I drove 3 laps, I stopped my car in the paddock, I measured the disc and caliper temperature.
Tikt side : the temperature was around 285°C-296°C for the disc, around 130°C for the caliper
Aluminium deflector : the temperature was around 255°C-263"C for the disc, 106°C for the caliper

Then I removed the aluminium deflector by cutting the 3 plastic zip.

I drove 3 laps, I stopped my car in the paddock, I measured the disc and caliper temperature.
Tikt side : the temperature was around 283°C-295°C for the disc, around 130°C for the caliper
Nothing : the temperature was around 316°C-326°C for the disc, around 130°C for the caliper.

Before my track test, I drove my car in the mountains just to make sure the deflector was properly installed, and that it was not touching anywhere.
I measured a significant temperature difference in favor of the aluminum scoop.
Around 180°C for the aluminum and 200°C for the Tikt, and the caliper on the Tikt side was much hotter.

I think Tikt cools the disc at the expense of the caliper.
The air inlet surface of the Tikt is less important than with the aluminum scoop.

I'll be curious to see the GTR Pro scoops.

 

Ok, this is about what I imagined. For relevant results you would need to perform measurement like TIKT did - with sensors mounted on the upright and log 20 times per second - only that way you get to see what is really happening under braking and in a few seconds after which is really important.
Temperatures in the pit are irrelevant and yes - with the duct it's likely to be a bit hotter as it's effectively reflecting heat back to rotor and calliper and restricting convective flow.

 

Why not measure the real-time temperature of the calipers, the inner face of the disc, the outer face of the disc, as well as the temperature of the brake oil?

Everyone is free to conclude what they want.

I gave my opinion.
With stock brakes and Tikt duct you are limited to 2 laps of the track.
Tikt has a smaller air inlet surface than a scoop.
Tikt blocks the air flow to the caliper, maybe a scoop should be added like:
https://www.speedengineering.de/en/p...et-front-axle/

 

Outer face of the rotor is a bit tricky due to sensor positioning. Brake fluid temp is basically the same as caliper body as it's not a recirculating system. Bringing air in-between pad and calliper is what helps.

You can gave a look at this video which explains how ducts work:


Maybe something else was wrong in your setup as being limited to 2 laps with TIKT ducts is just not right. All fast guys run them and they were even the choce for F1 safety car back in the days.

 

That's why pics are so important. Perhaps the heat shield was installed as well which would cancel out much of the airflow (no accusation but the results appear unusual). The measured rotor temps also don't seem to be particularly high...

 

I have no overheating issues with my simple aluminum deflector, and I don't think people with ANSIX have either.


I have nothing against Tikt.
But their scoop does not solve the overheating problem by itself.
Before or after the Tikt scoop on original pads and original fluid, I had no difference, after 2 laps no more brakes (-30° it's still better than nothing)
To

In their video, nothing proves that Tikt is better than an aluminum scoop or an ANSIX scoop.
They prove that the temperature is better with Tikt than with the heat shield and without a deflector.

With my temperature measurements, I show that the energy stored in the disc is greater with Tikt, which implies that the average temperature of the disc is higher with the Tikt compared to a scoop, I conclude that deflectors on the triangle are better than with the Tikts.

 

I know they did comparison measurements with other aftermarket brands as well and pro and black series upgrades. Probably didn't want to post things with names in respect of professional policy 😉

On black series they leave some of the original components as adition to the ducts.

 

I run the Ansix deflectors on my carbon disc setup with Castrol SRF and stock pads on the track. Never tracked the GTR without the Ansix setup. 3 different drivers, driving relatively hard for a HPDE, we are all instructors. Never had a brake fading issue. A year ago same track same drivers, had issues with the GT3 stock setup so I moved up to the AP racing a J hooks with Ferodo 3.12 pads. Ansix customer service is not the best but their product seems to perform adequately. Enjoy the videos.

 

Once again, my post was not intended to create a debate about Tikt or not Tikt.
I wanted to share my perspective on the AMG GTR compared to my previous cars.

The AMG GTR is the best compromise between the ferocious engine of the Camaro ZL1 and the agility of a Porsche GT3.
Its biggest issue is the brakes, followed by the suspension, which bounces too much between the front and rear during acceleration and braking phases.

I solved the brake issue with simple aluminum scoops, DS1.11 brake pads, braided stainless steel brake lines, and RBF700 brake fluid.
I can now drive for hours without having any brake issues.

Regarding the suspension, I saw on this forum that someone solved the issue with stiffer KW springs, without having to change the suspension.But I remain skeptical, I’d need to see more opinions.

 

I wonder if we can motivate a "suspension tuner" to develop a better set of suspension programs for our cars. The good folks at DSC Suspension developed a game changer SW/HW solution for the 991.1 generation GT3 which is game changing virtually eliminating diver during braking and acceleration and reacting much faster to the conditions.

 

I run front and rear TiKT brake cooling ducts on my GTR Pro. I regularly take measurements when returning to the pits after a session. I regularly run on a track that is short (<1:20 laps) and has 3 major and 2 other braking events per lap so there's little time for brakes to cool. I also run max-temp stickers on my calipers with stickers on both top and bottom of the front calipers. I record tire/brake-pad wear and brake-caliper temp readings after each track day. The reason I purchased the TiKT ducts was to save money by reducing the heat-caused chemical degradation of the car's carbon ceramic rotors. This is what my comments are based upon.

My rotor temps are always down to less than 250 deg C, even on a very hot day, after 1 cool-down lap. I often push for 5-8 consecutive laps on our brake-brutal local track. Many (non-German) cars are often limited to 2 or 3 push laps on this track, before running into heat issues.

After multiple years of track days, the temp-stickers on my front calipers show:
- Top: at least 180 deg C but below 210 deg C
- Bottom: at least 210 deg C but below 232 deg C
I run MOTUL 660 fluid and have never had any brake-fade or pedal issues.

At least when running carbon ceramic rotors, I'd worry much more about the peak braking temperatures and the duration of those peaks much more than I'd worry about the lower/average temps as that is what is going to cause more chemical degradation.

Simply put, my experience with the TiKT brake-cooling ducts do not match your experiences. I have to wonder whether yours were installed correctly as TiKT states that the duct-to-caliper gap is quite critical.

 

Do you have any pictures of the original scoops of the GTR PRO ?
Did you measure the temperatures by leaving the original scoop of the GTR PRO(without heatshield) on one side and the Tikt scoop on the other side?

 

I just ordered 10 x temp-stickers, I will have a values to provide in a few weeks.
I have steel discs, I don't know if the temperatures are comparable.

 

[1] I don't, but there are some decent ones in this BaT listing:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-amg-gt-r-pro/

[2] No. I put the TiKT ducts on prior to running any track days. My experience with AMGs is that they are very bad for brake cooling. My C63 S, on our brake-brutal local track, took new EBC bluestuff brake pads down to the metal backing about half-way into the second 20-min session! I didn't believe the Pro's stock deflectors would work very well (others have stated TiKT ducts were a significant improvement over those) and wanted to protect the CCB rotors. I removed, but kept, the OEM deflector parts before installing the TiKT ducts. I also am a great believer in data and a consistent collection of well-reported experiences from others so was very willing to pay the price of the TiKT ducts.

I hope it doesn't seem like people are trying to "gang up" on you regarding this. I think we all agree that AMG's brake cooling is normally very lacking (on their road cars) and we'd all like to see an inexpensive option that works well. It's just that your experience is a significant outlier in a reasonable number of consistent experiences had by others ... though that doesn't necessarily make it invalid.

With my C63 S, I spent considerable time making some brake-cooling ducts (documented in some posts in this forum) and did initially try some simple deflectors which, essentially, did little good. Of course the aero under the front of the C63 S is likely quite different from the GT-series cars so, again, maybe not a valid comparison.

For my part, I think the TiKT ducts are performing very well and the carbon ceramic rotors seem to be lasting well ... I record their readings after each track day using a Carboteq tool. It's starting to look like they may last 40-50 track days, but only time will tell as it's unknown whether the degradation is linear or not.

I look forward to seeing you caliper temps ... oh, and thanks for the nice comparison that started all this. #;-))

 

Most of the GT3 guys I meet in Norcal track events swap their ceramic rotors to GiroDisc for the track. At fast enough speeds, Carbons are not a good proposition in terms of performance vs the cost. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...n-says-porsche By the way, a significant cooling gain regardless of Tikt or brake scoop setup, is the removal of the heat shields.

 

That may be true on GT3 cars, but it's completely unknown on the GTR series as there's no data on how long carbon ceramic rotors will last for track running. From what I've read about how often people have to replace the iron rotors, if the CCB rotors actually do last for 40+ track days, they may actually have a lesser running cost (and a lot less maintenance).

Again, given that it's the high/peak heat temps that "wear" the CCB rotors, their life will very much depend upon the level of heat management ... which was my thinking with the TiKT cooling ducts. There's also the issue (which I've discussed in various posts) of evaluating the CCB rotors. The only accurate way to do so is via the (very expensive) Carboteq tool. I wrote (and have posted) a white paper explaining why the normal WIS-specified strategy is not accurate. Using the "marker squares" WIS strategy, my CCB rotors would have been replaced long ago but the Carboteq readings show they are less than 1/2 way along the delta between new and low/worn-out values.

If by "heat shields" you mean the backing plate on the inside behind the rotors, that's removed when the TiKT brake cooling ducts are installed (or the TiKT ducts would be very ineffective, if you could even somehow get them installed over the backing plates).