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mb229.51 in Ontario Canada

 
Old 06-07-2018, 12:25 PM
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mb229.51 in Ontario Canada

Anybody in Barrie ontario looking for mb229.51 oil?
I usually order my oil from Toronto ever since Mobil1 stopped making 5w40. On a whim I called Oil changers on Hart dr and they actually have our spec oil (Total Quartz Ineo mc3 5W40) So they gave me a quote for a GL.
I showed up 2 weeks later to get it done and the manager said they won't touch the ML/GL/R because the oil change takes too long. I looked around at all the employees standing around shooting the breeze and the empty bays in the shop and said thank you very much and left (for good!)
I went to partsource for some polish that was on sale and asked them if they carried 229.51 spec oil. The guy did point me to "Bay auto" on Anne st. Sure enough they carry Total quartz ineo in 5w40. Good price too. $8.36/quart.
Hope it helps boys
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DansGL View Post
Anybody in Barrie ontario looking for mb229.51 oil?
I usually order my oil from Toronto ever since Mobil1 stopped making 5w40. On a whim I called Oil changers on Hart dr and they actually have our spec oil (Total Quartz Ineo mc3 5W40) So they gave me a quote for a GL.
I showed up 2 weeks later to get it done and the manager said they won't touch the ML/GL/R because the oil change takes too long. I looked around at all the employees standing around shooting the breeze and the empty bays in the shop and said thank you very much and left (for good!)
I went to partsource for some polish that was on sale and asked them if they carried 229.51 spec oil. The guy did point me to "Bay auto" on Anne st. Sure enough they carry Total quartz ineo in 5w40. Good price too. $8.36/quart.
Hope it helps boys
if you will be using 229.51 or 229.52 oil then you are out of luck with Total. they do not have 5W-40 oil certified to those specs (unless i am looking some 229.51/229.52 sheet that is been hacked and reedited), beside 229.52 does not include any 5W-40 oils yet. not many oils in 0/5W-40 range in north America are low ash oils. try MOTUL 8100 X-clean SAE 5W-40, you can get it from Amazon for 40 bucks for 5 liter jug, or Pento High Rerformance II in 5W-40 range, or rottela t6 (it is ACEA E9 rated and covers all diesel specs up to Euro VI)
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:56 AM
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isstay,

I do not know all that much about piston engine oil but the Ineo MC3 says that it meets or exceeds a bunch of specs including mb229.51 and it does come in 5W40. So unless you have some insider info that proves they are false advertising, I have to assume that the specs on the jug are factual.
Also, I can not shop amazon without paying MUCH more than you. And then there is the shipping! I am in Canada and the cost goes up dramatically for anything from amazon.
I love Rottella T6 and have used it in my VW's Are you saying that this oil meets mb229.51. The spec sheet does not say that.

Thanks
Dan
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DansGL View Post
isstay,

I do not know all that much about piston engine oil but the Ineo MC3 says that it meets or exceeds a bunch of specs including mb229.51 and it does come in 5W40. So unless you have some insider info that proves they are false advertising, I have to assume that the specs on the jug are factual.
Also, I can not shop amazon without paying MUCH more than you. And then there is the shipping! I am in Canada and the cost goes up dramatically for anything from amazon.
I love Rottella T6 and have used it in my VW's Are you saying that this oil meets mb229.51. The spec sheet does not say that.

Thanks
Dan
only info i have is the info from the official MB operating fluids extranet site. T6 does not have 229.51 approval, but Chrysler recently approved it for their V6 diesel (pretty much same engine like OM642, if not better in some aspects, with all emission crap on it) and i have been using it for over 20000 miles w/o issues. and if you use it in diesel VW's you know that it will hold well in MB diesel because those PD units are even more picky.
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Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.pdf (600.5 KB, 43 views)
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:29 AM
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If you look at the official MB Operating Fluid Specification website you'll see that Total has no 5w40 oil that meets either 229.51 or 229.52. They have some oils that meet those specs in 0w30 or 5w30 depending on which of the two oil specs you're looking at.

Here's the 229.51 MB fluid link for you to review.
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:11 PM
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mbdiesel,
Interesting. I reviewed the link. It does not list this oil. However Total clearly states it has mb229.51 approval.
http://catalog.lubricants.total.com/...INEO-MC3-5W-40
I do hope that MB just hasn't updated their list. Not sure what to make of this discrepancy. Anybody out there know?

isstay,
I am not concerned with how T6 would lube my engine. I am pretty familiar with the oil. I am sure it would be spectacular. I am more concerned with the emissions equipment with respect to using a non 229.51 oil.

Thanks
Dan
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:24 PM
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That is interesting.The MB link I provided was last updated by MB on 5/29/18 so it looks to be current.

The Total approvals also clearly shows 229.51 approved.

If it's important maybe try calling MB Customer Service for an explanation. I doubt however the phone reps will have an answer.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:21 PM
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Which Chrysler specific models that have OM642 have been approved for T6 oil?
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GoodByeHonda View Post

Which Chrysler specific models that have OM642 have been approved for T6 oil?
Originally Posted by DansGL View Post

isstay,
I am not concerned with how T6 would lube my engine. I am pretty familiar with the oil. I am sure it would be spectacular. I am more concerned with the emissions equipment with respect to using a non 229.51 oil.

Thanks
Dan
No OM642 in any current Chrysler vehicles. GC has V6 3.0 VM Motori diesel, basically same engine like OM642 minus piezo injectors (still 29000 PSI) and balancing shaft, and the turbo is behind the engine instead into the V. Similar power and torque ratings, AdBlue and DPF.

T6 has 1.0% ash versus <0.8 in 229.51 oils as you can see from the PDF. If anyone thinks that this will cause DPF poisoning and damage think about this: does Chrysler wants to replace all damaged DPFs because this is what they recommend and what they put in all diesel engines brought in for oil change. Changing your own oil is one think and you can be blamed for the damage caused by your actions, but installed by the service it is completely different story and they have to deal with the consequences and pick up the tab. Only two other oil where approved for use in this engine and they both are part of 229.51 sheet, but they are 5W-30 oils and after engine damage due to the high temperature break down (and replacement by Chrysler under warranty) they changed the specs to 5W-40 and recommended T6.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:14 PM
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This forum has so many certain and absolute opinions about the best oil for diesel. There ARE lots of great lubricating oils. But not many are low enough ash to keep the OM642 DPF happy. Maybe there is a slight trade off between the low ash and the best lubricating. Pick your poison. But don't pick one that is not 229.51 approved.
Personally, because I always run at ambient temps in the 70s-90s, I use a 20W50 SynPower by Valvoline. It used to have 229.51 approved. Lately it isn't. I suspect because MB no longer approves anything thicker than 5W40. And the 229.52 doesn't approve anything thicker than 5W30. What gives with that?
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:03 PM
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Canadian Tire has 5 L of 229.51 spec engine oil on sale now for under $30 Canadian I'm not sure if anyone of you are still running .51 spec oil with full emissions still installed but I'm wondering why not and try this. I believe this is Castrol oil.

Last edited by GoodByeHonda; 04-14-2019 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:13 PM
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229.51 is a diesel engine specification.
From oilspecifications.org:
MB 229.51 - Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.

The MSDS on this oil shows it's made by Citgo and is part of the "SUPERGARD" line. This formulation is NOT recommended for diesel applications. I even says at the top of the jug label "for gasoline engines" . Something doesn't make sense. Shows what can happen when the marketing ***** take over, and the need for profit "Trumps" truth.... Even if this stuff is the Citgo "CITGARD Syndurance *Plus" oil designed for diesel applications, it only meets the 228.31 spec according to their msds. Cdn Tire is relying on Citgo's MSDS,. Citgo's claims of 229.51 is to say the least, wanting - if not an outright lie. How can a gasoline only engine oil be approved for a turbo diesel?????

Not worth risking worn big end bearings and a clogged DPF imo.

Last edited by Harbro; 04-15-2019 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:08 PM
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Fack me dead, good catch! I would have never gone the distance and verified the claim of 229.51 spec.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:00 PM
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OK, I just got off the phone with "Jim", a Citgo tech rep who called me back after I left a msg. He told me a couple of things. First, the Cdn Tire Formula 1 European Formula is likely the same as their Citgo Superguard Euro formula but can't say they are "exact" - but if the 229.51 is on the label, it is a fully compliant diesel oil. The confusion about the Supergard oils only being for gasoline is because Citgo differentiates between Supergard (which is for gas engines) and "Supergard European" which is for diesel engines. Ya think they could have come up with less confusing names?

The confusion obviously extends to C.Tire as they put "for gasoline engines" right on the label, probably done by some copywriter referring to the same document I read. He was clear that this was purely a labeling mistake exacerbated by Citgo's use of Superguard for both gas and diesel oils. He thinks this will be soon rectified once they run out of current stock (maybe that's why it's such a screaming deal right now). He insisted this oil is a fully 229.51 compliant oil designed for diesel engines. Now I'm thinking I'll will go ahead and try it based on what I've been told. Of course, you'll have to make your own decision!

Last edited by Harbro; 04-15-2019 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:26 PM
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I just bought a couple 5 litre jugs of the motul 8100 x-cess 5W40 from eBay for my 08 e320 om642.The seller lives in Toronto.Seems to be one of the best oils out there and also 229.5 approved.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:32 PM
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Is "suitable,where MB229.15 specs are required" the same as "approved MB229.15"?

This may be the data sheet of that oil:
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/C10223.pdf
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:33 PM
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Essentially, specification 229.51 is dead ... replaced by 229.52.

By definition, 229.52 will be 5W-30. It's an FA-4 product

To explain, the following is extracted from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

The current diesel engine service categories are API CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, and FA-4. The previous service categories such as API CC or CD are obsolete. API solved problems with API CI-4 by creating a separate API CI-4 PLUS category that contains some additional requirements – this marking is located in the lower portion of the API Service Symbol "Donut".

API CK-4 and FA-4 have been introduced for 2017 model American engines.[13] API CK-4 is backward compatible that means API CK-4 oils are assumed to provide superior performance to oils made to previous categories and could be used without problems in all previous model engines (but see Ford below).

API FA-4 oils are different (that is why API decided to start a new group in addition to API Sx and API Cx). API FA-4 oils are formulated for enhanced fuel economy (presented as reduced greenhouse gas emission). To achieve that, they are SAE xW-30 oils blended to a high temperature high shear viscosity from 2.9 cP to 3.2 cP. They are not suitable for all engines thus their use depends on the decision of each engine manufacturer. They cannot be used with diesel fuel containing more than 15 ppm sulfur.

Cummins reacted to the introduction of API CK-4 and API FA-4 by issuing its CES 20086 list of API CK-4 registered oils[14] and CES 20087 list of API FA-4 registered oils.[15] Valvoline oils are preferred.

Ford does not recommend API CK-4 or FA-4 oils in its diesel engines.
Your Mercedes dealer only stocks 229.52
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