ssalaria

Hi Zoink.
I just posted my DPF issue and saw yours below mine. Its strange that Mercedes CPO warranty will not cover DPF. Sounds really odd to me. You should look into this more as long as its a Mercedes CPO warranty. My understanding/learning is that DPF doesn't go bad by itself and shouldn't go bad at this mileage. Something causes for it to go bad. If you have turbos, I would recommend having a look at them. If there is oil leak from the turbos they will cause your DPF to malfunction.
Good luck!

DC-BENZ

I believe certain states have different emission warranty periods. So depending on where yours was first sold determines your emissions warranty period.

chsu74

I had regen failure codes in my GL 320. My shop was successful using Liqui Moly DPF cleaner to clear codes. No need to buy a new PDF. My shop also uses this stuff to clean clogged cats on gassers as well and swears by this. Usual not affiliated and only a satisfied customer yada yada..

Note: the vehicle will smoke like a freight train during cleaning process.

kajtek1

Liqui Moly purge did not fix my DPF even I used cleaner/purge combo.
Seems some of the honeycombs in my filter collapsed.
But technology develop nicely and when DPF were black magic 3 years ago, now we have new tools to deal with it.
I used iCarsoft MBII for in-drive regeneration and it did make the difference. Point is that couple years ago you'd need SD for the procedure, now $150 scanner gives you tools to deal with it.
Other thing that come on the market is tune with DPF delete. Delicate subject as passing the smog, where required might be a problem, but couple of members who went for it are prizing the result.
The cost went down as well. First shops wanted in the range of $1000+ for the tune, now you can get it in $4-500 range.
Deleting DEF and regaining spare wheel space sure can make my day.

Chamelleon

Mobile 1 is NOT APPROVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the 229.51and .52 specs.

On their website, there is nothing mentioned about this approval nor on their jars in the back that they are selling in stores.

If you want to KILL your engine go ahead with Mobile 1.

gkgeiger

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/m...il-1-esp#0W-30

Ken Russ

Yes, Europe has been cleaning DPFs for many, many years now (their environmental regulations are about 7-10 years ahead of those in the US). Typically, the only time a DPF needs to be replaced is if its substrate is melted or cracked -and thus letting particulate matter through. Conversely, regular cleaning of a filter of any age or mileage can dramatically improve its function (we have some on the road that we've cleaned several times over the course of several hundred thousand miles) and thus the vehicle's performance. However, I would disagree that a DPF can not be 100% cleaned. We clean DPFs every day and restore them to 100% of their OEM-specified flow rate (like-new condition). A lot of that has to do with cleaning techniques (which vary from source to source), but we use only those techniques pioneered in Europe proven reliable for almost 3 decades.

The great unknown is how many miles can be driven in-between cleanings. That's because every vehicle operates under different conditions, using fuel and oil from different sources, under different load conditions, and in different climates. We clean hundreds of DPFs each year and have yet to uncover a 'standard' cleaning interval for any DPF on any vehicle type/carline. Even vehicles produced on the same day with the same options perform differently in the field. The bottom line is: once you start getting REGEN calls from your ECM, schedule a cleaning (or replacement if you prefer). This is the only reliable way of ensuring your DPF performs well over it's intended service life.

Generally speaking, this is true. Engine cold startups create some soot. But short trips and a lot of idling time are the main culprits responsible for soot generation. This is because exhaust temperatures don’t reach the level necessary to convert the soot to ash (>650 degrees F) under those circumstances. Efficient DPF performance is largely the result of elevated and maintained exhaust temperatures for long periods of time. These elevated temperatures convert sticky soot to ash which drifts further down inside the DPF -thus allowing the filter to “breath” better for longer durations. At lower operating temperatures, unconverted soot collects on the face of the DPF substrate -thus blocking normal exhaust gas flow and foreshortening DPF service intervals. The only real solution to this problem is to get the filter cleaned or [God-forbid], replaced regularly.

Additionally, soot also collects on the face of the DOC (diesel oxygenation catalyst = catalytic converter) over time causing additional exhaust flow problems that are often difficult to diagnose (many appear as DPF-related error codes). As such, we recommend getting your DOC cleaned each time the DPF is removed for cleaning. This will ensure that no soot from the DOC gets sucked down into the clean DPF upon initial startup after reinstallation of the DPF into the vehicle.

Generally speaking, this is also true. Commercial vehicle DPFs are quite a bit larger to compensate for the WIDE RANGE of conditions under which these vehicles operate (trip distance, trip length, varying loads, climates, fuels, oils, etc…).

The bottom line for light-duty DPF service (that which we're discussing here) is to ensure that the system is properly cleaned whenever you start seeing REGEN calls from your ECM, this includes the DOC as well.

Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI

Ken Russ

DPF service interval mileage is one of the most difficult elements of a diesel exhaust system to predict. We see service intervals anywhere from 50,000 miles (local delivery trucks) to 300,000 miles (long-haul semi trucks, and everywhere in-between. But one thing is certain: no two vehicles experience the same service intervals.

We see DPF cost range anywhere from $650 to $7,500 depending on vehicle/engine. Vehicle production volume is a contributing factor since parts are often priced based upon volumes-of-scale. Of course the big unknown in part pricing is dealership markup -which varies by region/market. Shop around!

Please note that regeneration IS NOT the same as cleaning. The SOLE purpose of regeneration is to convert the sticky soot to ash which allows the ash to drift further down inside the DPF -thus aiding efficient exhaust flow through the porous DPF substrate (and because ash takes up less room inside the DPF than soot). Also, “chemical cleaning” (meaning harsh stripping chemicals often used in ‘on-the-vehicle-cleaning’ systems) are risky because they can damage the palladium and platinum inside your DPF/DOC. This, in-turn, can throw off your vehicle’s sensors ability to properly read what they are programmed to read, causing other difficult-to-diagnose problems. Aqueous detergent cleaning is thus-far the best method of cleaning your DPF and DOC because it does not harm the catalytic elements of your exhaust system, and remains the ONLY system fully endorsed by most OEM’s for proper DPF cleaning.

This has not been our experience. We’ve found emissions sensors to be very reliable. The #1 problem we find with sensors is that they are hard to remove after countless thermal cycles on the vehicle, and thus get damaged when attempting removal during DPF servicing.

Generally, this is correct. Most post-2011 model year systems include temp sensors before and after the DOC (measuring catalytic temp), air pressure sensors before and after the DPF (measuring exhaust pressure before and after the DPF, which determines DPF flow performance: soot/ash level), and NOx sensors before the DOC and after the DPF (measuring catalytic performance of the system). All post-2011 model year systems also include an SCR chamber (”Selective Catalytic Reduction” chamber = urea injection/mixing) which also has before/after NOx sensors.

Please note that DPF cleaning is something that some dealerships recommend against because they make a ton of money off replacement part sales -even though the OEM that manufactures the car they sell DO advocate cleaning the filters as-opposed to replacing them. Additionally, the #1 problem we encounter in the industry is LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. We meet people every day who have worked in the industry for years that have no idea that these things can actually be cleaned. Some of our biggest and most loyal fleet customers are those we showed can save a ton of money by cleaning as opposed to replacing!

Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI

Jpkcpa

Thank you Ken for a very detailed explanation

Ken Russ

You're welcome! We're in this for the long haul and simply want our customers (and friends) to have the best possible experience with what has turned out to be a TERRIBLE nuisance issue.

Since their introduction at the beginning of the 2007 model year, diesel exhaust after-treatment systems (ATS) have evolved and changed a lot as the diesel trucking industry has learned from their customer's experiences in the field. Unfortunately, this experience has largely come at the expense of many of their customers since many ATS system failures occurred outside of the vehicle's warranty period (it often takes sensors and filters a long time to fail on their own). Again, unfortunately, this is how the automotive and trucking industries work: trial and error based upon their best initial judgment when launching a new technology, but subsequently finding faults in the system that must be corrected, and with those improvements made over the ensuing years (again, almost always on the backs of their customers).

These emissions regulations are, in large part, the net result of overtures from environmental groups pressuring the US Government to match global emissions standards that were viewed as decades-overdue in North America since most European emissions standards had been in-place since the late 1970's. Despite California having a particulate matter standard in-place since 1987 (loosely patterned after the European standard), the first EPA-endorsed sea-to-shining-sea standard in the US (“EPA07”) went into effect at the beginning of the 2007 model year with the goal of reducing particulate matter (PM) emissions by at least 85% (considered a ‘first-step’ as the US attempted to catch-up with the rest of the world). This was the most noteworthy change to diesel emissions in NA in decades since the industry had largely been left alone for many, many years leading up to that point.

Since then, largely led by European manufacturers, the industry has learned that further reductions in diesel emissions could be realized by the addition of a 2nd system catalyst (DEF/SCR), whose standard went into effect for the 2012 model year to meet the global “GHG12” & “GHG14” standards ("GreenHouse Gas 2012"/"GreenHouse Gas 2014"). Further refinement to meet a revised global standard for 2018 (“GHG18” or "GreenHouse Gas 2018") was also adopted in NA requiring a tightening of the on-vehicle analysis of exhaust gas aftertreatment. This has only caused the systems to become MORE complicated, and made diagnosing these problems even more challenging. Unfortunately, just as we seemed to get our arms around one standard, the next was introduced. This is what happens when your industrial standard lags behind those of other nations in a global economy where you’re attempting to catch up. It’s always a painful learning curve when you’re behind your peers!

Sorry for the EXTREMELY BORING history, but there are indeed reasons why all of this is happening -whether we like them or not!!!!

Ken Russ
CleanTEK Emissions Systems
Detroit, MI

nyko46

I have the same issue with my E320 Bluetec with 118 K miles. A Mercedes shop asked me $2900.00 for the part only.

Joseph~

Send your DPF for cleaning cost less than $500.00 if you remove and send out.

See
https://www.dpfregeneration.com/

Regards

Joseph~

GoodByeHonda

Any recommended Canadian locations?

nyko46

The shop that try to clean mine said that after cleaning the diagnostic showed again the code for DAP.
Should them clean (reset) the code after DPF cleaned or not?
Some people says but I don't know if they did it or not.
Thanks for refer the cleaning company. I will contact them.

dhurley

DPF should not be replaced or cleaned solely on the basis of a code. The load percentage and ash content should be monitored in DAS or equivalent to confirm the state of the filter.

The OM642 pressure differential sensor is notorious for becoming water soaked from condensation and cause those reading to be skewed. My suggestion would be to remove the sensor and shake it to see if its filled with water and replace if it is.

kajtek1

I send my DPF for cleaning in Las Vegas/.Henderson shop. They picked it up from my home and the quote was $500.
Than I've got a call that my DPF has mechanical damage and it will not hold the inspection parameters. I have seen the damage before sending, so there was no question about it.
They brought the DPF back to my place with no charge at all.

mellonc

if you were to guess on how often the DPF should be cleaned as a preventative maintenance, what interval would that be? (I'm obviously saying this with the assumption that, at some point, normal and routine regeneration process does not do the trick anymore). 100K miles??? or 150K miles???

dhurley

I dont think there can be a one size fits all answer to this because it depends on so many variables like fuel quality, oil spec, altitude, location, driving habits, etc....

IMO its next to impossible to determine unless you have access to a star machine or another scan tool that can show flow resistance, ash content, and load state.

Joseph~

FWIW..............My "preventative maintenance" is to remove the DPF physically and software delete.

Regards

Joseph~

Chamelleon

#Joseph

mellonc

I called around my area for DPF cleaning places in Los Angeles. I found 2. One shop said i have to take the DPF apart and take it there. The other one said, he won't touch mine because MBs are hard to work on.....

They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south. I realize deleting is an option (legality matter not withstanding) but I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value...

Joseph~

https://www.dpfregeneration.com in Stradford, CT, you send them the DPF they clean it, cost for was $400.00 in November 2019, you have to remove and replace.

Purchase a refurbished unit from MB dealer around $2,000.00 plus your old one or pay $400.00 more. The core is worth $400.00 to a MB dealer

Person who said.............................."The other one said, he won't touch mine because MBs are hard to work on".....

DOSE NOT KNOW HOW TO WORK ON THE VEHICLE!

If you work on your car yourself you should have / get an offline WIS copy, cost less than $30.00 {WIS is the factory service manual]

..........................."They both said to delete the dpf saying that at some point, it will go south.".........................

IS PREMIERE BULLSHYTE!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Least expensive and best results;

Delete pipe around $400.00

two new clamps factory originals $20.00 - $25.00

Software delete if you have to hire a person cost around $200.00

You do the work, last time you have an issue

..............."I just don't know what that'll do to do the resale value"...

Save the DPF, reinstall when you sell.


Regards

Joseph~

peter2772000

Which is what I did as well!

$1,400 got me a DPF/DEF/EGR delete and a retune, as well as piece of mind.

kajtek1

Since the topic started lot of things changed, so for those who have DPF issues, evaluate with new technology. EPA lately is chasing illegal tunes and some tuners are forced to not only stop selling the tunes "for offroad use" but also track customers and send them tuning back offer. Things to consider:
-ScanGauge monitors DPF soot level and regeneration status. That allows for monitoring DPF health and avoid abording regenerations, what is the biggest problem on short drives.
-more and more DPF regeneration shops are opening, lowering the prices
-Liqui Moly and other manufacturers come with cleaning solutions
-latest experiences also indicate that DEF tank internal unit (heater) don't like to be exposed with low fluid, so keep refilling at 1/2. ScanGauge allows for reading DEF level.

kajtek1

Heck, quite a drastic change in the ideas since the topic started. Government is not asleep on the issue.
https://driving-ca.cdn.ampproject.or...r-rolling-coal
I also found it funny that it is Canadian article about US bussiness.