trader114

I have read through these forums quite a bit and there seems to be a decent amount of talking about these two models. The performance numbers are similar with a slight edge to the R, but how much is simply tires? I would think that explains most of it, no?

I am looking to buy either a 2018 C edition 50 or an R and I am struggling to justify 15-20k premiums for the R. The TC knob seems cool to look at, but how often do you really need to dial in between 9 traction modes, even on a track? This will be probably drive. 2x per week to work and then on weekends and date nights.

I think my ownership history is relevant to answering the questions, and I have a fairly extensive car history ranging from a stock 14 GTR to a well modified 800whp GTR.. I owned a 991 turbo s and 991 gt3rs. I owned a 2019 C63s with renntech P1 and a 2020 m5 competition.. When talking comfort, I have experienced a wide range.

If I were to choose 1 car to drive for 1 hour, my al time favorite is the gt3rs.. however, my wife hated how loud it was and the carbon full bucket seats were rough to sit in for long periods of time.

she loved the turbo s, which I traded in for the gt3rs much to her dismay. I can handle most anything as far as ride stiffness, but she needs to be accepting of it when she is in it. For reference, she has a 20 e63 wagon. She likes speed and handling, but does t want to shake her brain the whole time.

Unfortunately stock is low and I don’t think I will be able to test either one.. I hate that they compare the gtc to the 911gts and not with the gt3 or turbo s as it seems they are better fits for comparison. To anyone who has driven the turbo s, gt3rs and either of these AMGs, how do you compare them in terms of acceleration, handling, and comfort.

mbjj57

Ride wise compared to the gtc:

the amg gtr has different suspension ( a bit lower) ride is quite the same but a little bit stiffer due to the sport cup2 tires (more rigid wall on the tire )

trader114

Is this stiffer like a 911 turbo s vs GT3RS or something just slightly stiffer. I don’t want to leave a ton of performance on the table, but in this case it doesn’t seem like enough to justify the cost difference.. am I off here?

I had the stock run flats on one of my gtrs and when I swapped out for pilot sports, it made the ride so much softer.

thebishman

From your post and if you’re not tracking the car, find a GTC.

mbjj57

I have the 2020 gtc ,

I would have bought the gtr in a blink of an eye if full leather seats and panoramic roof was an available option lol.

The sport cup 2 tires is not a deal breaker as you can easily change the tires. (for more ride comfort)

my friend has a gtr , both car drive ALMOST the same on the street .

I would say go with the gtr if you like the esthetic of the gtr better ( rear wing, rear diffuser , 3 exhaust tips , wider front end )

performance wise : same on the street.

Surge

The 911 comparison goes like this:
GTR Pro = GT3RS (kind of - the Pro doesn’t have more power than the GTR)
GTR = GT3
GTC = GT3 Touring
GTS = GTS(!)

The GTC/R share the same transmission (different ratios than the GT/S), turbos, rear wheel steer, etc. The GTR has the carbon composite fenders, and a bunch of suspension mods, and the active front apron.

It really comes down to how you will be using it. Track focused? Then get the GTR. Otherwise, get the GTC. The GTC will probably be more comfortable in C than your wife’s ‘20 E63 wagon, especially with the right tires (Pilot Sport 4S). It’s certainly more comfortable than my C63 507 coupe, in terms of suspension harshness.

Personally, I think the best looking version of the AMG GT is the non-GTR coupe. The fixed rear spoiler mars the lines, so I wanted the active spoiler. Also, the cabin can be very dark, with the narrow windshield and no glass roof, so the glass roof was a must have. As was a full leather interior. I’m not a fan of fake suede. So I didn’t even consider the GTR.

trader114

Awesome. This is the type of answer I was looking for. Now it’s time to lock it down. Thanks

Nam Nguyen

I owned, in the past, BMW6CP, C7Z06, 911.1TTS, R8V10+, GTC, and now GTR. I would say the GTR is the best car I have owned so far, a mix between the R8+ (Sounds just as good), 911TTS (Just as fast at speed), 911GT3 (Just as trackable), and the luxuries options of MB. I sold the GTC to get the GTR because of its exclusive look and drive.

Here are my takes on C vs R:
1. Exhaust notes S+ and R sound much different between the C and R.
2. The R looks much sharper compared to the C.
3. Ride quality is mostly the same for me.

Orcbolg

This is usually the takeaway from the folks I've seen who have owned both.

chris135b

Hi all,

Here is a review from Car and Driver comparing the GTC to the GT3. It's an interesting read. For those that have had both, what are your thoughts on the reviewers insights into the cars?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...rsche-911-gt3/

Stenzel-Germany

Hi,

the GTR already differs from the other GT models in a few details.

Torque tube is made of Kevlar / Carbone.
Axle beam struts are made of carbon.
Tunnel stiffening cross is a carbon cross and more stable.
Rear lower wishbone bearings are solid.
Suspension springs are adjustable in height.
Tires / rims are wider.
Better flowing cylinder heads.
Bigger turbos.
Less compression / more boost pressure.
Titanium muffler.
Less interior insulation.
Lighter with comparable equipment.
Although wider, the CW value is better.
surely a lot more

I drive a GTR as a DD. You can be really fast with it, but you can also drive very relaxed.
The bucket seats are also ultra comfortable. Long trips are not a problem. I really enjoy it.

However, I was only satisfied after a few modifications. Overall there are currently 80 120 small and large improvements.
Most of it is pure optics / habits or personal taste.

What increased the everyday suitability for me:

2 reversing LED lights retrofitted (original almost no illumination range)
Door exit lighting retrofitted (the AMG logo beamer looks good, but is practically inoperable)
Seat heating retrofitted (not available with bucket seats from MB)
Retrofitted inflatable lumbar supports. (I like it)
Seat covers made of textile (I just sit more comfortably on them, than on leather / Dynamica)
Rear switch module for the tailgate (keyless entry) retrofitted. (not available for the GTR from MB)
Big HiFi upgrade. Now I am happy with it. (Music is very important to me personally)

Tuning:
ECU / TCU software.
Stock, only 2nt Cat delete.
K&N Airfilter, not for Performance, i am lazy. :-)

The focus was not on maximum HP.
Increase in torque in the most frequently used speed range (for me 1100 - 5000 rpm) was more important to me.
Up to 140 ft / lbs more at the same rpm.
Max. Torque is now 750 ft / lbs at 3450rpm.
max. Wheel HP only +15 HP but 1000 rpm earlier. Now at 5180rpm
I am very happy with it.

The input measurement before the software changes, was very impressive. 625 ft / lbs at 3500.
But as a peak. Strongly sloping underneath

With the same driving style, (same roads, same speed) I now even need less gas.
I often drive longer distances. I like to take me time and drive very relaxed.
It also makes sense when there is a lot of traffic. I'm not permanently in a street war. :-)
Listen to music (also sing out loud :-)) Here my minimum consumption so far was 27.5 mpg. Measured not read.

It is not realy important, but a positive side effect.
Don't worry, the engine won't grow soot. My max consumption was already 4.5 mpg.

Kind regards

Stenzel

Surge

Surge

Great list and I’m interested in some of your modifications! One thing I would like to do is add rear Fog Lights, as in N America, the GT doesn’t have them, but every other MB does!

A few corrections:
- the driveshaft/torque tube is carbon on ALL GTs. On the GTR/GTR-Pro, the cover of the driveshaft is also carbon
- the turbos are the same size for the GTC and GTR
- I don’t think the suspension bearings are different and I don’t think the GTR has carbon suspension arms (none of the models do); but someone else can verify this

And something else, which a poster mentioned, there is no rear cargo cover in the GTR. I’m sure it can be added, however.

The GTR is way too harsh for the terrible roads we have here in Toronto. I gather you are blessed with nice roads where you live. Enjoy!

Stenzel-Germany

Hi,

I do not know the Canadian specifications. The US version has 2 rear fog lights? Integrated in the taillights?
At least there are additional LED elements there. But could also be the rear side markers. Illuminated sidemarker does not exist in Europe.

The European version has rear fog lights and reversing lights in one unit. Normally this unit sits down in the middle.
With the GTR through the center exhaust, this unit was moved up into the rear spoiler base plate. Perhaps that is why the reversing light does not illuminate far enough.

A few corrections: - the driveshaft / torque tube is carbon on ALL GTs. On the GTR / GTR-Pro, (and BS) the cover of the driveshaft is also carbon

torque tube = cover of the driveshaft

he turbos are the same size for the GTC and GTR

Shure, and the Pistons / Heads -

I don’t think the suspension bearings are different As far as I know:

As i know, (Know personality only GTR)
GTR on the Lower Rear Arm Uniball Bearings
GTR Pro upper and lower rear arms
BS has these everywhere

and I don't think the GTR has carbon suspension arms

Don't mean the suspension arms. I meant the diagonally mounted stiffening struts from the sills to the front axle beam.
Normally these are made of steel.


Few of my modifications:

The cargo cover was not standard equipment on the GTR / Pro / BS (for weight reasons). But at least in Germany it was available for an extra charge.
Although I think the GTR cover with the AMG logo looks nicer than the cargo cover "slot".

Retrofitted the cargo cover. Part Number: A190 810 00 09

Its a bolt on. However, I trimmed the original GTR cover a little on the side and attached it to the cargo cover with a rod hinge.
Absolutely not noticeable and just looks better.


Another details against DD.

Badly solved.The passenger floor mat is not attached to the interior carpet !!!!Why???because of two $ 1 plastic clips ???
Especially with the deep bucket seats, you support yourself with feet, when getting in and out. A must Retrofitt.
Had made new floor mats to fit. (By OEM manufacturer lengenfelder) Still had the org.MB floor clips. (Wrecked Car)

Ilumination:

e.g. interior. You certainly don't need a 512 colored change disco lighting. But storage compartments, shelves,footwells and door handles should already be illuminated today.
Every new small car has that. Retrofitted, with simple amber LEDs that match the color of switch lighting.

Trunk lighting. A joke. 1 LED light, mounted very high when the tailgate is open. And you make shadows for yourself.
Here I have retrofitted 2 original lights on the back wall, right and left. An alternative would be, mount it in the side panels.

Part Numbers:
LED Cargo Light: A000 906 43 01 / 9051 (9051 means Black)
Connector pins: A032 545 39 28 (2 per Light)
Connector housing: A037 545 59 28

By the way, the connector housings and pins fits all interior lights.


There is also no, rear red door lighting. A good security feature. Standard today. Retrofitted.


Also today almost near nobody knows this fact:
Oil quality, oil level, oil temperature - everything is available.
But the important information oil pressure, nonexistent. There is no longer even a simple pressure switch with a control lamp. (This has been the case with MB for almost 20 years)
Oil pressure instrument retrofitted.

The other instrument is exhaust gas temperature between the turbo and the cat. A good investment for turbo engines.
Especially when it comes to tuning.

Complete chrome removed:
All emblems exchanged for black or painted. Front star (Distronic plate) / front emplem / rear reflector / additional reversing lights darker glazed.
Grill struts covered in matt black. Door handles (keyless entry) with matching real carbon cover. Wheel covers exchanged.

Paint, Leather, Dynamica, LED steering wheel, a.s.o.

Pics better then words


Kind regards

Stenzel



1 of 26 retrofittet lights (This light was a present from a buddy)

Additional Door cable

Colored engine bay. Not the final version.

Exit lights. Now in cool white. Matching to Logo Beamer and doorsill lights. Red door light and amber led lights also visible.

cargo cover with GTR Cover: in

cargo cover with GTR Cover: out

Overall. Spezial floormats. Passenger side also with attachment.

Paintet rollcage, seat with textil (Pepita from porsche) and now with heating. "Recaro" stitching.

Oilpress / Exhaust Temp.

Front. GTR Pro stripes

Rear. AdditionalBacking lights. Left and Right from middle exhaust. Facelift taillights (Darker)

plastic, covered in Leather

plastic,covered in Leather

Tailgate cover, now in Dynamica

Detail

Surge

Hi Stenzel, wow! Really nice work! I especially love the oil pressure and temp gauges integrated where two air vents were! Very nice. Also love your seats! Unfortunately, those bucket seats are not available in N America, which is a shame, as they are an integral part of the GTR.

In North America, we do get the passenger side floor mat clips, but no rear fog light, and perhaps more interior lighting. I'm wondering if the wire harness has a plug for the rear fog light, and it's just a matter of buying the right reverse/fog light module, and installing the switch on the lower dash? I guess I will remove the rear reverse light (centrally mounted on the non-GTR models) and see.

MBNRG

Stenzel - The matching black/white hounds-tooth on those Recaro's, and addition of Dynamica on liftgate interior . . . very, very nice 👌

Stenzel-Germany

Hi,

Signal is transmitted from the light switch to the rear SAM via Can Bus. (SAM = part at the back left with the fuses)
All rear lights are controlled from here. That must then also be coded.

I don't think the cable is already there. When I retrofitted the reversing lights and the rear switch module, there was no cable.
For the sake of simplicity, I relocated a used rear bumper wiring harness from a GTC. (It is essential to compare that the donor vehicle also has all the existing and desired extras. Exept rear camera. This is a extra harness.) Have all needed plugs and only needed to do the new cables on the connector on the vehicle side
If you lack equipment, you don't have the cables.

Except for the door sill lighting. These cables with plugs are apparently always there. But still has to be coded.

No one need 4 Air Vents. :-) Oil pressure and temp gauges. Looks like almost original.
The illumination goes well with the speedometer unit. Amber, Red ring, red pointer.
Stepper drive, you can have the same start sequence.. (Pointer full deflection)
You can set alarm thresholds, including a buzzer. Like it.

But was not easy to do. In order to maintain the stability of both the gauge and the ventilation, I had to trim both.
Cheers to Dremel:-)

Here are a few pictures during the "construction". Destroyed this sentence while cutting it open.
The second sentence worked well. Now, i know were i can cut. :-) Was also later perfectly sealed.
Put a third as a reserve.

MalibuScott

Is the little pet car on the dashboard an option?

Stenzel-Germany

Hi,

Good eyes.
Not a option, a present from my daughter.

Kind Regards

Stenzel

Surge

Wow, incredible skills, @Stenzel-Germany !

Curious if when you lined your rear decklid with Alcantara, did you also do anything to reduce the squeaks that come from the rear hatch area? On mine it's not bad, but it's not completely silent either. I found that adjusting the spring loaded bump stops (A1907500000) so that the hatch sits about 1mm higher than the body fenders will reduce most of the sounds.

Stenzel-Germany

Hi,

Dont have squeaks. Not before. Not now.
But i am old and maybee i am half deaf. :-)

Thanks for your advice.

Before you raise the tailgate, o.k. 1 mm is not much now.
Have you ever tried to set the lock lower?

Kind Regards

Stenzel

Acta_Non_Verba

Stenzel - you are truly an Engineer and Artist as well. I very much like the gauges. That is very creative.

I always admire your posts!

All the Best!

Acta_Non_Verba

And, almost Forgot - One beautiful car you have!

Stenzel-Germany

Hi acta_non_verba.

Thanks for the very kind praise

Kind regards

Stenzel

Surge

Yes, I have. That causes more rattles/creaks, as the rear hatch is then allowed to vibrate on the latch. I also placed a strip of hockey/felt tape on the latch (the metal bar that the hatch locks on to), which reduced the noise.