diesel2fast4u

You need a bosch KTS, nothing else can do it (at the moment)

gaiex

What about a Carsoft mutliplexer!?
I remembered that I have one laying around somewere in a box, but is a 7.4 version, don't know if it will worl with my 2008 car (2005 tecnology when it was out) I have to try it out!

diesel2fast4u

You have some nice things laying around

What you need is a real turbo on that 08 320CDI

I have a 2260 from the new 265HP engine , ball bearing water cooled, ready to go on my 642 in my grand cherokee

gaiex

Can you post some turbine pictures and water line of your turbo please?
I had an offer for 2 of those turbos but they looked like the normal 2260 and I was confused!

PS: Can we add a water line to the new turbo through the turbo mount from the engine or water line is just not there on the top of the engine?

diesel2fast4u

The mounting bolts are slightly wider and the original flange doesn't have water in it. I am ordering the flange from the newer type. Since I am deleting the EGR and the waterlines are passing by, the water shouldn't be the biggest problem...

gaiex

Don't you have a picture of the turbo without those red plastic covers?

DubVBenz

Do you know what is involved with this swap? Is it plug and play? what about space issues and the ECU? I know the current turbo sits in the valley between the each bank of cylinders and space is limited..

diesel2fast4u

Is to sexy to post (I'll take some pics later)

It does fit but the mounting holes are slightly placed wider & larger.
It's water cooled and the original mount doesn't have any water passing through.
I ordered the original mounting bracket and will see from there

DubVBenz

Thanks, that's what I'm really interested in learning about. An easy 50HP upgrade with a new turbo would be great!

diesel2fast4u

I am looking for 325...

gaiex

I don't want too much, let me have 300hp and I then I will see...!

puch

Qwestion is the EMS you use from Skynam? I have been looking on there website http://www.skynam.com/ and sent them a email but did not get a reply.

Can you tell a bit more on pricing and what you actually need to get your engine running on this system?

diesel2fast4u

PM me your email, I'll send full details & pricing to you

puch

Well if you don’t mind I like to continuo this conversation on in formation in they open so we can all benefit from it.

I must say great project you done so far.

I have been involved in an project with a offshore race boat with a diesel engine and we spend a small fortune on aftermarket diesel ECU systems.
We also know that a lot of information on these diesel systems is kept behind close doors so it’s hard to find out what’s working and what need a fair bit of trail and error.
Diesel aftermarket systems seems to be booming and many upgrade there petrol ECU systems but not knowing a lot about this they cut corners as injector driver and injectors get damaged and drivers tripping out on temperature.
In the end we went to a professional diesel tuner that delivered a good system and results.

We know now that some of the aftermarket diesel systems will not be able to perform to the max for a very long time as there not recovering the energy from the injector and use a power consuming method for the peak period to open the injector giving massive heat buildup in the injector driver packs and overloading the circuits so if you read in the manual that there is a limit on the amount of injections over RPM you can be sure the drivers are not working very efficient. In fact bosch also build injector drivers parts and explains to use a other more expensive type of injector driver if you go over a injection limit.

Please sent me a PM on pricing but let us know is this the first time you use a ECU like this as I can nor read any thing about this.

About the VNT turbo you can encounter problems if you run these over 800 degrees EGT for long time.
You run them in parallel so the ECU dos not know if one get stuck open or close. If it stays closed it takes about 5 seconds until the turbo blows up asking full power from the engine.
We had this a couple of times and we now used modified internals on the VNT turbo so we went up to 900 degrees with no problem on some race engines running 24hour races.

diesel2fast4u

Dear Sir, I can understand your opinion.

Mayby I can also post our map (when it's done) and all 3D drawings?

Please, 90% of the cost in a project like this is R&D.
Lot's of nice people on forums but I have been thinking about stopping all these posts because people think hey I get a salvage engine for 2000 bucks, some turbo's, buy a 500 dollar computer, weld some stuff and I have 400 HP twin turbo diesel race engine...
booming business that would be

You seem to know something about this.

What do you mean with recovering energy from an injector? How does that work.

No problem with turbo control, we can do 3 different on one engine, sequential or parallel, all separate controled.

Injector driver get's up 60°C on full load, we air cool it.

It is not the first time we use a computer like this

Everything after EDC 15 from bosch will not work in a stand alone setup without all abs, airbag etc sensors, original cluster, key, often even the headlight switch.

Unless you know somebody inside Bosch who put's his job on the line...

I'll pm you, but I don't have one from you

puch

It seems your also trying to get this project commercially working but I think it will be very hard to get the R&D cost out of this project en get some reliability out of this engine so it can be used on commercial base.
Well yes in fact you can take an old engine but and aftermarket diesel ecu system will cost about 2500Euro for this engine so in general this will kill most of these projects greatly underestimating the cost involved.


Well yes after some trail and error with diesel aftermarket ecu systems you get to know things.
On a small bosch commonrail injector you have normally 3 stages of coil control.
Boost peak and hold.
Boost voltage on a bosch injector is 60V and it’s used to get the current fast to the set current limit/level.
The peak period maintains the max current setting for some time until the injector valve has opened completely. Bosch uses the battery supply for this.
That last stage is the hold setting where the current is maintained at lower level to keep the valve open. They do this with PWM or pulse wide modulation by turning the negative FET on and off.

Some aftermarket systems only have peak and hold so they use also the 60V boost voltage and PWM the get the peak current needed. As the boost voltage is stored in big capacitors there will be no problem to get the current needed. The downside on this system is that a voltage regulator combined with a DC/AC/DC converter has to supply the power for the boost voltage and that’s why these systems have a limit in how many injections you can have over time if the boost voltage supply is to small. Second downside is you need a lot of energy to run this system and this will create heat buildup in the driver unit.

We now use an injector driver system that has both a boost voltage supply and recovers boost voltage from the injector coil.
As a injector coil can be seen as an inductor you can effectively use it also as a transformer when you apply PWM on it. When you energize a coil electrical energy will be stored in the coil. When you turn off the coil this electrical energy is released from the coil with a reversed polarity. Knowing this all you need is a very efficient rectifier to feed this energy back into to the boost voltage of the injectordriver so we only need to boost voltage supply for the first injections and than the injector coil will take care of the boostvoltage effectively running a more efficient system will about 70% less heat build-up in the driver pack.

Last thing on this part is that most systems do not use a short-circuit protection on the injector outputs and if you get a ground or short in the wiring as we had it blows up not only the injector driver but also half of the injector coils went up in smoke so we now have current limiting also during the boost/peak period.


What I mend with the two turbo running in parallel is that if one VNT gets stuck and your activator dos not have the option to give a position feedback to the ECU the change will be there that this turbo will blow it self up.

I know some people from bosch and I think they can get this unwanted ABS airbag and so on thing out up to the second generation commonrail. They did this on some G class rally raid cars.

diesel2fast4u

So you were the one sending me an email playing the interested customer... and phoning for a system that just has to run stationary...

If the mercedes 320CDI inline isn't reliable then imo there isn't one on the market

You are not recovering anything from your injector, you ask if we control injector voltage & yes we can : (from our manual)

1) For the piezoelectric commands, the tension of command of injectors is managed dynamically from 95 to 180 volts, by a function of the fuel high pressure.
The module gives a diagnostic of the working of its internal high tension and of the working of injectors.
2) For the electromagnetic commands, the command of injectors is managed on peak and hold. The peak tension is tunable between 20 volts and 65 volts, and the duration and the peak current are also adjustable. The hold current is adjustable from 1 to 18 amperes.
The module gives a diagnostic of the working of its internal high tension and of the working of injectors.
3) The injections are sequential phased on the beginning of injection, and the complete system (ECU + driver) accepts the covering of injection of a cylinder by an other one: there are thus no constraints on the phase nor the length of the injections, contrary to the systems which do not agree to make two injections at the same time and have to make a collision management between cylinders.
4) The fuel quantity to be injected is given in milligrams, resolution 1/10° milligram. Milligrams are then transformed into cubic millimeters (resolution 1/10° cubic millimeter) by a function taking into account the fuel temperature, a correction which can be made for each cylinder (for tuning the disparities between injectors).
Then cubic millimeters are transformed into injection times in microseconds according to the type of injector used.
5) There are 5 possible injections in the engine working:
- The Pilot 2 injection
- The Pilot 1 injection
- The Main injection
- The complementary injection or advanced post injection (on option) - the delayed post injection
They are distributed in 3 groups:
- The torque injection, which gives some fuel to the engine to supply the torque
- the delayed post injection which sends some fuel to the particles filter, for the cleanup.
- The complementary injection (on option), between the main injection and the post injection,
serves as advanced post injection, used to warm exhaust gases. The torque injection can itself be broken in three, in this order:
- The pilot 2 injection (very advanced) - The pilot 1 injection (advanced)
- The main injection
5) The ECU controls in real time (during the engine working) that the intervals are sufficient between the different injections of the same cylinder.
The allowed interval of time depends on the fuel pressure and on the duration of the previous injection.
If the interval between 2 injections of the sequence:
Pilot 2 – Pilot 1 – Main – Complementary – Post
is too short, the injector has no time to close and the quantity of fuel is increased there.
The ECU repositions then the inaccurate phases of the injections in precedence order.

Turbo's are VGT not VNT and have an electronic actuator so yes it does read the position

VW is running on of these ECU & injector drivers to do R&D work.
A bowler with a 3.0 audi V6 is race ready.
and more...

No back on topic, open one if you want to discuss stand alone systems

puch

Indeed weird. My college sent and e-mail for information and you did not reply and no we do not work on stationary engines.

About the injector driver packs. I’m sure it will work out fine. I was only trying to warn you.
On most engines they cool the ECU with fuel, maybe this can be a idea.


I agree

Will sent you a PM.

diesel2fast4u

gaiex

Thanks for the picture

I was wondering if the shaft of the turbine was any different from the normal ones!

gaiex

Any one here knows if the V6 OM642 engine have any oil line that can be used for a oil cooler?

diesel2fast4u

oil cooler is standard, in the V, under the intake

gaiex

it's a water/oil cooler, and the water is allready hot, all MB engines have it, but I want to install an air/oil cooler with a thermostat for the 30-40ēC summer days.
Since We are talking chip tuning and doing other stuff to our engines, I think it will be a essencial upgrade!

PS: AMG models, and also the C30CDI AMG have a air/oil cooler on the front rigth side, near the fog ligth.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/mercedes-Klim...ht_3143wt_1163

diesel2fast4u

I have a 642 in parts, I'll take the oilcooler of for you and take some pics

diesel2fast4u

Easy, take off the original one, stainless plate that replaces the original one, you can use the water canals to feed the watercooled turbo and at the same tame put an intake manifold on it that works