see is when you mix and match safety measures in the name of being more safe and actually make yourself less safe.
Case in point, personally I would rather use a Hans that is designed to work with an OEM seatbelt, like the Simpson Hybrid system thank risk a Hans belt slip with a seat that deforms as it was not designed to have belts running through it. If that plastic cosmetic trim piece that the belts are running through breaks and one side of your Hans pops free, you will have a seriously bad day. I agree that a Hans is a must on the track, but if you are going to use one, be sure that all of the equipment surrounding it makes you safer. I have seen people at the track using a regular Hans with an OEM belt. A Hans with a 3 pt belt and an airbag could kill you in an accident that you could have survived.
These AMG seats are designed as a part of a safety system that includes multiple airbags. The cage and harnesses that the factory installs uses a different seat for a reason and even deletes some of the airbags.
I'm all for tracking our cars and being as safe as we can be. In general, I have cut most of my street car driving on the track out due to the safety equipment in my racecars. It has become to difficult to continue to remind myself that I am "just in a street car." :-)
Case in point, personally I would rather use a Hans that is designed to work with an OEM seatbelt, like the Simpson Hybrid system thank risk a Hans belt slip with a seat that deforms as it was not designed to have belts running through it. If that plastic cosmetic trim piece that the belts are running through breaks and one side of your Hans pops free, you will have a seriously bad day. I agree that a Hans is a must on the track, but if you are going to use one, be sure that all of the equipment surrounding it makes you safer. I have seen people at the track using a regular Hans with an OEM belt. A Hans with a 3 pt belt and an airbag could kill you in an accident that you could have survived.
These AMG seats are designed as a part of a safety system that includes multiple airbags. The cage and harnesses that the factory installs uses a different seat for a reason and even deletes some of the airbags.
I'm all for tracking our cars and being as safe as we can be. In general, I have cut most of my street car driving on the track out due to the safety equipment in my racecars. It has become to difficult to continue to remind myself that I am "just in a street car." :-)
I started out in HPDE’s in 1995 in a 189 hp 335iS. It was a fantastic car on track. But over the years there was always something faster and more powerful, and I ended up in a Nissan GTR; C7 Z06/7 and then the AMG GTR. The speeds I was running before Covid shut things down for a while last year was ridiculous for a street car, and frankly non survivable if I ran into concrete at > 130 mph I’m sure.
Knowing what I’ve sort of learned over the years, I should have bought a true race car once I realised how much fun road course driving was, even though
I would never have taken up the sport semi-professionally.
Regardless it, (an HPDE) is an extremely safe pursuit and certainly safer than being a moron on the street. And yes, I’ve done that too I’m sorry to say.
Bish
03-21-2022, 07:23 PM
#40
Senior Member
looks nice.
what is the weight of the roll cage?
It seems to be less than 10kg...22lbs
what is the weight of the roll cage?
It seems to be less than 10kg...22lbs
Last edited by mbjj57; 03-21-2022 at 11:04 PM.
03-22-2022, 06:57 PM
#41
Senior Member
Do you notice an improvement handling wise? (harsher comfort wise , chassis being stiffer...)
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03-29-2022, 03:21 AM
#44
Senior Member
03-29-2022, 11:38 PM
#45
Senior Member
03-31-2022, 12:01 AM
#46
Senior Member
Do you know the package dimensions and weight ?
please share pics once you get it
please share pics once you get it
04-01-2022, 11:05 PM
#48
Senior Member
04-03-2022, 02:09 PM
#49
Junior Member
Those are not considered cages!!!
You are all installing what is called a roll bar at best. A cage encloses the driver with door bars and a hoop that runs from the roll bar to the front with many cross braces and usually custom fabricated (welded with gussets) inside the car. Look inside a GT4 or GT3, those are cages.
Sorry - just couldn't help myself.
You are all installing what is called a roll bar at best. A cage encloses the driver with door bars and a hoop that runs from the roll bar to the front with many cross braces and usually custom fabricated (welded with gussets) inside the car. Look inside a GT4 or GT3, those are cages.
Sorry - just couldn't help myself.
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57 GTR (04-03-2022)
05-30-2022, 01:05 PM
#50
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2014 cls63 a amg. 2018 AMG GTR
Just got my 2018 GTR. The place I bought it from installed the Roll bar already. I def want a harness so I can use my Hanns. Sounds like I should not use the factory seats. Not quite supportive enough anyway. Love to use the Recaro Profi but I haven’t seen anyone do this successfully yet.
Will the track pack seats plug and play with a US car ? They look pretty good. Worried about fitment. I’m 6 2 240. Was hoping this would be more straight forward and people had this all figured out by now
Will the track pack seats plug and play with a US car ? They look pretty good. Worried about fitment. I’m 6 2 240. Was hoping this would be more straight forward and people had this all figured out by now
