240D 3.0T

I now have the Water/Methanol Injection kit installed.

I've got it set to kick on at 13.5psi (14psi running boost pressure) and it turns off at 12psi. There IS a noticeable "seat of the pants" boost when the pump turns on. I've got the seatbelt light setup as the "on" light when the boost switch opens the solenoid. After filling up with some $0.93 Wal-Mart windshield washer mix (Winter blend, summer blend has no methanol in it) there was an even better response. I'd even bet money I've broken the 100whp mark, but I'll wait for proof after next months dyno run. No EGT readings to report since I have not received the pyrometer yet. No 0-60 time yet since it's still too windy today for any good results.

But, the down side is it chugs the water/methanol mix. It used a little over 1 gallon after about 3 minutes of my test run. Also, 2 seconds into operation the boost will fluctuate between 13.5-14.0 for a second then stabilize at just shy of 14psi. Intercooler effect making the air more dense?

Top-front view of my engine today. Not seen is the boost switch on the firewall.


Tap in the lower right of the 2 gallon tank.


A picture shortly before I wired in the switch and tied all the wires down.


The nozzle threaded into the '79 SD manifold's stock port without changing the threads.


A view from inside the intake. (Note how clean it is without an EGR or CCV fumes to muck it up.)

240D 3.0T

Video 1.1MB Needs WMP 10+ for windows or VLC media player on Macs.

I just finished installing my ISSPRO pyrometer and a few test runs. As you can see from the video, I was surprised to see it get that hot. The video cuts off a little short, but it got to 1400*f by 4500rpm. It seems the water injection does NOTHING to lower EGT's. There was no difference between runs with/without it.Sitll, it does give the engine a little more "kick".

Next mod in line for installation, air-water intercooler.

The boost gauge on the right is for exhaust manifold pressure. There must be a leak near the gauge because it pulses/vibrates while under load.

jimbo1mcm

Post pix when you put the new engine in.

husk323

lol

CE750

Pretty cool... Propane injection is the way to really get the HP up. have you though of trying that?

240D 3.0T

I do want to try it. I'm just running out of trunk space!

18 gallon auxiliary fuel tank, 2 10" subwoofers/amp/box, extra 2 gallons of injection mix, emergency gallon of fuel, spare tire, tire tools, and a small 12x5" toolbox.

Unless I can find the right tank to hang where the stock rear muffler was, I won't have any space left for it.

Propane does not quite have the kick in IDI engines as it does with DI, so it's tward the lower end of my list.

CE750

You've got a future as an automotive engineer... good work, but don't try this on a $60K CDI!

240D 3.0T

Here are the dyno results.

Runs-
1: No WI- 99.5HP/149.3TQ
2: Pure water- 99.9/149.3
3: 60% water, 40% methanol- 102.7/148.2

The red arrow is the point where the WI was triggered by boost pressure.

HERE is a video of the 3rd run. (Right click, Save as) WMP9 or VLC media player needed to view.

boardboy330

Reviving this old thread, as I am doing this on a CDI.

Micah / AF1 Rac

We are on close to the same schedule, which system are you going with? I've only used it on boosted and NA motorcycle engines and learned about it from vintage airplanes, it works, the OP was squirting a little heavy to drain that much that quick. At 200 bhp we saw max benefit from three number one nozzles on a supercharged twin cylinder Aprilia.

AEM is sitting in my shopping cart but I have an airplane addiction to take care of too, oh drugs would have been so much cheaper...

boardboy330

Yeah, I saw you wanted to add it as well. I think we should start a new thread specifically about it. I revived this simply because it was the only Meth/Water Inj thread for these and someone said not to do it

I was looking at Snow Performance. AEM doesn't have the best track record with quality in my experience. I might just go custom. I know where I will install it, I am looking for a fluid tank that will fit in the bumper somewhere (for easy refill).

Removing the cats like you did, getting a 4Bar MAP, the 2010 Bluetec turbo, and a bigger intercooler. The Water Inj will be the help it needs to get me to 350 hp. Then I need to find injectors from a E420 CDI or E30 CDI. A few things are needed before I can get a custom tune put on. I am going Rocket Chip, since he is close.

Micah / AF1 Rac

Nice, custom is really the best way to go if you have the time. Most of the kits I've seen or used are built around the same pump and a some including the early Snow version I have use a very primitive controller. A diesel obviously runs much higher average boost over time with no air throttling so it naturally uses more liquid than a similar power gas motor. I'm thinking that a number two nozzle in the post charge cooler up pipe as far before the IAT probe as possible is best location for me. It's also an easy pipe to remove and weld an angled bung onto. There seems to be very little advantage to spraying pre intercooler as much of the heat removed is from metal and that is potentially heat removed from air.

I suppose in a perfect world for our motors we would switch flow of fluid based on IAT and MAP. It was 105F ambient on my drive home last night, there is a quarter mile hill at a 27% grade heading up the ridge to my home! my cdi started defueling based on IAT about 2/3rds the way up...annoying but with fluid injection quite fixable.

I'll be back on the dyno today with a KTM RC8R, hopefully for the last pass I can get a nice graph of water/methanol in 110F ambient temps compared to a non cooled run. It's not a huge difference but in Texas heat it is most definitely a measurable difference even on a high compression motorcycle engine with no boost.

boardboy330

Your best bet is installing right where you said you should. Before turbo is just bad game. Before intercooler is pointless as well and could cause long term issues. I thought about right where the intake flaps were and using smaller nozzles, but it wouldn't give it enough time to atomize properly or cool the charge. Before IAT is the best solution.

I would like to see the numbers posted once your dyno run is done. I need a dyno on stock intercooler vs aftermarket. I think that alone will change the numbers for us.

Micah / AF1 Rac

Pre turbo works brilliant on pure racing drag motors and such on motorcycles, when you are boosting for perhaps 60-120 seconds total under anti-Det fluid injection for a weekend or land speed meet, compressor erosion is a minor issue, though it's easily seen with a decent set of lenses. Street motors I feel should shoot for a minimum consumption, maximum effect spray strategy, fine nozzle(s) and high pump pressure, downstream of the charge cooler. Bell Intercoolers is based only one airport over from me and I have a good rapor with Corky so I've been thinking a lot about a bigger cooler, especially in my hellish climate, 106 in the shade today, as high as 109 on the road...hellish.

Post intercooler and pre IAT is the only location on my inline six that makes solid sense. If I only picked up 10-15 bhp I would be quite surprised as I expect on a high ambient temp day the gains are greater. The thing about water/methanol that always makes me smile is that while efficiency of charge cooling goes down slightly it cooler weather, it is still very good. I just buy neat methanol from VP and cut with distiller water between customers leaving me Devil's Own or equivalent. I would never really consider pre kompressor spray strategy on anything that didn't really need it. I need my car, it's 44 miles daily commuting and my primary pleasure car really. I'm as interested in economy gains in terms of fuel consumption total as often in highway driving with no egr boost levels can get up there, higher with speed cruise is set at.

This has been a really fun car, way better than I expected it to be. If you had told me 20 years ago I'd be proudly driving and modding a MB diesel while listening to NPR and worrying about hangar space and whatnot...I never would have believed it. I care about my fuel mileage? Wtf? Who have I become. The best part is that every successful mod has made a more powerful if slightly less civilized car, while getting ever better mpgs...I'm getting old.

boardboy330

I am on the flipside. I love having a modded MB that can hang with most of the vehicles that enjoy a race on the highway. Mileage is nice, but beating a convertible Cobra was awesome.

I would go with Bell, but the cost is prohibitive. I went with a Mishimoto. Gold race series. In the future I will paint the calipers to match.

Micah / AF1 Rac

Pics or link? I've had the bum per off plenty of times, if price, fitments and gains are worth it I would definitely consider an IC upgrade. I'm all for lower IAT's.

boardboy330

http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-m...-all-gold.html

Requires modifying the support for fitment. I wanted something that would handle the 30PSI the motor needs.

EDIT: I see someone is running 45PSI on this stock motor with a tune. This IC wouldn't be enough.

Micah / AF1 Rac

That looks good. I'm pretty much fuel limited at 30 psi (2Bar) right now due to concerns about tranny. I don't mind modifying the car a bit to fit the cooler. Price seems very reasonable too. I feel I'm pretty close to tranny torque max until say 3300-3500rpm, above which more boost and fuel can be added but I need bigger injectors to do so properly, I'm not raising rail pressure to to 3k Bar, just too many downsides. Water meth is brilliant, it has been since WWII in airplanes. On my App dynos I'm showing to be right around 250 bhp, I need to settle on one and log everything from there from this point out. I think with the right injectors and charge cooling 275-300 bhp should be safe in terms of tranny torque limits as long as peak power occurs in the 4k rpm range. I seldom use full power, but when I do I like to feel it. Did a top speed run recently, well up to 4k rpm in 6th....it went way quicker than expected.

My NSX is sold as of Monday, my 190D here soon, a couple of jet engines and a giant Cat genset coming up along with my V12 BMW...then pay off Beechcraft, sell Cessna and I'm looking real good for another round of mods on the Jeep CRD and e320 CDI.

ONE THING ANOUT THE SMARTER WATER/methanol systems is ability to ramp flow rates according to boost or whatever 10-5v signal you like...just a trickle at say 10psi and full spray above say 20psi. You are going love watching the real time temp sensor or thermocouple readings, entertaining to say the least.

OM617.95

Updated info: http://mercedesforum.com/forum/diese...76/#post153942