dave2001auto

The simple answer to the dpf is space!

There is no viscosity issue here. Blending to the higher end of a specific viscosity range just increases the price of the formulation. Today the heavier base stocks are more expensive than the lighter ones.

Benz OE 229,52 is not made by ExxonMobil.[/QUOTE]

I got that info from US MSDS on the mercedes 229.52 oil
The mechanic said the oil shorted out the swirl motor due to the oil's conductivity and ability to creep up wire. So this explanation is incorrect?

What do you mean that the dpf is space? Going to fail soon? The upstream oxygen sensor threw a code after 100 miles of highway driving.

This car's maintenance is getting expensive. Especially if the dpf needs replacing.

dave2001auto

Will liq moly 4605 a HC based 229.52 product out preform 229.51 oil in a 2009 e320 bluetec?

marc hanna

If there is a lot of iron and other suspended solids in the oil, that could potentially cause enough conductivity, but I still doubt this is the cause.

Don't emissions components come with a min. 10 year warranty?

Edit: 8 years or 80,000 miles for Specified Major Emission Components
-the DPF is oddly absent from the law

Glyn M Ruck

No. The differences in 51 to 52 make no difference to performance. They introduce another viscosity grade & reduce Chlorine's for recycling purposes!

dave2001auto

Most linear chlorinated compounds especially fully chlorinated are very stable.
The tech sheet is implying a longer oci with the new 4605 oil. I can see a 40 weight going above the mercedes viscosity spec while the 30 weight will take long to get that thick. I thought that the antioxidant were increased with the 229.52 oil and can be used in both 229.5 and 229.51 if the viscosity of 30 was okay.
So the extra $1 per liter would be just for recycling?

Glyn M Ruck

The reduction in chlorines in 229.52 is purely so they don't pollute other oils when mixed for recycling. No increase in antiox!

marc hanna

The starting viscosity is not necessarily an indication of how soon it will thicken out of spec. It's the performance properties of the oil and the operating conditions. Most oils should see a drop in viscosity first, and then an increase as they get contaminated with soot and fuel. Therefore it's quite possible that one formulation at 40w may straight-line drop in viscosity while another 30w may straight-line increase (or vice versa).

Glyn M Ruck

Main causes of oil thinning:
1) Shear of the VI improver or viscosity modifiers in Multigrade oils
2) Fuel dilution
3) High temperature thermal cracking
4) HTHS of the base stock

Main Causes of oil thickening:
1) Soot & other contaminants in oil
2) Oxidation
3) Evapourative thickening due to loss of light ends. Poor (high) Noack values of the base oil

Carsy

An interesting discussion. Thankyou.

I don't think there has been any mention of how well each oil actually cleans the working areas of the engine i.e. keeping the rings/bore free & clean .

I would think that more contaminants in an oil is a good thing because the detergents are doing their job. I suppose it is how well the oil handles these contaminants is the main thing?.

marc hanna

More contaminants in the oil is never a good thing. But I see what you're getting at.

The ability to strip contaminants from an existing bad situation and hold them in suspension may be a good attribute. On the other hand, you actually want them to settle out in the oil pan so that they don't get circulated throughout the engine for subsequent extraction during an oil change. In such cases though, i think you would want to have short oil change intervals, until the contamination levels start to wane, or when the appropriate repair is made. This might be what you would expect in a remedial situation.

At any rate, you don't want to see high contaminants on an ongoing basis, because that means your oil isn't doing its job, or something else more severe is going on. Consider the detergents in oil as a preventative cleaning - not remedial - that's what other products are made for; like Seafoam.

kajtek1

You should not have contaminats in the oil to start with. That what the filter is for.
Glyn seems to be oil expert here, but I heard story that with advanced oil filtration and chem pack replenish, you can run motor oil indefinitely.
That suppose what they do on ship engines that run high hr very fast and tons of oil make expensive filtration worth while.
Than my old 2-cycle Detrot diesel was allowing 100,000 miles oil intervals. It had remote filter in good size, that was easy to replace, although the manual did not call for new filter between changes.

marc hanna

+1

If you have a back flushing micron filter, you should be able to run indefinitely (relatively speaking - even micron filter elements need to be replaced eventually, but they should last for several years)

marc hanna

That being said, with the amount of EGR these days, there's a lot more crap getting past the rings into the oil.

GL350ALOSER

Reading this thread is like reliving the last three weeks! GL350 complete engine failure while traveling on interstate. Lucky no one was injured. No warning lights. Car is 2011 with 118K miles so out of warranty. Spent more than 8K on repairs in the last 14 months, including timing chain and oil leaks. Was never warned about possibility of a complete engine failure, otherwise would never have risked my family's safety (as well as safety of drivers around us at the time of failure). Only serviced at MB dealerships and always on time. MB knows but pretends they don't. MBUSA also pretends to care - offering $2 to $3k toward new MB - seriously? We will see what local MB dealer says this week re trade in value of dead car. Not optimistic after reading this and thank you for potentially saving me months of beating my head against MB's wall of indifference and, in some cases, deceit. My hope is that people considering buying bluetec from MB will run away from this car and this company. Paid premium price for what was billed as a premium product by a premium company. What I got was more than $10k in repairs over 5 years and a dead car. Again if you are reading this because you are considering buying this or similar vehicle, do your homework because these posts are just a tip of the Mercedes Benz nightmare iceberg.

arto_wa

Been driving it for over five years and a first post here eh!

Could you tell us little more details of what happened?

Carsy

Sorry to hear of your plight.

Interested to know what engine oil MB used in their servicing. Did the engine seize?

GL350ALOSER

Looking into the service records re type of oil - but looking at this thread it seems like it won't make much of a difference in getting MB to step up. They've demonstrated that they are not good with stairs.

$1,200 just for MB service guys to try and find out what was wrong with the car. They said crank shaft was stripped and didn't go any further because of expense to find out root cause. I asked MBUSA if they cared about what happened particularly given the potential safety nightmare when a car's engine just stops. Service rep said they did care but that doesn't seem to translate into figuring out what's happening with the vehicle or they already know - otherwise risky business to risk injury to customers.

We are going to see what type of salvage value we can get for the car - which is in fantastic shape - body, interior. Shame as the car was a beautiful beast!

kajtek1

Sad to hear you incident GL350ALOSER.
You are one more person that has problem with dealer-serviced car.
I think there must be something to it.
My 320 Bluetec was dealer-serviced by PO and even the car is pristine at >160k, I had to spend $600 to fix dealer-inflicted issues under the hood.
Clogged filters, bend clips. split hoses, rapture orings, broken grommets.
As long as car will not show light on the dashboard, the owner is unaware about lousy job. They wash top of the cover, while leaving several lb of gunk on the engine.

arto_wa

Please tell us what type of oil and how many miles since the change, or did it just run out of engine lube oil?


Worn out timing chain in 118,000 miles sounds little premature.

marc hanna

It appears as though these failures are dealer related, because it's certainly not an endemic problem. These motors have been manufactured for many years now and continue to be so, and you would expect these failures, if they were design related to be more prominent.

It would be a reasonable hypothesis that the dealers are cheaping-out on the oil they use. I do my own oil changes and perform routine oil analysis, and there are no signs of sludging or mechanical wear, and I have just over 120,000 kms on mine now.

It wouldn't surprise me if the dealers were just putting 229.5 oil in there, thinking it doesn't matter.

Carsy

I would like to see whether the oil was still a fluid or had sludged. They may have taken the sump off to check the crankshaft.

EricM

Interesting thread. I've only got 13,500 miles on my 2014 ML350 Bluetec (my first Mercedes and I love it). I was thinking of upgrading to a GLS350d when they finally start selling them later this year, but this thread, particularly how MBUSA treated the OP, has given me pause. I certainly won't be keeping my ML350 beyond the warranty period!

kajtek1

That is not going to be cheap neither
Would I be in your shoes, I would keep every single receipt from services and make double sure the receipts are detailed.
Somehow I have a feeling that the above incidents are dealer-inflicted and not necessary have to be bad engine design.

marc hanna

You also have to remember, this thread shows a couple isolated incidents. There are a lot of these engines out there - millions - these were in the R-class, ML, GL, E, Sprinter, Grand Cherokee, and Chrysler 300.

I've only heard the testimony of half a dozen people having this problem. Mind you, their voices are loud, but if it were a design or manufacturing issue, you'd have hundreds of thousands of engines having the same problem.

Carsy

Maybe a few ducks have to line up to create the conditions for failure.