Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF): When should we replace?
#51
Hi Zoink.
I just posted my DPF issue and saw yours below mine. Its strange that Mercedes CPO warranty will not cover DPF. Sounds really odd to me. You should look into this more as long as its a Mercedes CPO warranty. My understanding/learning is that DPF doesn't go bad by itself and shouldn't go bad at this mileage. Something causes for it to go bad. If you have turbos, I would recommend having a look at them. If there is oil leak from the turbos they will cause your DPF to malfunction.
Good luck!
I just posted my DPF issue and saw yours below mine. Its strange that Mercedes CPO warranty will not cover DPF. Sounds really odd to me. You should look into this more as long as its a Mercedes CPO warranty. My understanding/learning is that DPF doesn't go bad by itself and shouldn't go bad at this mileage. Something causes for it to go bad. If you have turbos, I would recommend having a look at them. If there is oil leak from the turbos they will cause your DPF to malfunction.
Good luck!
#52
Senior Member
I believe certain states have different emission warranty periods. So depending on where yours was first sold determines your emissions warranty period.
Hi Zoink.
I just posted my DPF issue and saw yours below mine. Its strange that Mercedes CPO warranty will not cover DPF. Sounds really odd to me. You should look into this more as long as its a Mercedes CPO warranty. My understanding/learning is that DPF doesn't go bad by itself and shouldn't go bad at this mileage. Something causes for it to go bad. If you have turbos, I would recommend having a look at them. If there is oil leak from the turbos they will cause your DPF to malfunction.
Good luck!
I just posted my DPF issue and saw yours below mine. Its strange that Mercedes CPO warranty will not cover DPF. Sounds really odd to me. You should look into this more as long as its a Mercedes CPO warranty. My understanding/learning is that DPF doesn't go bad by itself and shouldn't go bad at this mileage. Something causes for it to go bad. If you have turbos, I would recommend having a look at them. If there is oil leak from the turbos they will cause your DPF to malfunction.
Good luck!
#53
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GL 320, 993TT, BMW 550XI
I had regen failure codes in my GL 320. My shop was successful using Liqui Moly DPF cleaner to clear codes. No need to buy a new PDF. My shop also uses this stuff to clean clogged cats on gassers as well and swears by this. Usual not affiliated and only a satisfied customer yada yada..
Note: the vehicle will smoke like a freight train during cleaning process.
Note: the vehicle will smoke like a freight train during cleaning process.
#54
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Liqui Moly purge did not fix my DPF even I used cleaner/purge combo.
Seems some of the honeycombs in my filter collapsed.
But technology develop nicely and when DPF were black magic 3 years ago, now we have new tools to deal with it.
I used iCarsoft MBII for in-drive regeneration and it did make the difference. Point is that couple years ago you'd need SD for the procedure, now $150 scanner gives you tools to deal with it.
Other thing that come on the market is tune with DPF delete. Delicate subject as passing the smog, where required might be a problem, but couple of members who went for it are prizing the result.
The cost went down as well. First shops wanted in the range of $1000+ for the tune, now you can get it in $4-500 range.
Deleting DEF and regaining spare wheel space sure can make my day.
Seems some of the honeycombs in my filter collapsed.
But technology develop nicely and when DPF were black magic 3 years ago, now we have new tools to deal with it.
I used iCarsoft MBII for in-drive regeneration and it did make the difference. Point is that couple years ago you'd need SD for the procedure, now $150 scanner gives you tools to deal with it.
Other thing that come on the market is tune with DPF delete. Delicate subject as passing the smog, where required might be a problem, but couple of members who went for it are prizing the result.
The cost went down as well. First shops wanted in the range of $1000+ for the tune, now you can get it in $4-500 range.
Deleting DEF and regaining spare wheel space sure can make my day.
Last edited by kajtek1; 11-28-2018 at 12:36 PM.
#55
Junior Member
Mobile 1 is NOT APPROVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the 229.51and .52 specs.
On their website, there is nothing mentioned about this approval nor on their jars in the back that they are selling in stores.
If you want to KILL your engine go ahead with Mobile 1.
On their website, there is nothing mentioned about this approval nor on their jars in the back that they are selling in stores.
If you want to KILL your engine go ahead with Mobile 1.
#56
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#57
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2008 CLS 550
Reliable DPF Cleaning vs. Replacement
Try cleaning first. In Europe it's common knowledge that DPFs are cleanable. It is preposterous to assume we need to spend $2-4K every 100-150K miles on a new DPF. Yes, I admit it cannot be 100% cleaned - but it can certainly buy you a lot of value cleaning the DPF. Google it!
The great unknown is how many miles can be driven in-between cleanings. That's because every vehicle operates under different conditions, using fuel and oil from different sources, under different load conditions, and in different climates. We clean hundreds of DPFs each year and have yet to uncover a 'standard' cleaning interval for any DPF on any vehicle type/carline. Even vehicles produced on the same day with the same options perform differently in the field. The bottom line is: once you start getting REGEN calls from your ECM, schedule a cleaning (or replacement if you prefer). This is the only reliable way of ensuring your DPF performs well over it's intended service life.
Additionally, soot also collects on the face of the DOC (diesel oxygenation catalyst = catalytic converter) over time causing additional exhaust flow problems that are often difficult to diagnose (many appear as DPF-related error codes). As such, we recommend getting your DOC cleaned each time the DPF is removed for cleaning. This will ensure that no soot from the DOC gets sucked down into the clean DPF upon initial startup after reinstallation of the DPF into the vehicle.
The bottom line for light-duty DPF service (that which we're discussing here) is to ensure that the system is properly cleaned whenever you start seeing REGEN calls from your ECM, this includes the DOC as well.
Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI
Last edited by Ken Russ; 12-31-2019 at 10:07 AM.
#58
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2008 CLS 550
A good service facility should be able to determine if the sensors are bad (there are two I believe) that mostly measure temperatures both before and after the DPF. During an active test at a good service shop, they should be able to see that the sensors are giving different/changing readings as the test proceeds - indicating a greater likelihood the sensors are good and the DPF is clogged - partially by seeing the temps each sensor is reading.
The MB dealer where I live, Kalamazoo Michigan area is a total joke and virtually useless. I contacted them about servicing the DPF - cleaning/regenerating . . . and their comment was that they have never heard of such a thing! But then immediately suggested that I bring my car in to them to have it analyzed . . . but I'd have to wait several weeks before they could get me in . They may be the worst car dealership I have ever experienced - now I take my MB 45 minutes away to have it serviced at a much better MB dealer (when I have it serviced by MB).
Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI
Last edited by Ken Russ; 12-31-2019 at 10:11 AM.
#60
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2008 CLS 550
You're welcome! We're in this for the long haul and simply want our customers (and friends) to have the best possible experience with what has turned out to be a TERRIBLE nuisance issue.
Since their introduction at the beginning of the 2007 model year, diesel exhaust after-treatment systems (ATS) have evolved and changed a lot as the diesel trucking industry has learned from their customer's experiences in the field. Unfortunately, this experience has largely come at the expense of many of their customers since many ATS system failures occurred outside of the vehicle's warranty period (it often takes sensors and filters a long time to fail on their own). Again, unfortunately, this is how the automotive and trucking industries work: trial and error based upon their best initial judgment when launching a new technology, but subsequently finding faults in the system that must be corrected, and with those improvements made over the ensuing years (again, almost always on the backs of their customers).
These emissions regulations are, in large part, the net result of overtures from environmental groups pressuring the US Government to match global emissions standards that were viewed as decades-overdue in North America since most European emissions standards had been in-place since the late 1970's. Despite California having a particulate matter standard in-place since 1987 (loosely patterned after the European standard), the first EPA-endorsed sea-to-shining-sea standard in the US (“EPA07”) went into effect at the beginning of the 2007 model year with the goal of reducing particulate matter (PM) emissions by at least 85% (considered a ‘first-step’ as the US attempted to catch-up with the rest of the world). This was the most noteworthy change to diesel emissions in NA in decades since the industry had largely been left alone for many, many years leading up to that point.
Since then, largely led by European manufacturers, the industry has learned that further reductions in diesel emissions could be realized by the addition of a 2nd system catalyst (DEF/SCR), whose standard went into effect for the 2012 model year to meet the global “GHG12” & “GHG14” standards ("GreenHouse Gas 2012"/"GreenHouse Gas 2014"). Further refinement to meet a revised global standard for 2018 (“GHG18” or "GreenHouse Gas 2018") was also adopted in NA requiring a tightening of the on-vehicle analysis of exhaust gas aftertreatment. This has only caused the systems to become MORE complicated, and made diagnosing these problems even more challenging. Unfortunately, just as we seemed to get our arms around one standard, the next was introduced. This is what happens when your industrial standard lags behind those of other nations in a global economy where you’re attempting to catch up. It’s always a painful learning curve when you’re behind your peers!
Sorry for the EXTREMELY BORING history, but there are indeed reasons why all of this is happening -whether we like them or not!!!!
Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI
Since their introduction at the beginning of the 2007 model year, diesel exhaust after-treatment systems (ATS) have evolved and changed a lot as the diesel trucking industry has learned from their customer's experiences in the field. Unfortunately, this experience has largely come at the expense of many of their customers since many ATS system failures occurred outside of the vehicle's warranty period (it often takes sensors and filters a long time to fail on their own). Again, unfortunately, this is how the automotive and trucking industries work: trial and error based upon their best initial judgment when launching a new technology, but subsequently finding faults in the system that must be corrected, and with those improvements made over the ensuing years (again, almost always on the backs of their customers).
These emissions regulations are, in large part, the net result of overtures from environmental groups pressuring the US Government to match global emissions standards that were viewed as decades-overdue in North America since most European emissions standards had been in-place since the late 1970's. Despite California having a particulate matter standard in-place since 1987 (loosely patterned after the European standard), the first EPA-endorsed sea-to-shining-sea standard in the US (“EPA07”) went into effect at the beginning of the 2007 model year with the goal of reducing particulate matter (PM) emissions by at least 85% (considered a ‘first-step’ as the US attempted to catch-up with the rest of the world). This was the most noteworthy change to diesel emissions in NA in decades since the industry had largely been left alone for many, many years leading up to that point.
Since then, largely led by European manufacturers, the industry has learned that further reductions in diesel emissions could be realized by the addition of a 2nd system catalyst (DEF/SCR), whose standard went into effect for the 2012 model year to meet the global “GHG12” & “GHG14” standards ("GreenHouse Gas 2012"/"GreenHouse Gas 2014"). Further refinement to meet a revised global standard for 2018 (“GHG18” or "GreenHouse Gas 2018") was also adopted in NA requiring a tightening of the on-vehicle analysis of exhaust gas aftertreatment. This has only caused the systems to become MORE complicated, and made diagnosing these problems even more challenging. Unfortunately, just as we seemed to get our arms around one standard, the next was introduced. This is what happens when your industrial standard lags behind those of other nations in a global economy where you’re attempting to catch up. It’s always a painful learning curve when you’re behind your peers!
Sorry for the EXTREMELY BORING history, but there are indeed reasons why all of this is happening -whether we like them or not!!!!
Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI
#61
Junior Member
I understood that when the differential pressure across the DFP increased to a certain point the engine went into DFP cleaning mode & gave a richer mixture to burn off the carbon & clean the unit.
Can you check check if this mode is happening ?.
$3900 sounds crazy.
I am glad I don't have one & will put up with washing the soot of the rear of the car every 3000 km.
Can you check check if this mode is happening ?.
$3900 sounds crazy.
I am glad I don't have one & will put up with washing the soot of the rear of the car every 3000 km.
#62
See
https://www.dpfregeneration.com/
Regards
Joseph~
#64
Junior Member
Send your DPF for cleaning cost less than $500.00 if you remove and send out.
See
https://www.dpfregeneration.com/
Regards
Joseph~
See
https://www.dpfregeneration.com/
Regards
Joseph~
Should them clean (reset) the code after DPF cleaned or not?
Some people says but I don't know if they did it or not.
Thanks for refer the cleaning company. I will contact them.
#65
Member
The shop that try to clean mine said that after cleaning the diagnostic showed again the code for DAP.
Should them clean (reset) the code after DPF cleaned or not?
Some people says but I don't know if they did it or not.
Thanks for refer the cleaning company. I will contact them.
Should them clean (reset) the code after DPF cleaned or not?
Some people says but I don't know if they did it or not.
Thanks for refer the cleaning company. I will contact them.
The OM642 pressure differential sensor is notorious for becoming water soaked from condensation and cause those reading to be skewed. My suggestion would be to remove the sensor and shake it to see if its filled with water and replace if it is.
#66
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I send my DPF for cleaning in Las Vegas/.Henderson shop. They picked it up from my home and the quote was $500.
Than I've got a call that my DPF has mechanical damage and it will not hold the inspection parameters. I have seen the damage before sending, so there was no question about it.
They brought the DPF back to my place with no charge at all.
Than I've got a call that my DPF has mechanical damage and it will not hold the inspection parameters. I have seen the damage before sending, so there was no question about it.
They brought the DPF back to my place with no charge at all.
#67
if you were to guess on how often the DPF should be cleaned as a preventative maintenance, what interval would that be? (I'm obviously saying this with the assumption that, at some point, normal and routine regeneration process does not do the trick anymore). 100K miles??? or 150K miles???
Last edited by mellonc; 03-12-2020 at 12:48 PM.
#68
Member
if you were to guess on how often the DPF should be cleaned as a preventative maintenance, what interval would that be? (I'm obviously saying this with the assumption that, at some point, normal and routing regeneration process does not do the trick anymore). 100K miles??? or 150K miles???
IMO its next to impossible to determine unless you have access to a star machine or another scan tool that can show flow resistance, ash content, and load state.
#69
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peter2772000 (03-13-2020)
#71
I called around my area for DPF cleaning places in Los Angeles. I found 2. One shop said i have to take the DPF apart and take it there. The other one said, he won't touch mine because MBs are hard to work on.....
They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south. I realize deleting is an option (legality matter not withstanding) but I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value...
They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south. I realize deleting is an option (legality matter not withstanding) but I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value...
#72
FWIW My comments and Opinion.......It is Your Money
I called around my area for DPF cleaning places in Los Angeles. I found 2. One shop said i have to take the DPF apart and take it there. The other one said, he won't touch mine because MBs are hard to work on.....
They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south. I realize deleting is an option (legality matter not withstanding) but I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value...
They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south. I realize deleting is an option (legality matter not withstanding) but I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value...
Purchase a refurbished unit from MB dealer around $2,000.00 plus your old one or pay $400.00 more. The core is worth $400.00 to a MB dealer
Person who said.............................."The other one said, he won't touch mine because MBs are hard to work on".....
DOSE NOT KNOW HOW TO WORK ON THE VEHICLE!
If you work on your car yourself you should have / get an offline WIS copy, cost less than $30.00 {WIS is the factory service manual]
..........................."They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south.".........................
IS PREMIERE BULLSHYTE!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Least expensive and best results;
Delete pipe around $400.00
two new clamps factory originals $20.00 - $25.00
Software delete if you have to hire a person cost around $200.00
You do the work, last time you have an issue
..............."I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value"...
Save the DPF, reinstall when you sell.
Regards
Joseph~
#73
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2012 X6 35i Sport, 2013 ML 350 BT, 2019 4Runner TRD Pro, 2020 CRV-AWD
$1,400 got me a DPF/DEF/EGR delete and a retune, as well as piece of mind.
Last edited by peter2772000; 03-13-2020 at 03:38 AM.
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#74
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Since the topic started lot of things changed, so for those who have DPF issues, evaluate with new technology. EPA lately is chasing illegal tunes and some tuners are forced to not only stop selling the tunes "for offroad use" but also track customers and send them tuning back offer. Things to consider:
-ScanGauge monitors DPF soot level and regeneration status. That allows for monitoring DPF health and avoid abording regenerations, what is the biggest problem on short drives.
-more and more DPF regeneration shops are opening, lowering the prices
-Liqui Moly and other manufacturers come with cleaning solutions
-latest experiences also indicate that DEF tank internal unit (heater) don't like to be exposed with low fluid, so keep refilling at 1/2. ScanGauge allows for reading DEF level.
-ScanGauge monitors DPF soot level and regeneration status. That allows for monitoring DPF health and avoid abording regenerations, what is the biggest problem on short drives.
-more and more DPF regeneration shops are opening, lowering the prices
-Liqui Moly and other manufacturers come with cleaning solutions
-latest experiences also indicate that DEF tank internal unit (heater) don't like to be exposed with low fluid, so keep refilling at 1/2. ScanGauge allows for reading DEF level.
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#75
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Heck, quite a drastic change in the ideas since the topic started. Government is not asleep on the issue.
https://driving-ca.cdn.ampproject.or...r-rolling-coal
I also found it funny that it is Canadian article about US bussiness.
https://driving-ca.cdn.ampproject.or...r-rolling-coal
I also found it funny that it is Canadian article about US bussiness.