Engine shuts down in 4 seconds
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Engine shuts down in 4 seconds
HELP! Dealing with some MB CDI weirdness.
I just replaced the Airmatic compressor, but I don't think that is directly related, however maybe something I did brought this on.
The engine stars and idles normally but shuts off in about 4 seconds (Seems that it is exactly the same time each try).
It does not stumble and die lie a fuel pump, air in fuel, or bad fuel issue, and restarts just by cycling the key.
It starts fine, not slow like a bad battery, and I have charged the battery between times working on it, with no difference from freshly charged to after several starts (10+)
When it shuts down I get an ABS error, but it is not storing a code. I think that is an artifact of the shutdown and not a part of the problem. I found no reference to an ABS/ESP issue being related to or causing engine shutdown.
I have checked all the fuses, as my assumption is the ECU or other critical circuit is powered through a different path during start and after start (during normal run).
It seems to be all powered up when cranking and for first few seconds then when iyt switches to normal run, something critical loses power.
Anyone ever have any similar problem??
Does anyone have a good diagram showing electrical power flow to the engine and modules?
I just replaced the Airmatic compressor, but I don't think that is directly related, however maybe something I did brought this on.
The engine stars and idles normally but shuts off in about 4 seconds (Seems that it is exactly the same time each try).
It does not stumble and die lie a fuel pump, air in fuel, or bad fuel issue, and restarts just by cycling the key.
It starts fine, not slow like a bad battery, and I have charged the battery between times working on it, with no difference from freshly charged to after several starts (10+)
When it shuts down I get an ABS error, but it is not storing a code. I think that is an artifact of the shutdown and not a part of the problem. I found no reference to an ABS/ESP issue being related to or causing engine shutdown.
I have checked all the fuses, as my assumption is the ECU or other critical circuit is powered through a different path during start and after start (during normal run).
It seems to be all powered up when cranking and for first few seconds then when iyt switches to normal run, something critical loses power.
Anyone ever have any similar problem??
Does anyone have a good diagram showing electrical power flow to the engine and modules?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,225
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
What codes did you find?
Such symptoms are common for lack driver recognition, but those cars are so complex, that you can have 100 different reasons.
Scanner will tell you in few seconds.
Such symptoms are common for lack driver recognition, but those cars are so complex, that you can have 100 different reasons.
Scanner will tell you in few seconds.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Tried both keys, and both keyless and key starting.
Results are exactly the same.
If it was an immobilizer shutdown, isn't there a dash light to indicate that?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,225
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Older MB had blinking light on center console, who would change the blinks depends on the status. I could never memorize the changes.
Is your scanner showing you driver authorization page?
I have HT200. who does it for my Sprinter.
Sprinter has different license than MB sedans, so I did not buy it for sedans as I still have iCarsoft MBII who does read those things as well, although in much slower rate.
I also read good reviews about Thinkdiag
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
The technology change from MY to MY.
Older MB had blinking light on center console, who would change the blinks depends on the status. I could never memorize the changes.
Is your scanner showing you driver authorization page?
I have HT200. who does it for my Sprinter.
Sprinter has different license than MB sedans, so I did not buy it for sedans as I still have iCarsoft MBII who does read those things as well, although in much slower rate.
I also read good reviews about Thinkdiag
Older MB had blinking light on center console, who would change the blinks depends on the status. I could never memorize the changes.
Is your scanner showing you driver authorization page?
I have HT200. who does it for my Sprinter.
Sprinter has different license than MB sedans, so I did not buy it for sedans as I still have iCarsoft MBII who does read those things as well, although in much slower rate.
I also read good reviews about Thinkdiag
if it saves a tow to the dealer, . . .
All the fuses are good, checking out the relays next.
That is about as far as I can go with without more help..
some of the main relays have a Dopod inside to provide an isolated second output.
Maybe one poped?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,225
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
In USA you might be qualified for free MB towing, but that still would leave you with min 1 hr troubleshooting, what is $180 at my location.
Well above good scanner price.
Good luck
Well above good scanner price.
Good luck
Junior Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 50
Likes: 21
From: Florida
GL350, Audi A3 TDI, VW Beetle TDI
A question to Kajtek1: I have no codes or issues at present. I do have ScanGuage II to monitor DPF regenerations--it does have some generic code reading capability. I guess I need to be better prepared for issues. Since you have and use both HT200 and iCarsoft, do you recommend one versus the other? Mike
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Scanners do deserve their own section and such exist on Sprinter forum. https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...hp?forums/205/
To start your selection, some scanners require license purchase and require internet connection, what makes them harder to use. HT200 has very nice troubleshooting page, who will pinpoint the problem in just few seconds.
When I hate iCarsoft for being very slow and hard to navigate, it will work with no additional hassle.
I think at this time Thinkdiag has the best recommendations for serious troubleshooting.
I still recommend ScanGauge for constant monitoring. Even it is just code reader and will not give the description, I does have "force clear" what can succeed where other scanners fail.
Than I restarted my Torque Pro after some time and looks like new upgrades will monitor DPF.
I remember paying 10 bucks for OBD plug and $5 for TorquePro app, so that would be the cheapest start.
To start your selection, some scanners require license purchase and require internet connection, what makes them harder to use. HT200 has very nice troubleshooting page, who will pinpoint the problem in just few seconds.
When I hate iCarsoft for being very slow and hard to navigate, it will work with no additional hassle.
I think at this time Thinkdiag has the best recommendations for serious troubleshooting.
I still recommend ScanGauge for constant monitoring. Even it is just code reader and will not give the description, I does have "force clear" what can succeed where other scanners fail.
Than I restarted my Torque Pro after some time and looks like new upgrades will monitor DPF.
I remember paying 10 bucks for OBD plug and $5 for TorquePro app, so that would be the cheapest start.
Last edited by kajtek1; May 9, 2022 at 01:02 PM.
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Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Just ordered ThinkDiag.
I have the Bosch 1350 which, although not a programmer, has never failed to provide reliable reading and resetting of codes on MB, VAG, and other cars.
I have the Bosch 1350 which, although not a programmer, has never failed to provide reliable reading and resetting of codes on MB, VAG, and other cars.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,225
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Post review of new scanner when you get some experience with it?
There is main difference between generic scanners and brand-oriented scanners.
On today's vehicle reading and erasing codes is simply not enough when you have system with 20 different sensors.
HT200 is having troubleshooting pages, who show all sensor for the system and bad values are shown in red. Even 3rd grader can troubleshoot Mercedes with such gizmo.
My software skills are probably on the level of 3-graders today?
My youngest son was starting the computer, finding saved game, opening it to continue and than saving for shut down being 5.
2 years later he learned how to read.
There is main difference between generic scanners and brand-oriented scanners.
On today's vehicle reading and erasing codes is simply not enough when you have system with 20 different sensors.
HT200 is having troubleshooting pages, who show all sensor for the system and bad values are shown in red. Even 3rd grader can troubleshoot Mercedes with such gizmo.
My software skills are probably on the level of 3-graders today?
My youngest son was starting the computer, finding saved game, opening it to continue and than saving for shut down being 5.
2 years later he learned how to read.
Last edited by kajtek1; May 10, 2022 at 01:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Post review of new scanner when you get some experience with it?
There is main difference between generic scanners and brand-oriented scanners.
On today's vehicle reading and erasing codes is simply not enough when you have system with 20 different sensors.
HT200 is having troubleshooting pages, who show all sensor for the system and bad values are shown in red. Even 3rd grader can troubleshoot Mercedes with such gizmo.
My software skills are probably on the level of 3-graders today?
My youngest son was starting the computer, finding saved game, opening it to continue and than saving for shut down being 5.
2 years later he learned how to read.
There is main difference between generic scanners and brand-oriented scanners.
On today's vehicle reading and erasing codes is simply not enough when you have system with 20 different sensors.
HT200 is having troubleshooting pages, who show all sensor for the system and bad values are shown in red. Even 3rd grader can troubleshoot Mercedes with such gizmo.
My software skills are probably on the level of 3-graders today?
My youngest son was starting the computer, finding saved game, opening it to continue and than saving for shut down being 5.
2 years later he learned how to read.
Will be really happy if it actually let's me fix it.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Just got the shipping notification on the ThinkDiag.
I have nothing to do all weekend.
It shows up on Monday.
I am traveling the next weekend!
FRACK!
I have nothing to do all weekend.
It shows up on Monday.
I am traveling the next weekend!
FRACK!
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Used the Think Diag to force the compressor on and got the car near normal levels.
Started the car and it ran fine, did that a few time then started it again and back to the problem.
Seems the circuit 15 relay is somewhere near the problem, BUT The relay reacts fine during relay test, and swapping the relay with another does not change the results at all.
Started the car and it ran fine, did that a few time then started it again and back to the problem.
Seems the circuit 15 relay is somewhere near the problem, BUT The relay reacts fine during relay test, and swapping the relay with another does not change the results at all.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Well, I got the ThinkDiag and it is pointing me in the direction of the new pump being bad, even though it seems to work.
I run the pump and the rest of the airmatic system through the tests and it works just fine.
If I have the ThinkDiag in Airmatic test mode that car runs (But the system is locked out waiting for commands from the Think Diag)
If I make the pump cycle the engine shuts down.
Tomorrow I am going to check voltages to see if the pump is pulling tooo much current, but I doubt it since the fuse has not blown and I have run the pump up to a full minute.
Maybe an internal short between one of the power leads and the other line (sensor or control)
I run the pump and the rest of the airmatic system through the tests and it works just fine.
If I have the ThinkDiag in Airmatic test mode that car runs (But the system is locked out waiting for commands from the Think Diag)
If I make the pump cycle the engine shuts down.
Tomorrow I am going to check voltages to see if the pump is pulling tooo much current, but I doubt it since the fuse has not blown and I have run the pump up to a full minute.
Maybe an internal short between one of the power leads and the other line (sensor or control)
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
AIRMATIC AND ENGINE CUTTING OFF - MBWorld.org Forums
Finally found a thread discussing th8s exact problem.
Seems a bad compressor will occasionally burn a trace in the fuse box (unintentional fuse).
Opened the fuse box, found the trace burnt, soldered in a jumper.
Reinstalled fuse box and all seemed well, till I got about 5 blocks from home.
Car died. Says do not change gear.
Will not restart and locked in Park.
FRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess it is time to have it towed to MB.
Finally found a thread discussing th8s exact problem.
Seems a bad compressor will occasionally burn a trace in the fuse box (unintentional fuse).
Opened the fuse box, found the trace burnt, soldered in a jumper.
Reinstalled fuse box and all seemed well, till I got about 5 blocks from home.
Car died. Says do not change gear.
Will not restart and locked in Park.
FRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess it is time to have it towed to MB.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Well, seems somehow my fix if the fuse box introduced an intermittent short that took out a fuse in the prefuse box.
F-ing dealer requires replacing the whole prefuse box with new.
Will not use a used prefuse box.
Will not replace the fuse in the prefuse box.
Does not have the prefuse box in stock.
Claims no prefuse boxes are in the US.
Orders one in from Germany.
(Note: all car models using this part came from the US.)
Dealer claims the part has arrived in the US (about3 weeks ago), but for some reason has not made it to the dealership.
So, I got the part number, found a seller on Amazon with Genuine MB parts, and ordered one.
It arrives tomorrow.
Being as they have had the car for 3 months, I wonder how much they are going to whine when I show up with the part?
F-ing dealer requires replacing the whole prefuse box with new.
Will not use a used prefuse box.
Will not replace the fuse in the prefuse box.
Does not have the prefuse box in stock.
Claims no prefuse boxes are in the US.
Orders one in from Germany.
(Note: all car models using this part came from the US.)
Dealer claims the part has arrived in the US (about3 weeks ago), but for some reason has not made it to the dealership.
So, I got the part number, found a seller on Amazon with Genuine MB parts, and ordered one.
It arrives tomorrow.
Being as they have had the car for 3 months, I wonder how much they are going to whine when I show up with the part?
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
Almost certainly you had the (intermittent?) short all along, and that's what caused the burnt trace in the first place. Your fix just kicked the can up to the next level. If they replace the prefuse box without finding the original cause, it'll just happen again. (Are they also replacing the box you "fixed"?)
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Almost certainly you had the (intermittent?) short all along, and that's what caused the burnt trace in the first place. Your fix just kicked the can up to the next level. If they replace the prefuse box without finding the original cause, it'll just happen again. (Are they also replacing the box you "fixed"?)
(Orhers report the same failure)
My repair wa good before I reassemreassembled the fuse box housing.
I am guessing that my added wire got pinched and one of the pins on the board punched through and created the short, because when I removed the board, i could not find the short, but the dealer fond it (put it back together to send to service).
They are replacing the main box to fix the short, and the prebox (because they don't replace the internal fuses).
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
For those following this thread.
The issue is the replacement compressor (even though it does not blow the fuse) pulls enough current to burn the fuse box.
Apparently they fried the new box and have to get another, but are not charging as they can "warrantee out" the new/bad fuse box.
My guess is it has a high starting surge, and the fuse has a bit of delay, with the weak link being the fuse box circuit trace.
I have seen this design flaw in other equipment, but it usually the other way were sustained current near to but below the fuse threshold overheats circuit board traces.
What is odd is in service mode the compressor runs fine, but that might feed it off a different circuit path.
Since it is stuck at the dealer, I am screwed in having to get an MB compressor for 33% over retail, and about 100% over a quality aftermarket compressor.
The good news is the car passed the brake booster recall with zero rust.
I'll have to replace the slow leaking rear air spring, as I am NOT paying anther $1000 for a $200 part and an hour.
The issue is the replacement compressor (even though it does not blow the fuse) pulls enough current to burn the fuse box.
Apparently they fried the new box and have to get another, but are not charging as they can "warrantee out" the new/bad fuse box.
My guess is it has a high starting surge, and the fuse has a bit of delay, with the weak link being the fuse box circuit trace.
I have seen this design flaw in other equipment, but it usually the other way were sustained current near to but below the fuse threshold overheats circuit board traces.
What is odd is in service mode the compressor runs fine, but that might feed it off a different circuit path.
Since it is stuck at the dealer, I am screwed in having to get an MB compressor for 33% over retail, and about 100% over a quality aftermarket compressor.
The good news is the car passed the brake booster recall with zero rust.
I'll have to replace the slow leaking rear air spring, as I am NOT paying anther $1000 for a $200 part and an hour.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,225
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
FYI you can bring OE, new part to the dealer and have them install it.
This way you will not pay local markup, what can be up to 100% in some location.
I had the same lately at Tire Shop, who would charge me 50% more for a tire, when Tire Rack delivered new tire to them in 2 days.
This way you will not pay local markup, what can be up to 100% in some location.
I had the same lately at Tire Shop, who would charge me 50% more for a tire, when Tire Rack delivered new tire to them in 2 days.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
FYI you can bring OE, new part to the dealer and have them install it.
This way you will not pay local markup, what can be up to 100% in some location.
I had the same lately at Tire Shop, who would charge me 50% more for a tire, when Tire Rack delivered new tire to them in 2 days.
This way you will not pay local markup, what can be up to 100% in some location.
I had the same lately at Tire Shop, who would charge me 50% more for a tire, when Tire Rack delivered new tire to them in 2 days.
I use Tirerack all the time (since before the internet) and use their contracted installers. (That is a bit different)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,225
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Sure they are not going to like it as markup can make several hundred$$$ of income without doing any work, but I did it several times with MB dealers with no problem.
MB parts come with warranty good at any dealer in the country. That is not quite common.
MB parts come with warranty good at any dealer in the country. That is not quite common.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
I will give it a try when I know the specific part to be replaced, but usually in those cases I do it myself or take it to an Indi shop.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2013
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From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
We certainly would not install any customer supplied parts in the P-car shop, and furthermore, if you are that cheap that you cant afford the ~10-15% markup on parts from wholesale or the $179 CAD ($133.66 USD) hourly rate, we don't want you as a customer to begin with. Who will pay for the mechanics' time and other costs when the part you supplied does not work or malfunctions (as you have just experienced)? It's not the mechanics' or the shops' fault you brought in a defective compressor. If we get a bad part from Bosch or Valeo for example and it malfunctions, Bosch or Valeo reimburses us for the labour for taking it out and putting a new one in (the customer only pays what they would have paid for the original repair). So - yes, you have exactly ZERO expectation of performance when you bring your own parts in, and you're most definitely on the hook for the labour.
