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Old Mar 27, 2007 | 03:58 AM
  #1  
EmergencyDpt's Avatar
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New car with plastic on

I'm picking up my CLS on Wednesday.

After seeing the swirled up black cars on the lot, I've asked the dealership to simply leave the plastic on the car.

Any tips/tricks on the first detail?

My plan is to take off the plastic, wash with dawn and apply a coat of liquid glass.

Thanks,
EmergencyDpt
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Old Mar 27, 2007 | 06:29 AM
  #2  
TOGWT's Avatar
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach FL/ Hampstead, London, England
'84 380 SL/ '02 XK8
New vehicle, Initial Care:
Most people believe that a new car needs little if any care for the first week or so, not true. Most new vehicles leave the factory, they sit in dirt parking lots, they are transported by trains, trucks, or ships, and then they are generally subjected to the removal of transit plastic protection wrap and usually harsh washing conditions once they arrive at the car dealership.

Most vehicles are shipped at some point via rail car which is notorious for getting oxidized contaminants onto the paint surface. Even new cars that have been setting on a car dealerships lot for a few weeks can accumulate surface contamination; don't assume a vehicle that looks good is contamination free Acid rain, road salt; tree sap and airborne contaminants are very detrimental to a vehicles paint film surface. Brake dust or rail dust are very small, almost microscopic particles of steel, iron or their alloys.

These particles carry a negative charge while the vehicles they land on are carrying a positive charge. The vehicle surface becomes a magnet, attracting and bonding the ferrous metal particles to the vehicle surface, once you add water (dew, rain, humidity, etc) any of the microscopic particles of steel, iron that have compromised the paint surface will cause rust contamination

If dealer prep has induced surface scratches / marring- use Zaino Paint Cleaner – http://www.zainostore.com/ to remove and then apply a polymer sealant and / or wax for paint surface protection

Steps-
1. Wash with a good car wash, not dish soap.
2. Use two buckets when you wash (preferably one with a grit guard) one for the soapy water and one with clean water to rinse your wool wash mitt.
3. Use detailer’s clay and the proper lubricant
4. Only use good quality towels (waffle weave Microfiber or otherwise) to dry the car. Some prefer the use of a leaf blower.
5. Rewash to ensure any clay "residue" is removed.
6. Dealer prep surface scratches / marring- use Zaino Paint Cleaner – http://www.zainostore.com/ to remove and then apply a polymer sealant and / or wax for paint surface protection
7. If the paint has defects (swirls, spider webbing, etc.), then you'll need to use a polish with a random orbital buffer or a high speed rotary, with the appropriate types of foam pads
8. Apply a sealant and / or Carnauba wax to protect the paint film surface.

1. RapGard (Plastic Transit Film):
Many manufacturers are using this white plastic covering in place of synthetic or wax based shipping coatings. Plastic becomes brittle with age (90 to 180 days) and becomes difficult to remove as it "shreds" while being pulled off, additionally there maybe excess adhesive residue left on the surface.

Spray Valugard’s New Car Prep onto the Rapgard, allow to dwell for three or four minutes. Remove NCP residue with a 100% cotton towel (DFTowel) The Rapguard should now gently peel off, pull away from body at a 45 degree angle using an even pressure, you may find that it shreds. The ideal paint surface temperature for RapGuard removal is between 600F (150C) to 800F (260C) If the surface temperature is below 600F (150C) removal is best done inside. Spray the uncovered paint surface with New Car Prep to remove any adhesive residue htpp://www.autoint.com

Wash vehicle with a car wash concentrate diluted 1 oz. per gallon of water any remove any ‘solid’ adhesive residue with detailers clay. The product they use is either Cosmoline (used by Porsche amongst others) or a blend of paraffin and a synthetic wax, but it’s mainly paraffin that is used to protect new cars during shipment. They are sprayed on most engine and exterior finishes to provide a barrier to the elements. (Zymöl Strik™ Cosmoline Remover and Engine Cleaner) will remove it-
Product specific - Zymol http://fp.zymol.com/strik2.htm) or AutoBody Prep (http://www.autoint.com)

Most important; protect the finish with a polymer sealant and / or a Carnauba wax
(See also new Polymer Sealant, Polymer Sealant or Waxing New Paint)

2. Cleaning Wheel Surface:
Clean, properly conditioned wheels, tyres and fender wells greatly enhance the overall appearance of your vehicle. Today's wheels come in a variety of materials and finishes. Clean one wheel at a time, wash wheels and wheel-wells before the rest of the vehicle to avoid dirt and etc. coming into contact to newly washed surfaces. Apply a polymer to the wheel surfaces (Klasse All-In-One)

3. Cleaning Tyres:
•Rinse thoroughly with a fairly strong stream of clean water to remove any loose road dirt etc., from tyre’s and wheel wells.
•Clean tyres with a rubber cleaner (3M Tire & Wheel Cleaner -39036) or a citrus-based APC (P21S Total Auto Wash)
•Use a water-based polymer tyre dressing (Zaino Z-16 Perfect Tire Gloss™)
•Apply a (UVR) protection to the tyres.

4. Detailers Clay:
Even new cars that have been setting on a car dealerships lot for a few weeks can accumulate surface contamination; don't assume a vehicle that looks good is contamination free
•Divide the Detailer's Clay into equal pieces and knead into a ball to ensure pliability
•Take one of the pieces and flatten it out into a circle, approximately enough that it will fit into two or three fingers
•Spray a 2-foot by 2-foot surface with a 5:1 lubricating solution (Distilled water / WooliteTM or Dreft™ ensure that the surface being clayed is always wet
•Glide the Clay across the area in a front to back in a straight-line aquaplaning type motion
•Use long strokes without lifting the clay from the surface
•Use a light to medium even pressure until the surface becomes smooth and silent.
•If the Clay is streaking on the paint, you need more to apply more lubricating solution, it is better to over lubricate the paint film surface than let it dry-out

5. Vinyl and hard plastic surfaces:
•Apply any dressings very sparingly as these surfaces don’t allow the dressings to penetrate very well
•Use a suitable matte type dressing (Iz Cockpit Premium) to ensure that there is no reflection on the windshield, reducing visibility.
•Apply a UVR protection (303 Space Protectant) especially to the dash and any other surface that is subjected to sunlight on a regular basis.

6. Surface Protection:
Regularly applied wax and/or a polymer sealant will both protect the paint surface from surface contamination that collects on a painted finish which includes, Industrial fallout (IFO), Rail Dust, Acid Rain, Hard Water Spots, Tar, Bird Droppings, Waxes/Silicones, Oxidation, Adhesive Residue, Road Grime Rust Stains. I would seriously consider the purchase of a clear automotive protective coating (aka Clear Bra)

Use Optimum Poli-Seal and white lake county (LC) polishing pad, this one-step product is perfect for the neophyte or experienced detailer, it will make a noticeable improvement on even brand new paint as it will deepen the shine and jetting (wet-look gloss) durability approx. 3-4 months, maintain the shine with Optimum Spray Wax- http://superiorcarcare.net/oppo.html

7. Car Cover:
The greatest treats to the preservation of your vehicle are; Airborne Contaminants, Industrial Fallout (this includes Acid Rain) Ultra Violet Radiation (UVR) Oxidation, Bird Excrement and Brake Dust, wind blown debris and pollution. Protect your investment with a car cover, outdoors, car covers offer unequalled protection against ultra-violet radiation (UVR) they are water resistant and provide protection from acid rain, pollution, bird excrement, tree sap and wind blown debris.
Reply
Old Mar 27, 2007 | 04:31 PM
  #3  
Nickc0844's Avatar
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From: Canton (North Metro Atlanta), Georgia
2003 E500
Clay is essential to a new car. While Liquid Glass is ok, there are better products out there. You could get away with an all-in-one type of product (Klasse AIO, Menzerna Acrylic Sheild, Poorboy's PWC/PWS, TOL's Paint Perfection Glaze, etc..).
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Old Mar 27, 2007 | 05:42 PM
  #4  
tex07's Avatar
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 149
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2000 C230 sport
Originally Posted by TOGWT
New vehicle, Initial Care:
Most people believe that a new car needs little if any care for the first week or so, not true. Most new vehicles leave the factory, they sit in dirt parking lots, they are transported by trains, trucks, or ships, and then they are generally subjected to the removal of transit plastic protection wrap and usually harsh washing conditions once they arrive at the car dealership.

Most vehicles are shipped at some point via rail car which is notorious for getting oxidized contaminants onto the paint surface. Even new cars that have been setting on a car dealerships lot for a few weeks can accumulate surface contamination; don't assume a vehicle that looks good is contamination free Acid rain, road salt; tree sap and airborne contaminants are very detrimental to a vehicles paint film surface. Brake dust or rail dust are very small, almost microscopic particles of steel, iron or their alloys.

These particles carry a negative charge while the vehicles they land on are carrying a positive charge. The vehicle surface becomes a magnet, attracting and bonding the ferrous metal particles to the vehicle surface, once you add water (dew, rain, humidity, etc) any of the microscopic particles of steel, iron that have compromised the paint surface will cause rust contamination

If dealer prep has induced surface scratches / marring- use Zaino Paint Cleaner – http://www.zainostore.com/ to remove and then apply a polymer sealant and / or wax for paint surface protection

Steps-
1. Wash with a good car wash, not dish soap.
2. Use two buckets when you wash (preferably one with a grit guard) one for the soapy water and one with clean water to rinse your wool wash mitt.
3. Use detailer’s clay and the proper lubricant
4. Only use good quality towels (waffle weave Microfiber or otherwise) to dry the car. Some prefer the use of a leaf blower.
5. Rewash to ensure any clay "residue" is removed.
6. Dealer prep surface scratches / marring- use Zaino Paint Cleaner – http://www.zainostore.com/ to remove and then apply a polymer sealant and / or wax for paint surface protection
7. If the paint has defects (swirls, spider webbing, etc.), then you'll need to use a polish with a random orbital buffer or a high speed rotary, with the appropriate types of foam pads
8. Apply a sealant and / or Carnauba wax to protect the paint film surface.

1. RapGard (Plastic Transit Film):
Many manufacturers are using this white plastic covering in place of synthetic or wax based shipping coatings. Plastic becomes brittle with age (90 to 180 days) and becomes difficult to remove as it "shreds" while being pulled off, additionally there maybe excess adhesive residue left on the surface.

Spray Valugard’s New Car Prep onto the Rapgard, allow to dwell for three or four minutes. Remove NCP residue with a 100% cotton towel (DFTowel) The Rapguard should now gently peel off, pull away from body at a 45 degree angle using an even pressure, you may find that it shreds. The ideal paint surface temperature for RapGuard removal is between 600F (150C) to 800F (260C) If the surface temperature is below 600F (150C) removal is best done inside. Spray the uncovered paint surface with New Car Prep to remove any adhesive residue htpp://www.autoint.com

Wash vehicle with a car wash concentrate diluted 1 oz. per gallon of water any remove any ‘solid’ adhesive residue with detailers clay. The product they use is either Cosmoline (used by Porsche amongst others) or a blend of paraffin and a synthetic wax, but it’s mainly paraffin that is used to protect new cars during shipment. They are sprayed on most engine and exterior finishes to provide a barrier to the elements. (Zymöl Strik™ Cosmoline Remover and Engine Cleaner) will remove it-
Product specific - Zymol http://fp.zymol.com/strik2.htm) or AutoBody Prep (http://www.autoint.com)

Most important; protect the finish with a polymer sealant and / or a Carnauba wax
(See also new Polymer Sealant, Polymer Sealant or Waxing New Paint)

2. Cleaning Wheel Surface:
Clean, properly conditioned wheels, tyres and fender wells greatly enhance the overall appearance of your vehicle. Today's wheels come in a variety of materials and finishes. Clean one wheel at a time, wash wheels and wheel-wells before the rest of the vehicle to avoid dirt and etc. coming into contact to newly washed surfaces. Apply a polymer to the wheel surfaces (Klasse All-In-One)

3. Cleaning Tyres:
•Rinse thoroughly with a fairly strong stream of clean water to remove any loose road dirt etc., from tyre’s and wheel wells.
•Clean tyres with a rubber cleaner (3M Tire & Wheel Cleaner -39036) or a citrus-based APC (P21S Total Auto Wash)
•Use a water-based polymer tyre dressing (Zaino Z-16 Perfect Tire Gloss™)
•Apply a (UVR) protection to the tyres.

4. Detailers Clay:
Even new cars that have been setting on a car dealerships lot for a few weeks can accumulate surface contamination; don't assume a vehicle that looks good is contamination free
•Divide the Detailer's Clay into equal pieces and knead into a ball to ensure pliability
•Take one of the pieces and flatten it out into a circle, approximately enough that it will fit into two or three fingers
•Spray a 2-foot by 2-foot surface with a 5:1 lubricating solution (Distilled water / WooliteTM or Dreft™ ensure that the surface being clayed is always wet
•Glide the Clay across the area in a front to back in a straight-line aquaplaning type motion
•Use long strokes without lifting the clay from the surface
•Use a light to medium even pressure until the surface becomes smooth and silent.
•If the Clay is streaking on the paint, you need more to apply more lubricating solution, it is better to over lubricate the paint film surface than let it dry-out

5. Vinyl and hard plastic surfaces:
•Apply any dressings very sparingly as these surfaces don’t allow the dressings to penetrate very well
•Use a suitable matte type dressing (Iz Cockpit Premium) to ensure that there is no reflection on the windshield, reducing visibility.
•Apply a UVR protection (303 Space Protectant) especially to the dash and any other surface that is subjected to sunlight on a regular basis.

6. Surface Protection:
Regularly applied wax and/or a polymer sealant will both protect the paint surface from surface contamination that collects on a painted finish which includes, Industrial fallout (IFO), Rail Dust, Acid Rain, Hard Water Spots, Tar, Bird Droppings, Waxes/Silicones, Oxidation, Adhesive Residue, Road Grime Rust Stains. I would seriously consider the purchase of a clear automotive protective coating (aka Clear Bra)

Use Optimum Poli-Seal and white lake county (LC) polishing pad, this one-step product is perfect for the neophyte or experienced detailer, it will make a noticeable improvement on even brand new paint as it will deepen the shine and jetting (wet-look gloss) durability approx. 3-4 months, maintain the shine with Optimum Spray Wax- http://superiorcarcare.net/oppo.html

7. Car Cover:
The greatest treats to the preservation of your vehicle are; Airborne Contaminants, Industrial Fallout (this includes Acid Rain) Ultra Violet Radiation (UVR) Oxidation, Bird Excrement and Brake Dust, wind blown debris and pollution. Protect your investment with a car cover, outdoors, car covers offer unequalled protection against ultra-violet radiation (UVR) they are water resistant and provide protection from acid rain, pollution, bird excrement, tree sap and wind blown debris.
Zaino seems like a fake "NEW ORANGE CLEAN!" type of thing that really doesnt work and may actually hurt the car.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2007 | 06:53 AM
  #5  
TOGWT's Avatar
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach FL/ Hampstead, London, England
'84 380 SL/ '02 XK8
Originally Posted by tex07
Zaino seems like a fake "NEW ORANGE CLEAN!" type of thing that really doesnt work and may actually hurt the car.
If you have facts to back up your statement "Zaino seems like a fake "NEW ORANGE CLEAN!" I for one would be grateful if you would share that knowledge, otherwise your statement has absolutely no validity and could be a subject for a liable lawsuit

Last edited by TOGWT; Mar 29, 2007 at 04:27 AM.
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Old Mar 28, 2007 | 08:31 PM
  #6  
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Thank you all for your help.
I think I'll go to pep boys and ask for one of everything!
LOL.
I'll post some pics when I get her home.
I'm a little scared of rubbing clay on the surface. I'll assess the paint before this step and skip it if it doesn't need it.
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Old Apr 1, 2007 | 02:35 AM
  #7  
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Well I picked up the car today.

I asked the dealership to simply remove the plastic but do not wash the car. I asked them to do whatever prep they do to the interior only.

The plastic came right off but left a residue. The detailer was gracious enough to give me a bottle of meguires body solvent to remove it.

After washing the car with soap and water I used the mr clean car wash thingy that basically has a deionizing filter in it to rinse the car off.

I've had minimal spotting with this gaget in the past but of course I gently toweled off the car.

I used the body solvent sparingly on a rag and it took off the plastic adhesive very easily and without even taking off the wax that was on the car.

I skipped the clay thing. Rubbing dirt on a clean car just seems wrong. Sorry.

The paint was perfectly smooth so I put a coat of mcguires nxt wax on it and buffed it out with a mf cloth.

It's quite late here right now so I'll defer taking pics until I've slept. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks everyone for your posts.
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Old Apr 1, 2007 | 02:39 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by TOGWT
If you have facts to back up your statement "Zaino seems like a fake "NEW ORANGE CLEAN!" I for one would be grateful if you would share that knowledge, otherwise your statement has absolutely no validity and could be a subject for a liable lawsuit
Pardon my asking, but do you work for zanio?
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 01:39 AM
  #9  
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PS. I have to say I'm not a fan of car covers. They retain dirt and grit and rub it into the finish as the wind blows. Better off with a good coat or three of wax.
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Old Apr 4, 2007 | 07:51 AM
  #10  
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach FL/ Hampstead, London, England
'84 380 SL/ '02 XK8
Originally Posted by EmergencyDpt
Pardon my asking, but do you work for zanio [sic]?
I work as a Project Engineering Manager in the Petro Chemical (Oil/Gas exploration) industry and part-time write detailing articles, car care product application instructions and books on automotive detailing, as well as prepare / detail Concours d’élégance entrants vehicles.

I have no affiliation, professional or otherwise with any of the listed companies, or their products. I use and recommend them as they do what the manufacturer says they will. There are many other products in the marketplace that may be equally suited to the tasks listed, however I have used the products listed and found them satisfactory for my use.

Last edited by TOGWT; Apr 4, 2007 at 07:56 AM.
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Old Apr 6, 2007 | 12:01 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by TOGWT
If you have facts to back up your statement "Zaino seems like a fake "NEW ORANGE CLEAN!" I for one would be grateful if you would share that knowledge, otherwise your statement has absolutely no validity and could be a subject for a liable lawsuit
I was just wondering why you would say that since speech in a public forum is protected speech. That bill of rights thing... W hasn't gotten to that amendment yet.
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Old Apr 6, 2007 | 07:26 AM
  #12  
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach FL/ Hampstead, London, England
'84 380 SL/ '02 XK8
Originally Posted by EmergencyDpt
I was just wondering why you would say that since speech in a public forum is protected speech. That bill of rights thing... W hasn't gotten to that amendment yet.
I don't think you are protected from slander, defamation of character or liable just because you make the statement in a public forum. I'm not a solicitor but it doesn't seem reasonable to me free speech or not

See https://mbworld.org/forums/terms.php

Last edited by TOGWT; Apr 6, 2007 at 07:29 AM.
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Old Apr 7, 2007 | 09:53 PM
  #13  
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2000 C230 sport
Originally Posted by TOGWT
I don't think you are protected from slander, defamation of character or liable just because you make the statement in a public forum. I'm not a solicitor but it doesn't seem reasonable to me free speech or not

See https://mbworld.org/forums/terms.php
Actually, stating opinions is perfectly fine...I don't work for a competitor and I am not providing false facts that others my rely on. You are way out of line threatening fellow board members as you did and should refrain from doing that in the future. However, you may certainly ask me to give facts as to why I believe what I do if you wish, and add "pwned" to your comments if I have nothing to say.

Another thing: threatening random people online with lawsuits is probably a bad idea. You may eventually threaten an attorney who actually knows the corresponding civil codes. For the purpose of clearing some things up, suing a fellow board member for making a statement as I did would probably end up in a countersuit (and win) for falsely and maliciously suing that board member. It is not a situation you probably would want to deal with.

So I repeat again, I think that Zaino's website makes their product look like its fake...and I certainly would be wary about buying that product. Unless someone can show an unsurmountable amount of evidence to the contrary, I think I will continue using other products that have been tried and true to my cars.
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Old Apr 7, 2007 | 09:54 PM
  #14  
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2000 C230 sport
Originally Posted by TOGWT
I don't think you are protected from slander, defamation of character or liable just because you make the statement in a public forum. I'm not a solicitor but it doesn't seem reasonable to me free speech or not

See https://mbworld.org/forums/terms.php
Considering that no one's character has been defamed and that slander deals with actual verbal conversation, you would be left with suing on the claim that liable has been committed by the accused. By the way, it is spelled libel.
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Old Apr 7, 2007 | 10:00 PM
  #15  
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2000 C230 sport
Originally Posted by EmergencyDpt
PS. I have to say I'm not a fan of car covers. They retain dirt and grit and rub it into the finish as the wind blows. Better off with a good coat or three of wax.
I love car covers haha...you need to find one that fits well, and if the wind is blowing very hard, you really need to buy buckle straps. That solves your problem completely.

Actually you really just need to find a way to park it inside!
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Old Apr 9, 2007 | 12:18 PM
  #16  
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John Deere
Guys, Zaino has been around for years and years, and many people swear by it.
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Old Apr 9, 2007 | 02:03 PM
  #17  
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2000 C230 sport
Originally Posted by RBrenton
Guys, Zaino has been around for years and years, and many people swear by it.
well then, maybe i'll have to try it out! as long as you dont threaten to sue if i don't like it haha
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Old Apr 9, 2007 | 02:08 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by tex07
Zaino seems like a fake "NEW ORANGE CLEAN!" type of thing that really doesnt work and may actually hurt the car.
....
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Old Apr 9, 2007 | 03:03 PM
  #19  
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One thing is for certain: Zanio users are loyal to a fault.

No one is going to be suing anyone on my thread.

I pardon all.

Zanio shmanio.
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Old Apr 9, 2007 | 03:06 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by tex07
I love car covers haha...you need to find one that fits well, and if the wind is blowing very hard, you really need to buy buckle straps. That solves your problem completely.

Actually you really just need to find a way to park it inside!
I agree, park inside.

I'm not sure that strapping the car cover tighter is the answer if grit gets between the cover and the paint...

On any color but black a cover would probably be fine. You don't see the clear coat. My car is black, however so a cover would not work. In any case, I have a garage.
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Old Apr 11, 2007 | 03:25 PM
  #21  
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2000 C230 sport
true that, we're all friends here!
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Old Apr 12, 2007 | 05:28 AM
  #22  
TOGWT's Avatar
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From: Ponte Vedra Beach FL/ Hampstead, London, England
'84 380 SL/ '02 XK8
Originally Posted by tex07
I love car covers haha...you need to find one that fits well, and if the wind is blowing very hard, you really need to buy buckle straps. That solves your problem completely.

Actually you really just need to find a way to park it inside!
Strong Winds or Desert Dust Storms:
Gales or strong winds and desert dust storms can buffer the car cover causing surface marring, wind blown sand, dirt or grit if it gets between the paint surface and a wind buffered cover will cause surface scratches. To avoid this use a Dust Stop™ as a secondary cover, this tight fitting cotton fleece lined material will protect the surface, then use a Weathersheild™ as the primary cover for weather protection. Both of these covers are made of a breathable material so moisture or condensation will not be trapped between the covers and the surface

Two-cover system:
During high winds or prolonged storage the use of this system will avoid paint surface marring from the cover being buffered by high force winds (Hurricanes)

1. Dustop TM Four layer cover with maximum dust protection and its soft inner layer protects paint from marring

2. WeathersheildTM - single layer construction, primarily for intense sun environments and long-term storage provides optimum protection from water, dust, tree sap, while providing long-term UVR protection and maximum weatherproof protection from a multi-layer breathable fabric.
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Old Apr 12, 2007 | 02:15 PM
  #23  
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2000 C230 sport
Originally Posted by TOGWT
Strong Winds or Desert Dust Storms:
Gales or strong winds and desert dust storms can buffer the car cover causing surface marring, wind blown sand, dirt or grit if it gets between the paint surface and a wind buffered cover will cause surface scratches. To avoid this use a Dust Stop™ as a secondary cover, this tight fitting cotton fleece lined material will protect the surface, then use a Weathersheild™ as the primary cover for weather protection. Both of these covers are made of a breathable material so moisture or condensation will not be trapped between the covers and the surface

Two-cover system:
During high winds or prolonged storage the use of this system will avoid paint surface marring from the cover being buffered by high force winds (Hurricanes)

1. Dustop TM Four layer cover with maximum dust protection and its soft inner layer protects paint from marring

2. WeathersheildTM - single layer construction, primarily for intense sun environments and long-term storage provides optimum protection from water, dust, tree sap, while providing long-term UVR protection and maximum weatherproof protection from a multi-layer breathable fabric.
whoa, thanks!
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Old Apr 12, 2007 | 09:31 PM
  #24  
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Did he ever meet a product he didn't like?
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Old Apr 12, 2007 | 09:44 PM
  #25  
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Mercedes-Benz
i have thousands of dollars of products that sit on a shelf now because of zaino... it is that good. I have been detailing for 8 years.
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