fxrdoc

I had a GTS with pure turbos, downpipes and a tune. I bought it modified that way. I’ve moved up to a GTR which is currently stock. Can’t decide whether or not to tune….

Acta_Non_Verba

How are you going to use the GTR?

How did you use the mods in the GTS?

C2 Turbo

Have you driven a GTS without a tune and if not, I suggest you do?

How long did you own your GTS (time/miles) and have you had any issues ( repairs/reliability/dealer visits) with the mods in your GTS?

I think those 2 questions would give you the answer you are looking for.

fxrdoc

[QUOTE=C2 Turbo;8520580]Have you driven a GTS without a tune and if not, I suggest you do?

How long did you own your GTS (time/miles) and have you had any issues ( repairs/reliability/dealer visits) with the mods in your GTS?

I think those 2 questions would give you the answer you are looking for.[/QUOTE

i never drove a stock GTS for comparison. I had the GTS for 2 years and drove it hard without any issues. I do plan to track the GTR.

Acta_Non_Verba

If you're going to track the car a couple of questions only you can answer -

Can you out drive a stock GTR now?
and
What tracks?

If the car is more than your driving skills, based on that and the track length, gaining more performance isn't going to pay back for you and actually can work against you. This is especially true if it is a short track.

fxrdoc

[QUOTE=Acta_Non_Verba;8520617]If you're going to track the car a couple of questions only you can answer -

Can you out drive a stock GTR now?
and
What tracks?

If the car is more than your driving skills, based on that and the track length, gaining more performance isn't going to pay back for you and actually can work against you. This is especially true if it is a short track.[/QUOTE

i mainly track at NCM. Currently track a 16 GT3RS. About 6 track days per year. Been tracking 20 years.

Acta_Non_Verba

What course do you run there? What kind of speed are you getting now on the straight? Did you run the GTS on this course? If so, how did it do with the mods and heat?

I think with your experience, it's getting a feel for this car before you decide. If you really feel you have more to give than the car does on the straight...I would be conservative on the tune though. You'll breathe a little better catless and run a little cooler, but an aggressive tune is going to heat you back up. The "majority" of the tune on this platform is bumping the boost, but with boost comes more heat in a track situation.

It'd be a little different if you said you take it to the dragstrip every weekend, or you were a street racer. Then I'd say go big on the tune, skip the catless (unless a dedicated car).

Y.Haider

I bought my GTR completely stock and drove it a month and then ended up doing downpipes, tune and air intake

completely different animal now

Acta_Non_Verba

Everything came out of the tune. The stock intake is good for 1300hp, the catless DTs got you about 10 maybe 15 hp on the high side.

Pautab1

Interested in this topic too. I don’t want to go crazy but have debating on getting a stage 1 eurocharged tune that bumps up the hp to 625 and torque to 638 on my 16 GTS. I don’t want to go down pipes etc so not sure if I could just tune and keep everything as is. Plus, I imagine a stage 1 tune alone is worth it? (Eurocharged is a 2k cost for stage 1)

Acta_Non_Verba

If you really want a HP/TQ grab, it's the tune. I've been tuning cars for 13 years. Mfgrs always leave HP. From an engineering standpoint, they have to do that. You cannot design an engine capable of 1000 hp running at 100% and sell it commercially with a 4/5 year warranty, so they detune it and make it 700HP. I've seen even bad "tooners" get hp. Not good HP, but it's not hard to find in the tune. You pay a price for it, but a good tuner knows how to extract how you're going to use the HP and gives you both more performance and protection as well.

On the peripherals (intake/exhaust) in all the tunes I've done I've only found a very small number of intakes that couldn't handle more HP, the kind of HP that comes strictly from a tune with no internal upgrades. Yet the aftermarket companies selling these make a fortune convincing the uneducated their "CIA" can reduce air charge temps and improve flow (A joke in so many cases and actually the opposite in some). All they have to do is say it and the "believers" come with their money. And, if you know dynos, you can produce a dyno sheet to support ANY argument.

Exhausts do vary, and some platforms benefit from exhaust mods such as CAT deletes, headers, etc., but not this platform. Not unless you're going for some very big numbers with internals upgrades etc.

This GTR platform is almost perfect. It has the correct internals, compression ratio, etc., for FI. The CATS are better than most I've seen on other platforms. Here too the aftermarket sellers have done one heck of a job convincing the uneducated to spend money doing the catless DTs. It's too bad in a way, and good in another ways. Keeps the cash flowing and I'm happy to see some making money in this industry.

Stenzel-Germany

Hi Acta,

You got it straight to the point.

"Paper values" rarely represent reality. Most of the time, an HP value is advertised.
The first thing someone says with tuning is: "I have XXX HP".

How and where the torque develops is the only decisive factor for drivability on the road.
Unfortunately, that doesn't sell as well.

Whether a tuner, for example, also uses the safety devices of an ECU / TCU correctly, or bypasses them in order to deliver a "high" value, is not in any performance measurement curve.


Kind regards

Stenzel

speadracer08

Acta & Stenzel
What are your thoughts on removing the secondary cats? I understand they generate a lot of heat.

Jan

Acta_Non_Verba

Mr. Stenzel is the master on this. He will give you good advice.

AndrewFerg

I have a simple ECU tune (OE Tuning) on my 2018 GTC. I love it for the street. It's not just the additional / more available torque / HP, it's the "liveliness" it brings to the car. It makes it feel lighter and more nimble as the power to weight ratio gets into what I consider a sweet spot. I will track it once the rains stop. With a talented foot on the gas pedal, more horsepower is always better.

thebishman

[QUOTE=fxrdoc;8520585]I drove my ‘18 GTR extensively on track and out of the box it is a spectacular road course vehicle; as you’d expect as that was it’s purpose. But even though I’ve been doing HPDEs for 25 years, I do not think the car needs any more hp. Better tyres; brake pads; brake cooling; brake fluid; a true roll bar/race seat/belts, etc. yes.

If you are at least a semi-pro road course driver, then perhaps a further 100hp might be useful to you, but remember that the car is actually putting out >600 hp stock versus the 577hp(?) that MB advertised it with.

Pautab1

[QUOTE=thebishman;8521106]I’m curious to hear your thoughts on the GTS. Understanding that the GTR was built for the track, do you think a GTS should be tuned to be where the GTR is stock?

Acta_Non_Verba

[QUOTE=thebishman;8521106]This was the position I was taking in responding in the first few posts.

Bish, you've put it more elegantly and succinctly than I did.

speadracer08

Stenzel
What are your thoughts on removing the secondary cats? I understand they generate a lot of heat.
Is there a Pro or Con to removing versus leaving exhaust original?

Jan

AMG 17GT

The reality is manufacturers are in the tuning game more than anyone. The GT and GTS were the exact same engine and the only difference was software. Porsche, Audi etc they all upsell it for thousands $$$.

Acta_Non_Verba

The difference between the GT and the GTS is 0.1 Bar (1/10th) in boost in the tune. It's an extra 1.5 psi in the GTS.

Acta_Non_Verba

Stenzel posted on the secondary cat delete recently. Guess he hasn't been around in a few days, but he'll check in again soon. You might find his post with a search.

I'm terrible with searching on these forums, but I believe it was on another thread about catless downtubes. There are a few.

Pautab1

Any thoughts on the eurocharged ECU tune? Looking through the forum and seems to have positive feedback from the forums,

Orcbolg

One of the best bang for the buck tunes imo. Contact@loungn14 and see if they can hook you up with a promo price. I've had mine Eurocharged tuned for 2 and a half year, and about 18k miles.

Pautab1

Awesome! Makes a big difference in acceleration? Did you keep it stock for a little or go straight to tune?