Another 2010 ML350 Bluetec engine seized
08-29-2018, 06:35 AM
#501
MBWorld Fanatic!
Of an interesting note, the NA OM642 engines are tuned down about 20% compared to the Euro models.
08-29-2018, 11:20 AM
#502
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2012 e350 bluetec
It gets confusing following all the different views on this. Are we saying that one of the main causes of oil sludging is related to diesel fuel here in the US because they don't have similar problems of the same magnitude elsewhere? Since we're all supposed to be using MB approved oil I assume we can rule out differences in oil if that's the case.
If it truly is a diesel fuel standards issue here in the US then MB is still at fault for not designing an engine that can run on US standards. If they can't or won't then don't sell them here. Simple. Don't inflict their problems on the consumer for the sake of making money.
Admittedly I don't follow a lot of other manufacture diesel blogs but I own a Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel. Never had a problem. Why is it MB seems to have the bulk of this complaint?
All very confusing....
If it truly is a diesel fuel standards issue here in the US then MB is still at fault for not designing an engine that can run on US standards. If they can't or won't then don't sell them here. Simple. Don't inflict their problems on the consumer for the sake of making money.
Admittedly I don't follow a lot of other manufacture diesel blogs but I own a Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel. Never had a problem. Why is it MB seems to have the bulk of this complaint?
All very confusing....
08-29-2018, 11:28 AM
#503
Senior Member
I had my share of trouble with 2010 VW TDI and now two years later am glad I switched to 2008 BlueTec. There are very few choices in the US for those of us who want to drive Diesel passenger car.
By the way, our local Walmart sells Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W-30 for $22.68 for 5 qts.
It is listed as MB 229.51 spec oil.
At that price I will change it every 6000 miles no problem.
08-29-2018, 01:02 PM
#504
Super Moderator
Agreed. Diesel engineers have been in a constant battle with policy makers in NA to improve the standards to meet the needs of high pressure common rail systems. They’re stuck between the preverbal rock and a hard place.
Of an interesting note, the NA OM642 engines are tuned down about 20% compared to the Euro models.
08-29-2018, 01:04 PM
#505
MBWorld Fanatic!
It gets confusing following all the different views on this. Are we saying that one of the main causes of oil sludging is related to diesel fuel here in the US because they don't have similar problems of the same magnitude elsewhere? Since we're all supposed to be using MB approved oil I assume we can rule out differences in oil if that's the case.
If it truly is a diesel fuel standards issue here in the US then MB is still at fault for not designing an engine that can run on US standards. If they can't or won't then don't sell them here. Simple. Don't inflict their problems on the consumer for the sake of making money.
Admittedly I don't follow a lot of other manufacture diesel blogs but I own a Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel. Never had a problem. Why is it MB seems to have the bulk of this complaint?
All very confusing....
If it truly is a diesel fuel standards issue here in the US then MB is still at fault for not designing an engine that can run on US standards. If they can't or won't then don't sell them here. Simple. Don't inflict their problems on the consumer for the sake of making money.
Admittedly I don't follow a lot of other manufacture diesel blogs but I own a Dodge Ram with a Cummins diesel. Never had a problem. Why is it MB seems to have the bulk of this complaint?
All very confusing....
Most NA brands see the issues more on the fuel system side because the engines are built super heavy duty - lot’s of people experiencing grenaded high pressure pumps or replacing piezo-injectors after 80,000kms at $500 - $1,000 a pop. That being said, look at all the bullet-proofing kits out there for Duramax and Powerstrokes - this is also the result of fuel quality - the low cetane number causes higher peak pressure in the cylinders and stretches the cylinder head bolts.
In NA consumers have become accustomed to changing their oil every 5,000kms, so it doesn’t surprise me that they’re not seeing as many oil-related issues.
08-29-2018, 01:14 PM
#506
Super Moderator
And remember that forums concentrate complaints. Some people only post when they have something to ***** about.
08-29-2018, 01:45 PM
#507
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2012 e350 bluetec
I think MB owners probably just complain more. All brands are having problems though. I have a 24v Cummins, and that thing is bullet proof - however, it being a 5.9L has less power and torque than my 3.0L OM642. I think the injectors are probably worn also, being I doubt the previous owner ever ran fuel additives.
Most NA brands see the issues more on the fuel system side because the engines are built super heavy duty - lot’s of people experiencing grenaded high pressure pumps or replacing piezo-injectors after 80,000kms at $500 - $1,000 a pop. That being said, look at all the bullet-proofing kits out there for Duramax and Powerstrokes - this is also the result of fuel quality - the low cetane number causes higher peak pressure in the cylinders and stretches the cylinder head bolts.
In NA consumers have become accustomed to changing their oil every 5,000kms, so it doesn’t surprise me that they’re not seeing as many oil-related issues.
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krd2023 (08-29-2018)
08-29-2018, 04:10 PM
#508
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think we should also remember that the BlueTec seizing issue is an extremely rare occurrence. These engines are ubiquitous across multiple models and brands of vehicles; there’s millions of them out there, and what, there’s been 10 catastrophic engine siezures? 15 maybe? And only on ML’s and GL’s.
I do feel for those who have had this issue and weren’t treated well be Mercedes, but if we al boycotted a brand because of someone’s bad experience there would be no brands left to buy.
I bought my R320 expecting to disable the emissions equipment, use fuel additives, and use only the best oils because I knew the type of issues that were occurring with diesels in general and because I put a lot of kilometres on my vehicles. I ignore the marketing and service recommendations, and do it my way, not because I think I know more than MB engineers, but because I know that many of these recommendations are tainted by marketing techniques and consumer tolerance.
I do feel for those who have had this issue and weren’t treated well be Mercedes, but if we al boycotted a brand because of someone’s bad experience there would be no brands left to buy.
I bought my R320 expecting to disable the emissions equipment, use fuel additives, and use only the best oils because I knew the type of issues that were occurring with diesels in general and because I put a lot of kilometres on my vehicles. I ignore the marketing and service recommendations, and do it my way, not because I think I know more than MB engineers, but because I know that many of these recommendations are tainted by marketing techniques and consumer tolerance.
08-29-2018, 04:22 PM
#509
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2012 e350 bluetec
I agree with you 100% on the engine seizing problems. Considering the number of OM642 engines in use the number we've seen here is statistically insignificant. I'm much more concerned about the number of other problems we're hearing about like timing chain stretch, turbo oil seal failure, Adblue tank heater failures, early sensor and DPF failures, etc., etc.
I realize many new cars have issues because of the complexities of modern engines, transmissions, electronics, and nanny assist features. It just seems that problems with the OM642 are more in number, complexity, and certainly cost.
I think diesels will become a dying breed for passenger cars from any manufacturer. They just will not be worth the headaches.
I realize many new cars have issues because of the complexities of modern engines, transmissions, electronics, and nanny assist features. It just seems that problems with the OM642 are more in number, complexity, and certainly cost.
I think diesels will become a dying breed for passenger cars from any manufacturer. They just will not be worth the headaches.
08-29-2018, 05:17 PM
#510
MBWorld Fanatic!
As long as there is sufficient demand they will keep making them. And there is plenty of demand in Europe and the rest of the world. North Americans never really got on the diesel bandwagon, probably because fuel is quite a bit cheaper here.
Electric cars' viability is now starting to mature, so I can see them replacing internal combustion engines all together.
I don't see any changes in the near future for tractors and heavy equipment.
Electric cars' viability is now starting to mature, so I can see them replacing internal combustion engines all together.
I don't see any changes in the near future for tractors and heavy equipment.
08-29-2018, 09:39 PM
#511
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I think 40-60 mpg luxury diesel will always find some place in USA.
Look how many VW diesel owners, stripped from the ownership by legal issues moved to MB diesel stable.
The 642 engine suffers from compexity.
Would replacing oil cooler seals be 1 hr job - nobody would even talk about it.
The same with cleaning the intake flaps.
But look what happen to DI gasoline engines? Shall we talk about the sample and predict that gasoline engines will die from car market
Look how many VW diesel owners, stripped from the ownership by legal issues moved to MB diesel stable.
The 642 engine suffers from compexity.
Would replacing oil cooler seals be 1 hr job - nobody would even talk about it.
The same with cleaning the intake flaps.
But look what happen to DI gasoline engines? Shall we talk about the sample and predict that gasoline engines will die from car market
08-29-2018, 10:02 PM
#512
MBWorld Fanatic!
The same as all MB diesels: over engineered so that you have to remove a million components to perform simple tasks. *cough* air filters *cough*
08-29-2018, 11:20 PM
#513
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by marc hanna
The same as all MB diesels: over engineered so that you have to remove a million components to perform simple tasks. *cough* air filters *cough*
08-29-2018, 11:28 PM
#514
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
The older clips gave too big margin for wrong clamping I guess and that is why you have screws on newer filters.
08-30-2018, 07:05 AM
#515
MBWorld Fanatic!
On the R-class you have remove the cross-brace and the Y-pipe. Then four screws that hold the two air boxes. Then the best part: you have to manipulate the air boxes out of position - it’s like one of those metal wire puzzles where you have to try to get the to shapes unhooked from each other. The first time I did it, it took me a couple hours. Now that I know the trick, it takes a couple minutes. The fuel filter is quite easy in comparison.
09-02-2018, 04:57 PM
#516
New Diesel engine
Looks like a new diesel is coming.....if it works
OM645
https://www.autohaussouthbay.com/2017/06/26/how-mercedes-benz-diesel-engines-work/#respond
maybe MB arlready knew the old one is obslete.
will they reimburse owners of old engine??
OM645
https://www.autohaussouthbay.com/2017/06/26/how-mercedes-benz-diesel-engines-work/#respond
maybe MB arlready knew the old one is obslete.
will they reimburse owners of old engine??
09-03-2018, 01:04 PM
#517
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
The OM645 looks like twin brother to OM651, who runs on European roads for 10+ years with excellent reviews. Only bigger complain is single row timing chain that needs replacement at 400k km.
Last edited by kajtek1; 09-04-2018 at 11:01 AM.
09-04-2018, 04:31 AM
#518
Super Moderator
Benz on average is working on 16 new engines or propulsion forms across the range of vehicles they produce. Forever trying to improve emissions & economy. There is nothing wrong with the OM642 engine..
09-04-2018, 06:34 AM
#520
Super Moderator
With Higher bonnet/hood lines being demanded for safety reasons, Benz will be building more inline engines. They are cheaper to build than quadcam V configuration engines & inherently balanced which simplifies matters.
09-04-2018, 11:13 AM
#521
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09-04-2018, 01:55 PM
#522
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
The main reason for steel pistons is higher operating temperature, when less heat expansion is also a benefit. So less friction, better fuel burn - leading to better economy and less pollution.
Steel is hard to cast, meaning it is more expensive technology, but those engines are not cheap to start with, but since 651 can make 60 mpg, can we expect 80?
Steel is hard to cast, meaning it is more expensive technology, but those engines are not cheap to start with, but since 651 can make 60 mpg, can we expect 80?
09-04-2018, 11:25 PM
#523
Super Member
Back to seized om642s
No way on earth is that a 10k mile oil!!!!! Its takes a lot to build sludge, my take is; the stealer never changed oil regardless of what their receipt says! Second engine in the same car seized due to a busted oil pump, well that can happen to anyone, however 0w30 oil is less susceptible for an occurrence like that, oil being less viscous than 40 weight, easier to pump through the engine!
I've personally experimented with motul 5w40 xclean, no doubt an excellent oil, but this time I found m1 0w30 for 5.99 a qrt, and changed it to this, the engine definitely feels more spirited and easier to start, little rattlier than motul but thats okay.
I know it's crazy, but I always change the oil at 3500 miles, and now started adding additives, e.g. archoil ar9100, (see reviews on amazon) it has definitely made some improvement to the engine, next time I'm going to try amsoil signature series and report back.
this guys has ranked all oils, search diesel:
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Lastly try liqui moly diesel fuel additive at Napa the red bottle, I think it cleans the egr crap dumped into intake and make the truck temporarily very responsive,
I've personally experimented with motul 5w40 xclean, no doubt an excellent oil, but this time I found m1 0w30 for 5.99 a qrt, and changed it to this, the engine definitely feels more spirited and easier to start, little rattlier than motul but thats okay.
I know it's crazy, but I always change the oil at 3500 miles, and now started adding additives, e.g. archoil ar9100, (see reviews on amazon) it has definitely made some improvement to the engine, next time I'm going to try amsoil signature series and report back.
this guys has ranked all oils, search diesel:
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Lastly try liqui moly diesel fuel additive at Napa the red bottle, I think it cleans the egr crap dumped into intake and make the truck temporarily very responsive,
Last edited by 007_e350; 09-04-2018 at 11:27 PM.
09-05-2018, 08:56 AM
#524
Bluetec Engine seizure.
To 007e350
for what all the Extra work????
oil which sludges, create your own oil, add adfittives, higher cost per gallon for diesel, in 2020 new diesel requirements for Ships worldwide will supercharge diesel price, mpg always suffers with mileage, tremendous maintenance, ......why on earth would consumer put up with this....this costs time and money and there are so much competition...
new tech improving gasoline mpg....
i gave up on MB diesel and so will many others.
i lost 19000 dollars and others lost more....
for what all the Extra work????
oil which sludges, create your own oil, add adfittives, higher cost per gallon for diesel, in 2020 new diesel requirements for Ships worldwide will supercharge diesel price, mpg always suffers with mileage, tremendous maintenance, ......why on earth would consumer put up with this....this costs time and money and there are so much competition...
new tech improving gasoline mpg....
i gave up on MB diesel and so will many others.
i lost 19000 dollars and others lost more....
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krd2023 (09-05-2018)
09-06-2018, 02:41 PM
#525
Senior Member
There is no good engine for short trips. Especially in cold states, maybe electrics.
From what I learned in the past two years, diesel engines must run, long trips.
AdBlue hitter will go bad in cold climates 99.9% and 99% in all other cases ))
But unfortunately we learn things hard way at least I did.
From what I learned in the past two years, diesel engines must run, long trips.
AdBlue hitter will go bad in cold climates 99.9% and 99% in all other cases ))
But unfortunately we learn things hard way
at least I did.the 229.52 oil is claimed to have greater oxidation resistance (breaking down) But is thinner — I already have a slow external oil leak and have oil on the intake of the turbo with 5w40 229.51 oil. Thin 0w30 229.52 oil should leak more and has a Lower HTHS value.
btw: when repacing the bottom oil pan mechanic said no sludge noted.
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krd2023 (09-06-2018)
