Another 2010 ML350 Bluetec engine seized
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 6
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2013 ML 350 Bluetec
Diabolis,
The date from the spreadsheet you list "2020-07-29 MB BEVO 223_3-NEU.xlsx". My 2013 owners manual specifies the use 229.51 which was current at the time. Bio diesel was never used in my ML.
Moving forward, I have never been comfortable with the oil filter on the om642, I have started to look for something that will do a better job at filtration.
The date from the spreadsheet you list "2020-07-29 MB BEVO 223_3-NEU.xlsx". My 2013 owners manual specifies the use 229.51 which was current at the time. Bio diesel was never used in my ML.
Moving forward, I have never been comfortable with the oil filter on the om642, I have started to look for something that will do a better job at filtration.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,745
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From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
Diabolis,
The date from the spreadsheet you list "2020-07-29 MB BEVO 223_3-NEU.xlsx". My 2013 owners manual specifies the use 229.51 which was current at the time. Bio diesel was never used in my ML.
Moving forward, I have never been comfortable with the oil filter on the om642, I have started to look for something that will do a better job at filtration.
The date from the spreadsheet you list "2020-07-29 MB BEVO 223_3-NEU.xlsx". My 2013 owners manual specifies the use 229.51 which was current at the time. Bio diesel was never used in my ML.
Moving forward, I have never been comfortable with the oil filter on the om642, I have started to look for something that will do a better job at filtration.
Besides, for daily driver cars, Amsoil is about as bad as oils get. I am sorry that you drank the marketing Kool-Aid, but I would not touch Amsoil even if it was given to me for free. My mechanics absolutely love it - because of all the engines that come in for rebuilds after using it.
The OEM oil filter is about as good as oil filters get. I am afraid you are barking at the wrong tree here.
Mercedes has a number of issues with various cars and engines, but seized OM642 motors that have been properly run and maintained is NOT one of them. A spun crank bearing means you had inadequate lubrication. Period.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 6
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2013 ML 350 Bluetec
And as I already pointed out, the MB 229.51 spec was depreciated for use in our engines some 7 years ago because of the mandated biodiesel content. If you are anywhere in North America you most certainly are using at least B5, and in the USA, more often than not considerably more up to B20. The biodisesel content in the fuel changed, and as a result the oil spec changed. Furthermore, Scamsoil - er, Amsoil - has been known to form solid deposits in oil passages.
Besides, for daily driver cars, Amsoil is about as bad as oils get. I am sorry that you drank the marketing Kool-Aid, but I would not touch Amsoil even if it was given to me for free. My mechanics absolutely love it - because of all the engines that come in for rebuilds after using it.
The OEM oil filter is about as good as oil filters get. I am afraid you are barking at the wrong tree here.
Mercedes has a number of issues with various cars and engines, but seized OM642 motors that have been properly run and maintained is NOT one of them. A spun crank bearing means you had inadequate lubrication. Period.
Besides, for daily driver cars, Amsoil is about as bad as oils get. I am sorry that you drank the marketing Kool-Aid, but I would not touch Amsoil even if it was given to me for free. My mechanics absolutely love it - because of all the engines that come in for rebuilds after using it.
The OEM oil filter is about as good as oil filters get. I am afraid you are barking at the wrong tree here.
Mercedes has a number of issues with various cars and engines, but seized OM642 motors that have been properly run and maintained is NOT one of them. A spun crank bearing means you had inadequate lubrication. Period.
I thought to put up this post in the hope there were people who would offer information towards solutions.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 811
From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
So an engine that was run exclusively on Amzoil for 137 k miles without any lubrication or consumption issues and fails immediately after having the recall done is a problem with the oil? I am not sure what issues you have run into with amzoil, but this is the first engine that I have ever had seize. All my previous vehicles had over 200 k miles on them with zero oil lubrication or consumption issues all running Amzoil.
I thought to put up this post in the hope there were people who would offer information towards solutions.
I thought to put up this post in the hope there were people who would offer information towards solutions.
As for a solution to your seized engine issue, you may need anything from a rebuild to a new engine - as well as better oil and more frequent oil changes going forward.
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Posts: 9,224
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
We can discuss the role the Amsoil played in the engine failure, but the only solid answer would come from oil test. Can you still do it?
This thread lacks specifics, but general conclusion is that OM642 engines in the years where they were fitted with DEF system become extremely sensitive to oil quality.
I drove my pre-DEF OM642 on B20 few times with no troubles and have contact with new owner. The car exceeded 200k miles.
But reading this thread some time ago, I don't put in my diesels anything below 229.52
This thread lacks specifics, but general conclusion is that OM642 engines in the years where they were fitted with DEF system become extremely sensitive to oil quality.
I drove my pre-DEF OM642 on B20 few times with no troubles and have contact with new owner. The car exceeded 200k miles.
But reading this thread some time ago, I don't put in my diesels anything below 229.52
Last edited by kajtek1; Jul 1, 2021 at 05:31 PM.
Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 126
Likes: 28
E250 GLE300d
My 2013 ML350 Bluetec had 137k miles on it when I drove 200+ miles to the dealer to have the recall done. The engine seized after the recall was done while the technician was test driving it. On tear down, the no 1 main bearing seized onto the crank. I have used Amzoil since buying the vehicle new, there was zero sludge. MB offered $1500 on a certified or $3000 on new. I am still wondering why it seized.
What does $1500 certified or $3000 new mean? For a new engine? If so, that's a great deal.
/
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2021
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2013 ML 350 Bluetec
The "offer" was a price reduction on a certified used or new MB ( I would have been very happy to get that kind of pricing on a rebuilt or new engine).
I was there as the pan was removed from my ML, but the oil had already been drained by the time I made to the shop. The first question I asked was if an oil sample had been collected, the technician hadn't thought to collect one.
I was there as the pan was removed from my ML, but the oil had already been drained by the time I made to the shop. The first question I asked was if an oil sample had been collected, the technician hadn't thought to collect one.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 493
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84 300d 2009 e320 bluetec (retired)/, now 2012 E350 4-matic blueefficiency automatic
I have observed mbz dealers of not using approved oil and transmission fluids. The sucking oil change method does not assess a visual and the amount of oil removed and dealers have a program just to charge a standard amount of fluids instead of a actual amount used.
I have even returned my Toyota to the dealer when noticing they didn’t change the ATF as billed - Fremont. They didn’t change the plugs but I didn’t noticed at the time.
I check the level and do a paper chromatography for the diesel. Still won’t know if the proper oil was used.
I ask for some extra and found that a So. Cal Toyota dealer was charging for Toyota pink ATF but using local brand antifreeze.
Trust but verify.
Dave
I have even returned my Toyota to the dealer when noticing they didn’t change the ATF as billed - Fremont. They didn’t change the plugs but I didn’t noticed at the time.
I check the level and do a paper chromatography for the diesel. Still won’t know if the proper oil was used.
I ask for some extra and found that a So. Cal Toyota dealer was charging for Toyota pink ATF but using local brand antifreeze.
Trust but verify.
Dave
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 38
Likes: 5
From: uk
Jeep 3.0crd
Hi.
This has been a really fascinating thread and has passed two hours for me.
May i ask the posters that are oil experts a few questions please?
My 2008 OM642 has NO DPF. This is the way it was supplied by the manufacture. There has been no DPF delete at a later date.
I have read here that 229.51/52 was designed to maintain an emissions system at the expense of Engine protection.
My question is thus. What is the premium oil type and grade for use in an OM642 with no DFP?
Should i stick with the C3 oils that are MB229.51/2?.........Maybe go to the MB229.5? It has higher saps but seemingly better additive package.............Maybe an E9? This is a heavy Diesel engine oil made for trucks.
I would genuinely love to hear opinions on my above question pleas.
This has been a really fascinating thread and has passed two hours for me.
May i ask the posters that are oil experts a few questions please?
My 2008 OM642 has NO DPF. This is the way it was supplied by the manufacture. There has been no DPF delete at a later date.
I have read here that 229.51/52 was designed to maintain an emissions system at the expense of Engine protection.
My question is thus. What is the premium oil type and grade for use in an OM642 with no DFP?
Should i stick with the C3 oils that are MB229.51/2?.........Maybe go to the MB229.5? It has higher saps but seemingly better additive package.............Maybe an E9? This is a heavy Diesel engine oil made for trucks.
I would genuinely love to hear opinions on my above question pleas.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,224
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I read the topic over the years and seems all seized engines are DEF-equipped OM642.
I drove pre DEF OM642,but DPF equipped and sold it with 180k miles. I used older grades oils before this thread come ot life and the engine had no problems.
But frankly, with 229.52 Motul oil selling for $37/ 5 liter jug, why not give it the best?
Spending 70 bucks a year for best oil is nothing comparing to the money you save while driving diesel.
When I had lawnmower in California, it was getting MB-grade oils as well. Just to simplify garage stock.
I drove pre DEF OM642,but DPF equipped and sold it with 180k miles. I used older grades oils before this thread come ot life and the engine had no problems.
But frankly, with 229.52 Motul oil selling for $37/ 5 liter jug, why not give it the best?
Spending 70 bucks a year for best oil is nothing comparing to the money you save while driving diesel.
When I had lawnmower in California, it was getting MB-grade oils as well. Just to simplify garage stock.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 811
From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
Hi.
This has been a really fascinating thread and has passed two hours for me.
May i ask the posters that are oil experts a few questions please?
My 2008 OM642 has NO DPF. This is the way it was supplied by the manufacture. There has been no DPF delete at a later date.
I have read here that 229.51/52 was designed to maintain an emissions system at the expense of Engine protection.
My question is thus. What is the premium oil type and grade for use in an OM642 with no DFP?
Should i stick with the C3 oils that are MB229.51/2?.........Maybe go to the MB229.5? It has higher saps but seemingly better additive package.............Maybe an E9? This is a heavy Diesel engine oil made for trucks.
I would genuinely love to hear opinions on my above question pleas.
This has been a really fascinating thread and has passed two hours for me.
May i ask the posters that are oil experts a few questions please?
My 2008 OM642 has NO DPF. This is the way it was supplied by the manufacture. There has been no DPF delete at a later date.
I have read here that 229.51/52 was designed to maintain an emissions system at the expense of Engine protection.
My question is thus. What is the premium oil type and grade for use in an OM642 with no DFP?
Should i stick with the C3 oils that are MB229.51/2?.........Maybe go to the MB229.5? It has higher saps but seemingly better additive package.............Maybe an E9? This is a heavy Diesel engine oil made for trucks.
I would genuinely love to hear opinions on my above question pleas.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 811
From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
I have observed mbz dealers of not using approved oil and transmission fluids. The sucking oil change method does not assess a visual and the amount of oil removed and dealers have a program just to charge a standard amount of fluids instead of a actual amount used.
I have even returned my Toyota to the dealer when noticing they didn’t change the ATF as billed - Fremont. They didn’t change the plugs but I didn’t noticed at the time.
I check the level and do a paper chromatography for the diesel. Still won’t know if the proper oil was used.
I ask for some extra and found that a So. Cal Toyota dealer was charging for Toyota pink ATF but using local brand antifreeze.
Trust but verify.
Dave
I have even returned my Toyota to the dealer when noticing they didn’t change the ATF as billed - Fremont. They didn’t change the plugs but I didn’t noticed at the time.
I check the level and do a paper chromatography for the diesel. Still won’t know if the proper oil was used.
I ask for some extra and found that a So. Cal Toyota dealer was charging for Toyota pink ATF but using local brand antifreeze.
Trust but verify.
Dave
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,224
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I would hesitate to use 0 grade oil since I drive in 120F environment a lot.
Sucking per my experience removes more oil than pulling the plug.
That assuming you put a plank under opposite wheel.
MB put the plug horizontally, what leaves lot of oil on flat oil pan. The tube is placed in the corner, so with a plank and some gargling you can drain the pan, leaving only some oil film on the bottom.
I remember W123 had oil pan bell-shaped, but that is history.
Sucking per my experience removes more oil than pulling the plug.
That assuming you put a plank under opposite wheel.
MB put the plug horizontally, what leaves lot of oil on flat oil pan. The tube is placed in the corner, so with a plank and some gargling you can drain the pan, leaving only some oil film on the bottom.
I remember W123 had oil pan bell-shaped, but that is history.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 882
Likes: 159
S204 C250 CDI Sport
The biggest concern with the OM642 is OIL DILUTION due to high biodiesel content at the pumps (that ends up in the sump in short order, especially during during DPF regen cycles). If you have no more than 5% biodiesel content (B5) and no DPF, my first choice would be a good HDEO oil like a Shell Rotella T6. Excellent protection and cheap to boot.
Naaa , it was tested by a mechanical engineer for high temperature film strength and came 218th out of 248 oils tested .
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,224
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Basically all modern motor oils do have good film strength.
What makes win or loose on SCR equipped vehicles is the chemical balance they can keep.
Even the best film strength will not help when oil turns into pudding.
What makes win or loose on SCR equipped vehicles is the chemical balance they can keep.
Even the best film strength will not help when oil turns into pudding.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,745
Likes: 811
From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 493
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84 300d 2009 e320 bluetec (retired)/, now 2012 E350 4-matic blueefficiency automatic
The 0-30 oil has a thicker viscosity at 150C than 10-30. The slope of the viscosity is less steep than 10-30 and 5-30, so the 0-30 is thicker at 150C (HTHS pPa.s piston area) and thinner upon start up.
As for the premium oils, they need to be rated MB 229.51 or 229.52 rated for Mercedes Spec for the 30 oils are on the thicker side of the 30 range (13.0 mm^2/s at 100C, almost a thin 40 weight) and 40 spec is on the lower side of the 40 range (almost a thick 30 weight). So the HD 15-40 oil will be too thick at the start and too thick when hot at 100C (at least in the oil cooler).
Pennzoil Eur L 5W-30 229.51 12.5 at 100C HTHS ? VI >170 (as low as $13 for 5 qt with the rebate)
DELO 400 xsp full synthetic 5W-30 228.51 and 228.31 oil 12.1 mm^2/s 12.1 at 100C and HTHS 3.5 mPa.s (too high ash for 229.51?)
DELO 400 xsp 5W-40 15.4 at 100C, 4.2 HTHS
Delo® 400 SDE SAE 15W-40 14.6 4.2
Why pay $60 per gallon for non-approved oil when approved oil is under $20 gallon without coupon?
As for the premium oils, they need to be rated MB 229.51 or 229.52 rated for Mercedes Spec for the 30 oils are on the thicker side of the 30 range (13.0 mm^2/s at 100C, almost a thin 40 weight) and 40 spec is on the lower side of the 40 range (almost a thick 30 weight). So the HD 15-40 oil will be too thick at the start and too thick when hot at 100C (at least in the oil cooler).
Pennzoil Eur L 5W-30 229.51 12.5 at 100C HTHS ? VI >170 (as low as $13 for 5 qt with the rebate)
DELO 400 xsp full synthetic 5W-30 228.51 and 228.31 oil 12.1 mm^2/s 12.1 at 100C and HTHS 3.5 mPa.s (too high ash for 229.51?)
DELO 400 xsp 5W-40 15.4 at 100C, 4.2 HTHS
Delo® 400 SDE SAE 15W-40 14.6 4.2
Why pay $60 per gallon for non-approved oil when approved oil is under $20 gallon without coupon?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 493
Likes: 14
84 300d 2009 e320 bluetec (retired)/, now 2012 E350 4-matic blueefficiency automatic
There's way too much incoherent stuff in here, but as far as sucking up the old oil out vs. draining goes, the difference between the two methods is about 50mL. Sucking out the used oil thorough the dipstick tube removes only 50mL less than fully warming up the engine first and then letting the sump completely drain for 15 minutes, which is completely insignificant. We've repeatedly measured this.
Easier to cut a hole in the plastic under cover instead of removing 2 of them.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 493
Likes: 14
84 300d 2009 e320 bluetec (retired)/, now 2012 E350 4-matic blueefficiency automatic
I would hesitate to use 0 grade oil since I drive in 120F environment a lot.
Sucking per my experience removes more oil than pulling the plug.
That assuming you put a plank under opposite wheel.
MB put the plug horizontally, what leaves lot of oil on flat oil pan. The tube is placed in the corner, so with a plank and some gargling you can drain the pan, leaving only some oil film on the bottom.
I remember W123 had oil pan bell-shaped, but that is history.
Sucking per my experience removes more oil than pulling the plug.
That assuming you put a plank under opposite wheel.
MB put the plug horizontally, what leaves lot of oil on flat oil pan. The tube is placed in the corner, so with a plank and some gargling you can drain the pan, leaving only some oil film on the bottom.
I remember W123 had oil pan bell-shaped, but that is history.
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 22
Likes: 4
2012 GL350 Blue Tec
One more sad story to add ...
Bought 2012 GL350 with ~82k miles in Jan 2021, thought it was a good deal, knowing I'd replace a couple air struts and tires. It showed regular interval services at Shumacher MB dealership in Scottsdale on carfax. , But then ...
1. engine ran a little rough one evening in April, found the serpentine belt had shredded and almost totally disintegrated, I replaced it
2. engine was sluggish after ... took in for oil change (was changed) and learned the turbo had failed (2 opinions)
3. turbo was replaced, shop noted that there was 'a lot of sludge' even though the oil change was fresh ... new turbo failed in a week
4. turbo was replaced under warranty, oil change regimen with treatment to deal with sludge at next 500 miles, another at 500 miles, then another at 1,000 miles (so 3 additional changes AFTER the 3 changes within 500 miles of the first turbo failure)
5. cooling fan quit, bearing in fan motor failed, I replaced (DIY)
6. major oil leak, failed oil cooler gasket
7. after replacing oil cooler gasket, shop was roadtesting and engine seized
All this within the span of about 8,000 miles.
Now I'm waiting to hear what the options are going forward.
Bought 2012 GL350 with ~82k miles in Jan 2021, thought it was a good deal, knowing I'd replace a couple air struts and tires. It showed regular interval services at Shumacher MB dealership in Scottsdale on carfax. , But then ...
1. engine ran a little rough one evening in April, found the serpentine belt had shredded and almost totally disintegrated, I replaced it
2. engine was sluggish after ... took in for oil change (was changed) and learned the turbo had failed (2 opinions)
3. turbo was replaced, shop noted that there was 'a lot of sludge' even though the oil change was fresh ... new turbo failed in a week
4. turbo was replaced under warranty, oil change regimen with treatment to deal with sludge at next 500 miles, another at 500 miles, then another at 1,000 miles (so 3 additional changes AFTER the 3 changes within 500 miles of the first turbo failure)
5. cooling fan quit, bearing in fan motor failed, I replaced (DIY)
6. major oil leak, failed oil cooler gasket
7. after replacing oil cooler gasket, shop was roadtesting and engine seized
All this within the span of about 8,000 miles.
Now I'm waiting to hear what the options are going forward.
