Carsy

+1

zoink

Sorry guys... been away for a while.

I'll try to answer as many questions as possible:

Sluggish definition: When you WOT, the RPM and speed go up very slowly. It didn't kick down. Even when I used tiptronic to shift down, the RPM went up but still no power.

How do I know it was DPF?
I'm not as techie, much less with diesel. I was told by my SA that the DPF was very dirty and the true cause of this. I got confirmation that $3900 was NOT the price for the entire exhaust system, just the DPF incl. labor. Cleaning was not an option given the condition

Diesel: I always fill my car with Diesel #2 ULSD from Shell (25% of the time) or 76 (75% of the time). Not sure whether Diesel #2 is the same as Power Diesel Don't know about the previous owner... I assume he should be (more) knowledgeable given he owns an authorized MB dealer in Louisiana.

CEL/MIL: No lights/message whatsoever.

Low ash oil: I always service my car at the same stealership. If they put the wrong oil, they should know (I'll check my past work orders). Now this gets me thinking....

I think about 3000-4000 miles ago (so approx. 5000-6000 miles after last service), I got a message "Check oil level in the next fill up". Stealership found it needed 1 qt. I asked my SA whether it was normal... the answer was yes
And then I got the same MIL about 2000 miles ago. Brought it to stealership again and got another 1qt. filled. I told my SA that I did not see any leak in my garage.

So for those (b200turbo? ) who think this could be the issue, please give me some info so I could understand better why you think this could be the issue.

MBUSA:MBUSA rejected to give me any compensation.
Even when I asked whether certification checks/replaces DPF, MBUSA refused to answer --- shouldn't there be a standard checklist so the answer is a clear yes/no?

Stealership:Stealership was also unwilling to provide any help/support. I even asked the same thing about the standard certification procedure (whether or not DPF was checked and replaced if needed) and they told me to ask the dealer who did certification.

What's up with this? Is certification simply a sticker joke?

Anyway, here's my plan now:
- I found similar suggestion as b200 - driving it on highway, keep pushing the car (having backpressure "high") and this will trigger the cleaning (regeneration) process in which the exhaust temp will be higher and ECU will make some adjustment to burn off the soots. The regeneration will stop/pause once the system sees no more backpressures.
- So I pushed my car whenever I can since then... so far the problem has not re-occured (crossing my fingers).
- I also plan to bring it to another stealership and see whether they also make the same conclusions (DPF).

zoink

If my wife's driving habit is the cause - she's very easy and always gets 21mpg in CITY driving , then I hope what I've been doing would solve it... push the car, more highway driving, etc.

Per info I found in the internet (will try to find the link), it's not a matter of city/highway driving... but it's a matter of "pushing" the car to get the exhaust temp up and ECU adjusts the mixture. Certainly, as far as I know, it is easier to "push" the car on the highway than in city driving. This could be the reason why some suggest highway driving would trigger the cleaning/regeneration procedure.

Mass air sensor should trigger CEL as far as I know - just like my old W210 E55.

ImInPA

I doubt it is your wife's driving habbits. While a totally failed MAF will trigger an CEL, the get gunked up over time. Your DPF should require no maintenance. I strongly suspect your issue is somewhere else. Get a second opinion.

zemun1234

Exactly same problem - from top to bottom of stick is ~ 2 lit and I burned after 3000 km.
The first approach from MB would be 'it's normal for diesel' but I didn't accept that and we setup oil consumption monitoring. After monitor for 1,000 km, MB measured and confirmed problem (they kept car for 2 days).
The problem was 'turbo intake seal' - it's difficult to detect due to oil is burning and you cannot see it below car. After that repair (inside warranty but it's just seal/rubber and it shouldn't be problem for DYI), I got finally MB (2008 ML320 CDI) car what I bought

Also, the problem could be related if you have changed oil out of MB dealership and the person who did it, it didn't put pipe correctly.
Trust me - I spent too much time in MB fixing this problem and I am speaking from experience

Sathinas

No. Tuning a vehicle is not illegal. I don't know where you got that idea from.

It is, however, illegal by federal standards to remove/alter/bypass factory emission controls such as cats and DPF's. A muffler is technically not an emission control component, but a lot of municipalities do have laws against changing to aftermarket mufflers or removing them.

Personally, I don't think anything is "illegal" till you get busted for it. :lol: I'm speaking tongue-in-cheek, of course.

ImInPA

Mufflers are generally tied to local noise ordinance. This is especially true with motorcycles.

MBtech1098

You need to find a new dealer. A manual regeneration of the DPF can be performed with Star Diagnosis. No need to replace.

harkgar

This is a prime example of the folly of MB making "Clean" diesel engines! May I sell you some Nitrogen enriched air and Tokyo Reactor #2 Uranium enriched Vichy spring water? The minute the warranty is over it is bye bye Charlie the Tree Hugger!

If you are rich and love trees pay the damn $3,000.00. I you are like 99% of people with common sense drive a gasoline car or buy a 2006 or older diesel vehicle.

I think there are 3 or 4 filters in the 2007 and newer MB diesels. They will fail some day, one by one, just when your "Clean" diesel is worth less than these Tree Hugging Filters. Next consider the failure of the AdBlue system with 2008and newer examples. I had posted extensively about this topic years ago.

zemun1234

I agree with you -
more filters = more maintenance = more $$$

If part is mechanical, it could last but change filter and death are sure things

I agree that 2006 or older cars (inline) are much better but living in climate where 4matic is required (not nice to have) doesn't give us option.

My best car was 2005 E320 CDI but it's not built for Canada climate

mabruteam

More questions about DPF failures... we own a Sprinter 2008 with the same engine now with 229000 miles, never had issues... service records show oil changes every 10K miles, fuel filter, one oil cooler, one glow plug, and full service every 100K miles. the second sprinter also 2008 got only 27000 miles is always idling around the marina, never had any problems, we also have a 2010 22K miles, 2011 11K miles and they are just fine... but my GL320 2008 now with 105K miles is now having issues: oil cooler, oil leaks, turbo seals, cleaning intakes, DPF sensors, intake sensors, sensor, and more sensors, air suspension, steering, we spend close to 10K lately, but still going into limb mode, engine light on, will not reset after turning the key. the fault on Star is still related to the DPF, i believe that when the intake manifolds got clean all that mess end up inside the exhaust filter. in limp mode the DPF regeneration is not activated, so I will have to take it to have it remove and clean ?? one more week with out my GL. will have to drive my reliable 1995 e320 wagon..

Prussian

I am new to this forum and just read the entire threat and was wondering if anyone can confirm an connection between the DPF filter issues, the motor oil issue and the stalling/vibrating when applying soft gas on inclines with the R-Class 350 Bluetec 2010.

One thing that can clog or mess up the DPF is the choice of engine oil. But for the R-Class 350 Bluetec there is a lot of conflicting information about the type of oil that should be put into the engine. Yesterday I went to the dealer and asked what oil do you put into this vehicle when I bring it in for an oil change. They said Mercedes OEM oil 5W30 spec. MB229.52. Today I called Mercedes USA headquarter customer support. I was told that this oil was not on the approved list for this vehicle. They only show 2 approved oils. Mobil ESP Formula M 5W40 MB229.51 and Valvoline MST 5W40. The MB advisor also said there there was however a long list of spec changes for this vehicle /engine. I also learned from the owner of a high end third party Mercedes shop owned by a very hands on Russian that there were a lot of engine failures with the 0W oils there were part of previous specs. I also checked with several autoparts stores to see what specs they pull up in their systems and it was all over the place from recommending MB229.5 spec oil and also recommending 5W30 Chevron Delo 400 oil.

With this much confusion and apparently some internal change of mind on MB's part about the engine oil, I would guess that the original oil spec created problems but perhaps was chosen to meet clean air act requirements. Then it appears that Porsche, Audi and MB had engine failure issues with the 0W oil specs. Likely more in Germany at higher speeds on the Autobahn leading to the engine failures. This caused all 3 companies to switch the recommendation to the 5W oils. But I have a suspicion that this change creates problems for the DPF filter and causes quicker clogging.

But here is the next issue with all this. There is a sensor measuring the pressure differential across the DPF which is an input to the PCM (Power Train Control Module). When I read the forums in Germany where a Diesel R-Class is a very common vehicle vs. the USA where it is a rare configuration, a lot of people are complaining about this no torque / stalling / vibrating at approx. 35 to 40 km (25-30 MPH) on inclines when using the gas softly. I did not see anyone on the German forums who had a solution to the issue. People tried the following without success: transmission fluid change, complete transmission flush, partial transmission replacement, transmission control board replacement, software update to transmission control module. Everyone reports that the engine delivers sufficient torque when pushing the gas harder and it stops the problem and people have adjusted their driving styles. The problem also seems to occur when the engine is warmer.
So I am wondering if a clogged DPF which would register a higher than normal pressure differential could provide an input to the PCM that would then cause this type of power train behavior.

Does anyone have any thoughts or input? Has anyone solved this power train issue by cleaning or replacing the DPF?

samaritrey

The mobile 1 0w-30 dpf is approved to the 229.51 and .52 spec and will be fine for your om642 now if you want to use a thicker oil the 5w-30 esp is still available and is .51 approved. The 5w-40esp was discontinued and replaced with the 0w-30. The problem with asking the dealer is they are idiots most of the time and i have heard of people saying they have a diesel and being give the 0w-40 European spec gas oil so take what they say with a grain of salt. As for MBUSA no clue why they said only two are approved because that is so not true.

Any links about the engine failures as I haven't heard of that with MB but would be interested as MB just approved the 0w-30 and I am currently using it.


You can check approval online here
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...229.51_en.html
Remember to check the bottle of whatever you get as the list can be misleading as the name can be the same but a different formula here in the USA. The Mobile 1 dpf is available at Napa and other parts places but make sure to get it on sale for 5.99 as otherwise it is like 8.99.

Plutoe

"Does anyone have any thoughts or input? Has anyone solved this power train issue by cleaning or replacing the DPF?"

I an possibly others are confused, I am led to believe,but stand to be corrected, that the 251.124 and 251.157(Both R350 Bluetec) use SCR cat technology vs the CDI DPF---am I correct and what is the issue with a DPF on those engines. Please clarify!!

20swrt

Try cleaning first. DPF cleaning services is a fast growing segment in the diesel industry in the USA (see link). MBUSA dealerships will NOT recommend this at this time because their stupid european CEO's do not think it will generate enough revenue from the American market. Bottom line is - they make more money selling new DPFs to rich gullible Americans. But in Europe - it is common knowledge that DPFs are cleanable (both DIY and repair shops). It is preposterous to assume we need to spend $2-4K every 100-150K miles on a new DPF. Yes I admit it cannot be 100% cleaned - but it can certainly buy you a lot of value cleaning the DPF. Google it !


Sprinters DPFs last longer for 2 main reasons. They are driven longer distances for every cold start. Your engine creates the most soot the first 15 minutes you start your diesel. The 2nd reason - Sprinters have bigger air filters. i.e. they clog far less frequently - compared to the ML/GL/E. So what ? As the air filter gets clogged - it sucks more air/oil residue from the PCV/CCV (crankcase) - meaning oil gets into the combustion chamber and into your exhaust. More bypass oil = more oil into the DPF. Bottom line - replace air filters frequently !

Carsy

Thanks SWRT, great info.

Interested to know what the DIY method would be? I am not sure whether the" bosses" domestic cake oven would be hot enough or 100 psi air pressure sufficient?

20swrt

The video i posted requires special shop equipment. If you can find a similar service - you may have to remove your DPF and have it cleaned by them. I think thats the best method. The DIY I was referring to does not require DPF removal. Brands like LiquiMoly, Bardahl, Wurth makes chemicals that will clean your DPF with a few tools and a compressor. Go to youtube and search for "DPF cleaning". Personally, i prefer to send the DPF to the shop - i think it will yield the best results - IMO. Actually, would like to send my DPF for "service" at around 120K miles even if its still ok.

samaritrey

I found this place awhile back and plan to try them out if I ever need it done.
http://www.dpfregeneration.com/

Carsy

Thank you ,sounds good advice. JC

ckoffend

From my understanding, the DPF should typically last in the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range - assuming you are using good fuel and that the rest of your system/engine is performing properly.

The price of $3,900 is a bit high . . . but the DPF itself goes for roughly $2,100 and then you have the labor/installation. My guess is the dealer is also trying to hit you up for new sensors as well (whether needed or not).

The DPF (and DOC) can be serviced, cleaned and/or regenerated. Though I am not 100% certain if MB designates a chemical process or a heat process on my 2008 ML 320 cdi for the cleaning/regenerating process.

For the diesel truck industry, the typical interval for servicing/regenerating a DPF is about 200,000 miles - which for a truck is pretty frequent - about once per year. There are many diesel truck service centers throughout the country (obviously) and many of them will be able to service your DPF regeneration/cleaning. What I have found is that you can have this performed for roughly $300-$500 to have both the DOC and DPF serviced - but this does not include the labor of removal and reinstallation after the cleaning has been performed.

Before going to this trouble, what I have also learned is that often times it is the sensors that fail, not the DPF getting clogged. A good service facility should be able to determine if the sensors are bad (there are two I believe) that mostly measure temperatures both before and after the DPF. During an active test at a good service shop, they should be able to see that the sensors are giving different/changing readings as the test proceeds - indicating a greater likelihood the sensors are good and the DPF is clogged - partially by seeing the temps each sensor is reading.

The MB dealer where I live, Kalamazoo Michigan area is a total joke and virtually useless. I contacted them about servicing the DPF - cleaning/regenerating . . . and their comment was that they have never heard of such a thing! But then immediately suggested that I bring my car in to them to have it analyzed . . . but I'd have to wait several weeks before they could get me in . They may be the worst car dealership I have ever experienced - now I take my MB 45 minutes away to have it serviced at a much better MB dealer (when I have it serviced by MB).

FYI - this information has come to me as a result of my ML 320 cdi being exceptionally sluggish . . . feeling like it is in limp mode . . . but is not technically in limp mode. My Check Engine line has come on . . . permanently now . . . initially when the problem first started to appear, the sluggishness would only present itself occasionally and only sometimes the CE light would come on . . . the problem would disappear if the car was turned off and left alone for a few hours or over night. Initially, I figured it was either/or fuel filter or engine air filters (both had been changed 19,000 miles prior). Also a bit concerned about the turbo . . . The sluggishness is now nearly permanent . . . as I have not yet had the DPF removed for cleaning . . . that will be in the next 1-2 weeks. I was told it was safe to continue driving - albeit sluggish responsiveness and the risks related to driving safety pertaining to that portion.

ckoffend

I spoke with them today . . . they seem pretty knowledgeable. I was quoted $400 to service the combo DOC/DPF for my 2008 ML 320 CDI. They said to leave the sensors in when I send in the unit - they will remove the sensors as necessary for the regen/cleaning process. They will test the sensors . . . and if okay, they will re-install them before returning. if the sensors are bad, they will tape them to the side of the DPF when sending it back. I was told the turnaround upon receipt for them is 48 hours - customer to pay shipping in both directions - they are located in Connecticut.

I have not used them, am not associated with them, but am considering them . . . vs. a local diesel truck shop that offers a similar service for a little bit more . . . and of course no shipping = faster turn around time.

What I liked about talking to dpfregeneration.com is that they use the cleaning method specified by the OEM of the DPF - whether chemical or baking . . .

kajtek1

My Bluetec has 171k and just recently friend scanned it for performance.
I was amazed how many tests you can do with keyboard only.
So my particulate filter did show last regeneration 4xx miles back and 0 resistance.
Sure sounds good to me.
What made my jaw drop was telling me that car had injector replaced already and most amazing - cylinders compression test done by interpreting starter speed.
Maybe not as direct, but 10 seconds on the keyboard beats a day of making traditional compression test.

Plutoe

Sounds great---keep us posted on the results!!

kajtek1

Somebody hijack Plutoe's account
But that might be a good thing.

Plutoe

Did we get any news!!