atl2nyc

Now that I'm back in Atlanta and actually have a driveway where I can hand wash my car whenever I want to, I find myself washing my car every weekend. At the max, I may drive 150 miles in a week. Assuming one is using the proper materials to wash and dry the car, is it possible to wash a car too much?

Because of all the construction going in my immediate area, I feel compelled to wash it every week. My car is about 4 months old, but the other I day I noticed some swirl marks in the paint. My car is obsidian black, so I know it can't be avoided, but I was distrurbed nonetheless when I saw the swirls.

I've been using Meguiar's NXT products and microfiber towels that I bought from AutoZone. I'm thinking the the quality of the AutoZone towels may be the source of the problem, so I just ordered and received a new set of microfiber towels and applicators (thanks Detailed Image!).

So two questions:
Is washing my car every week excessive?
Any ideas as to what I can do to eliminate the swirls?

j_belll

i wash mine every weekend. don't care what my neighbors think lol, and the swirls i think detailing takes care of? i've got my car detailed once and i think it took care of the swirls.

Kar don

you are getting swirls because of your washing method... especially from washing off heavy construction dust. You need to fully rinse your wash mitt in water every 1/2 panel at least with a black car. I do this with my black cars and do not get swirls. Also always use light pressure when toweling, and ake sure to pull the tags off the microfiber towels. Please read the sticky threads i wrote for more details.

atl2nyc

I've been following the washing instructions laid out on the forum, so i am continually washing and priming my mitts using the 3 bucket method. And I even make it a point to use different wash mits on the lower boday panels.

I'll take your point about towelling to heart though, as I think I press pretty firmly while drying. And good point about pulling off the tags, I never thought of that one.

The swirl marks aren't excessive, and I really only have them on my trunk. But I want to prevent the situation from getting any worse.

I'm gonna break out the clay bar, polish and wax next weekend and see if that gets things looking show room quality...

TOGWT

I live (part time) on a beach, wait let me re-phrase that, I live part time in a beach front property in FL and our vehicles are always covered in sand. I use a foam gun to ensure I don't 'sand blast' the finish.

Foam Spray Gun:
To remove soils the surface tension that bonds them must be released, then the soils encapsulated and held in suspension to be rinsed away without redeposit or leaving a residue. The low surface tension improves the cleaning process by increasing the surface wetting ability; this provides a more intimate contact between the surface and the cleaning agents.

How can you remove abrasive dirt from a paint film surface without causing marring/scratches? (Butchers® Shower Foam Gun - http://www.messnerinc.com/webapp/cat...em=BAQ-4165900) Fill the container with a quality car wash solution (Stage One Prewash-http://www.stratmosphere.com/STAGE/index.htm or Zaino Z7 Car Wash) preferably one that that contains an amino functional surfactants; this is defined as a material that can greatly reduce the surface tension of water when used in very low concentrations

Mixing liquid soap (preferably one that contains glycerine or oil to provide lubrication) and water, and them adding air will produce foam, which becomes a Sequestant (Sequester [: to hold in solution) which encapsulates the soils (dirt / grit / sand / etc) and enables their removal without intimate contact with the paint surface, minimizing surface marring or scratches. By using a pH balanced ( to help preserve your wax /sealant ) foam wash will help to remove damaging dirt particles from your paint it's also provides a cushion (foam) to enable a towel to glide just above the surface to avoid rubbing any dirt /grit into your paint finish.

Methodology- Select a suitable dilution setting of the five available. Take your time and flow the foam over each panel, allow to dwell for about 10 minutes or so, then agitate with a sheepskin mitt or a foam core waffle weave Microfiber towel using the foam gun in one hand, and the mitt in the other, once all of the panels have been completed, rinse vehicle with clean water and dry thoroughly.

Nickc0844

Hey, good to see another Atlantian. I recently sold the bulk of my detailing business, and am an avid wash nut such as yourself.

However, it is tedious to bust everything out on a weekly basis. Have you considered a waterless wash? Poorboy's Spray and Wipe is an excellent alternative. I have been using this stuff for years on my own cars and clients that seldomly drive. While I do not suggest using it on a car that has not been washed in some weeks, it's a great time saving tool for people like me and you; the car is basically clean, but just needs a little TLC.

As for your swirls, like you said, on black it is inevitable. I just polished out my Obsidian this weekend (great weather, huh?). So after using a claybar from Adam's Polishes, I then went with Menzerna Intensive Polish on the rotary polisher with an Edge green pad. From there, I went with Menzerna Final Polish on the Porter Cable (PC) polisher with an Edge Blue pad. This detailing regimen got my 2003 E500 Obsidian Black to about 97% swirl free.

To protect, I then kept it in the Menzerna family and went to Menzerna's Full Molecular Jacket Sealant. I also really like Klasse Sealant Glaze, and thinks it offers more protection that FMJ. After which, I topped it off with a great carnuaba paste called Pinnacle Souveran. The results are awesome, and having resources such as Detailed Image makes it great.

The polishing part comes natural to me, but that is because I went through the proper training and have done thousands of vehicles. It can be accomplished by a "noob", but will take some time to perfect. If you decide to go with the second route, Detailed Image is a great place to buy products at a fair price.

Best of luck to you!

atl2nyc

TOGWT and Nickc0844 - thanks for the detailed reponses. A couple of question for you guys though. If I use the foam spray gun and use a mixture of car wash solution and liquid soap, won't that cause problems? I keep hearing that liquid dish soap is not ideal for use on a car's finish.

Also, I don't have a porter cable (though I am now considering making the investment), so if I do the polish, seal and wax by hand, can I expect good results. Again, the scratches now are only minor.

As for the waterless wash, is that the same as a quick detailer? I use the Meguiar's NXT quick detailer from time to time mid-week. Does that have the same effect, or is that one of the reasons I am seeing swirl marks?

Nickc0844

Hey ATL,

You are absolutely welcome. I don't mean to step in for Jon, but I think I see your confusion. Jon meant any car wash liquid soap. The "liquid" of the soap vs. a powder soap (not popular) mixed with air will create the foam. I would only suggest using something like Dawn once a year and at the beginning of a full detail (clay, polish, seal, wax).

The PC is a good investment, and probably will run in the neighborhood of $150-$200 for it and a good set of pads. However, if you are considering doing this by hand, you will need pads of varying surfaces (polishing cotton vs. finishing cotton vs. microfiber) and polishes of varying abrasiveness. After busting your ***, the results tend to be ok at best, and your hands hurt for a week thereafter.

As much as you like to detail, the PC semms to be a good option. If you find you're not removing as much as you would like, attribute it to the following: 1) Technique--this will take time to evolve 2) Product choice--perhaps increasing your arsonnel will help 3) Heat--The PC is safe from burning your paint because it does not create much heat at all. The Rotary polisher is what the pros typically start off with because it has the ability to create heat which breaks down abrasives and creates a better "polishing" effect. After which, "real" pros go level down to a PC to remove any marring or holograms left by the previous stage. Definitely not something I would recommend for you at this stage. Also, your car is a 2007, so the surface scratches/swirls should not be deep.

As for the waterless wash....simlar, but definitely not the same. The stuff from Poorboys has a lot of surfectants and emulsifiers in there. In essence, it is encapulating the foreign particles on the surface of your car as you wipe, thus, creating a barrier before scratching. It also does not leave anything behind, like a Meguiar's product, so you can have a sealant or wax set properly afterwards. I like the Meg's product, but certainly not for this case. If you want something that is in between a waterless wash and quick detailer, I prefer the Adam's Detail Spray. It has similar properties as the Poorboy's product, but also leaves a sweet shine. It's also among the easiest products I've ever worked with.

I hope that helps you out a bit more.

C2304Bunz

I wash mine every weekend as well. I was told by my MB service center to not wash more than 1 time per week or else you will excessively deplete the clear coat and need to get it reapplied sooner.

TOGWT

Never was the American expression more suited to a situation---BS

Polish is abrasive and can remove an excess of clear coat if used too often.
If washing a cars paint would 'deplete' the paint surface you would need to protect it from rain otherwise the paint would wash off!!


Liquid soap pH 8.0 should be used, not liquid detergent pH12.8 as it requires hot water to remove oils / grease from cooking utensiles (P&C advise against its use for vehicle cleaning) Can you tell I have a 'thing' about using Dawn etc for cars

C2304Bunz

I was told it was an extremely gradual depletion of the clear coating, not the paint. Although one would affect the other over time if the impact was great enough.

Anyways, this thread is the first I've EVER seen/heard of using Dawn (or other dish washing liquids) on a car? Can someone explain why it's used and how often?

TOGWT

I was told it was an extremely gradual depletion of the clear coating, not the paint. Although one would affect the other over time if the impact was great enough.

Clear coat is PAINT but without the addition of a colour additive

Anyways, this thread is the first I've EVER seen/heard of using Dawn (or other dish washing liquids) on a car? Can someone explain why it's used and how often?

NEVER

Greg@DI

Some people use Dawn or dish liquid soap because it has strong stripping power to remove old wax or sealant. Unfortunately the strong agents used in these soaps can also have harmful affects on the clear coat, trim pieces and more. The damage is usually more prevalent with repeated usage but generally I don't recommend using these kinds of soaps. I recommend a more gentle shampoo that has conditioners in it for safer washing. We carry several automotive safe shampoos here if you'd like to see some examples. Let us know if you have any other questions.

Greg @ Detailed Image

C2304Bunz

Thanks for the explanation! I had figured dish-washing liquid would be too abrasive for use on automotive surfaces. I recently bought some car shampoo that is wash with tiny multicolored beads of wax. It works well enough, but I did notice after the wax beads burst, the thin beads themselvevs don't disolve and will bond to the paint as I'm washing. It requires me to jet stream the entire car just to make sure the beads are off. I'm going to be picking up some new wash soon, so thank you for the link.