OM651 vs OM642 oil jelling
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
MB 228.51 spec oil is approved for my 2014 GLK250. Chevron Delo 400 XLE SAE 10W-30 and 15W-40 ($20.62/gallon at Wal*Mart) oils both meet MB 228.51 and also API CK-4. Maybe one of them would be a good choice.
(They also met API SN, which makes them suitable for Gasoline powered engines as well.)
(They also met API SN, which makes them suitable for Gasoline powered engines as well.)
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I have no idea why some engines have an oil gelling problem, but I once owned a late '90s Toyota v6 gasser. Before I heard anything about its problem, I received a letter from Toyota saying that they had discovered that my engine type had an oil gelling problem and that they were extending the engine warranty by what I remember as quite a few years. I remember wondering why they did not give advice as to how to avoid the problem. With this in my background it is interesting to contrast Toyota's approach to that of Mercedes' on the 642.
Now those MB engine seizing are just handfull incidents in big thousands of Bluetecs on US roads. I follow the fate of the guy starting the topic and he did not seek lawyer advise, while he screw up service terms. That gave MB USA excuse to close the case.
Till something like that happens to a hot-shot lawyer, the case will not go farther.
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
you read too much tjts propaganda.
I trust MB engineers and rather listen to their recommendations, eventually even going farther with oil quality than min requirements.
I trust MB engineers and rather listen to their recommendations, eventually even going farther with oil quality than min requirements.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 739
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From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
MB has that recommendation for OM651 engines (and certain 642) on there website CURRENTLY. This means that it is perfectectly acceptable and recommended by the MB engineers. If it was the cause of the issue in my mind they would have removed that allowance long time ago. Just my opinion though.
Thread Starter
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From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
That is the one thing I dont really care for with the oil, generally when they increase fuel mileage via thinned out oil it is at the expense of the engine longevity. And no I am not agreeing with the other poster on this thread necessarily, just saying lots of these oils are used/required/recommended by manufacturer so they can meet certain epa requirements on fuel mileage and theoretically last the engine warranty. EPA couldnt give 1 F about the over all impact just the rated fuel mileage and emissions upon sale. Instead of having a engine last 500k miles they would rather make them look good intially and only last 150k miles because producing 2 or 3 times as many vehicles per 1 is sound environmental advice.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
When I am not original owner of any of them, I run them on what you call "thinned oils" and I do oil lab test to prove that what I am doing is right.
The years when oil viscosity was giving main protection are long gone. Now it is chem pack, with lubrication improvements what counts. Beside chemical neutralizers who balance emission byproducts.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 305
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W211 E320 Diesel OM642
For Canadians
Pezoil Platinum Euro LX 0w30 229.52 spec is on sale @canadian tire now for $39.99 for 5L.
when you buy 2 jugs, you can apply for cash rebate of $20 from penzoil .
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/promo...jM5MV85My9jYS8
For USA friends, there are rebates too. Visit their site.
Pezoil Platinum Euro LX 0w30 229.52 spec is on sale @canadian tire now for $39.99 for 5L.
when you buy 2 jugs, you can apply for cash rebate of $20 from penzoil .
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/promo...jM5MV85My9jYS8
For USA friends, there are rebates too. Visit their site.
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Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 739
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From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
My Bluetecs are 206k, 160k and 130k miles.
When I am not original owner of any of them, I run them on what you call "thinned oils" and I do oil lab test to prove that what I am doing is right.
The years when oil viscosity was giving main protection are long gone. Now it is chem pack, with lubrication improvements what counts. Beside chemical neutralizers who balance emission byproducts.
When I am not original owner of any of them, I run them on what you call "thinned oils" and I do oil lab test to prove that what I am doing is right.
The years when oil viscosity was giving main protection are long gone. Now it is chem pack, with lubrication improvements what counts. Beside chemical neutralizers who balance emission byproducts.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 34
Likes: 17
E320
Baloney belongs in the Deli, not oil threads.
The MB 229.5X oils were designed as light duty diesel engine oils with ash dispersants, They are ACEA C3 class oils that happen to also be suitable in many gasoline engines.
By the "logic" employed by some, many HDEO oils are also gasoline rated, so they must not be good for diesel engines!!! Don't use that Rotella or Delo, it's for gas engines!!!
Dual rated oils are desirable from a logistics and bean counting view. Being a professional logistician for the Navy/Marine Corps for 35 years, I am pretty sure that purchasing, shipping, storing, and handling one product is less expensive and more efficient than having to do the same for multiple consumables. Especially for bulk items.
Hence, "rationalization" by the OEM to dealer network and vehicle fleets to one oil that meets multiple requirements.
MB doesn't spec thin, watery, inadequate oil. The 0/5W-30 229.5x oils are almost as thick as a 40. It's the HTHS >3.5 that is the defining spec that makes many other oils not meet C3, MB, BMW, and VW specs.
Many truck fleets are running SAE 30 oils in their big engines on the highway. It isn't too thin.. They're all >3.5 HTHS oils.
Old ways go with old engines. People still swear by diesel fuel and transmission fluid oil flushes. It's antiquated and should go the way of heating houses with coal.
SAPS content greater than .08 isn't good for DPFs in any DPF equipped Euro diesel car by any OEM. BMW and VW spec the same low SAPS.
Your engine, your money, don't care what you do. But don't tell other people that you know more than the people who designed the engines and oil. Saying MB spec oil is inadequate or bad or only for gasoline engines is false, wrong, and harmful.
The MB 229.5X oils were designed as light duty diesel engine oils with ash dispersants, They are ACEA C3 class oils that happen to also be suitable in many gasoline engines.
By the "logic" employed by some, many HDEO oils are also gasoline rated, so they must not be good for diesel engines!!! Don't use that Rotella or Delo, it's for gas engines!!!
Dual rated oils are desirable from a logistics and bean counting view. Being a professional logistician for the Navy/Marine Corps for 35 years, I am pretty sure that purchasing, shipping, storing, and handling one product is less expensive and more efficient than having to do the same for multiple consumables. Especially for bulk items.
Hence, "rationalization" by the OEM to dealer network and vehicle fleets to one oil that meets multiple requirements.
MB doesn't spec thin, watery, inadequate oil. The 0/5W-30 229.5x oils are almost as thick as a 40. It's the HTHS >3.5 that is the defining spec that makes many other oils not meet C3, MB, BMW, and VW specs.
Many truck fleets are running SAE 30 oils in their big engines on the highway. It isn't too thin.. They're all >3.5 HTHS oils.
Old ways go with old engines. People still swear by diesel fuel and transmission fluid oil flushes. It's antiquated and should go the way of heating houses with coal.
SAPS content greater than .08 isn't good for DPFs in any DPF equipped Euro diesel car by any OEM. BMW and VW spec the same low SAPS.
Your engine, your money, don't care what you do. But don't tell other people that you know more than the people who designed the engines and oil. Saying MB spec oil is inadequate or bad or only for gasoline engines is false, wrong, and harmful.
Last edited by gone gone gone; Mar 15, 2023 at 11:42 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 739
Likes: 328
From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
Baloney belongs in the Deli, not oil threads.
The MB 229.5X oils were designed as light duty diesel engine oils with ash dispersants, They are ACEA C3 class oils that happen to also be suitable in many gasoline engines.
By the "logic" employed by some, many HDEO oils are also gasoline rated, so they must not be good for diesel engines!!! Don't use that Rotella or Delo, it's for gas engines!!!
Dual rated oils are desirable from a logistics and bean counting view. Being a professional logistician for the Navy/Marine Corps for 35 years, I am pretty sure that purchasing, shipping, storing, and handling one product is less expensive and more efficient than having to do the same for multiple consumables. Especially for bulk items.
Hence, "rationalization" by the OEM to dealer network and vehicle fleets to one oil that meets multiple requirements.
MB doesn't spec thin, watery, inadequate oil. The 0/5W-30 229.5x oils are almost as thick as a 40. It's the HTHS >3.5 that is the defining spec that makes many other oils not meet C3, MB, BMW, and VW specs.
Many truck fleets are running SAE 30 oils in their big engines on the highway. It isn't too thin.. They're all >3.5 HTHS oils.
.........Just for clarifciation I assume all the 15w40 oils are greater than 3.7 Correct me if Im wrong...........
Old ways go with old engines. People still swear by diesel fuel and transmission fluid oil flushes. It's antiquated and should go the way of heating houses with coal.
SAPS content greater than .08 isn't good for DPFs in any DPF equipped Euro diesel car by any OEM. BMW and VW spec the same low SAPS.
.........whats the difference from euro DPFs to US DPFs in diesel applications or italian japanese .... for that matter? Not argueing lower is better but less than 1.0 is the standard for most vehicles over here, and they are usually less then that when tested.........
Your engine, your money, don't care what you do. But don't tell other people that you know more than the people who designed the engines and oil. Saying MB spec oil is inadequate or bad or only for gasoline engines is false, wrong, and harmful.
The MB 229.5X oils were designed as light duty diesel engine oils with ash dispersants, They are ACEA C3 class oils that happen to also be suitable in many gasoline engines.
By the "logic" employed by some, many HDEO oils are also gasoline rated, so they must not be good for diesel engines!!! Don't use that Rotella or Delo, it's for gas engines!!!
Dual rated oils are desirable from a logistics and bean counting view. Being a professional logistician for the Navy/Marine Corps for 35 years, I am pretty sure that purchasing, shipping, storing, and handling one product is less expensive and more efficient than having to do the same for multiple consumables. Especially for bulk items.
Hence, "rationalization" by the OEM to dealer network and vehicle fleets to one oil that meets multiple requirements.
MB doesn't spec thin, watery, inadequate oil. The 0/5W-30 229.5x oils are almost as thick as a 40. It's the HTHS >3.5 that is the defining spec that makes many other oils not meet C3, MB, BMW, and VW specs.
Many truck fleets are running SAE 30 oils in their big engines on the highway. It isn't too thin.. They're all >3.5 HTHS oils.
.........Just for clarifciation I assume all the 15w40 oils are greater than 3.7 Correct me if Im wrong...........
Old ways go with old engines. People still swear by diesel fuel and transmission fluid oil flushes. It's antiquated and should go the way of heating houses with coal.
SAPS content greater than .08 isn't good for DPFs in any DPF equipped Euro diesel car by any OEM. BMW and VW spec the same low SAPS.
.........whats the difference from euro DPFs to US DPFs in diesel applications or italian japanese .... for that matter? Not argueing lower is better but less than 1.0 is the standard for most vehicles over here, and they are usually less then that when tested.........
Your engine, your money, don't care what you do. But don't tell other people that you know more than the people who designed the engines and oil. Saying MB spec oil is inadequate or bad or only for gasoline engines is false, wrong, and harmful.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,745
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From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
Baloney belongs in the Deli, not oil threads.
The MB 229.5X oils were designed as light duty diesel engine oils with ash dispersants, They are ACEA C3 class oils that happen to also be suitable in many gasoline engines.
By the "logic" employed by some, many HDEO oils are also gasoline rated, so they must not be good for diesel engines!!! Don't use that Rotella or Delo, it's for gas engines!!!
Dual rated oils are desirable from a logistics and bean counting view. Being a professional logistician for the Navy/Marine Corps for 35 years, I am pretty sure that purchasing, shipping, storing, and handling one product is less expensive and more efficient than having to do the same for multiple consumables. Especially for bulk items.
Hence, "rationalization" by the OEM to dealer network and vehicle fleets to one oil that meets multiple requirements.
MB doesn't spec thin, watery, inadequate oil. The 0/5W-30 229.5x oils are almost as thick as a 40. It's the HTHS >3.5 that is the defining spec that makes many other oils not meet C3, MB, BMW, and VW specs.
Many truck fleets are running SAE 30 oils in their big engines on the highway. It isn't too thin.. They're all >3.5 HTHS oils.
Old ways go with old engines. People still swear by diesel fuel and transmission fluid oil flushes. It's antiquated and should go the way of heating houses with coal.
SAPS content greater than .08 isn't good for DPFs in any DPF equipped Euro diesel car by any OEM. BMW and VW spec the same low SAPS.
Your engine, your money, don't care what you do. But don't tell other people that you know more than the people who designed the engines and oil. Saying MB spec oil is inadequate or bad or only for gasoline engines is false, wrong, and harmful.
The MB 229.5X oils were designed as light duty diesel engine oils with ash dispersants, They are ACEA C3 class oils that happen to also be suitable in many gasoline engines.
By the "logic" employed by some, many HDEO oils are also gasoline rated, so they must not be good for diesel engines!!! Don't use that Rotella or Delo, it's for gas engines!!!
Dual rated oils are desirable from a logistics and bean counting view. Being a professional logistician for the Navy/Marine Corps for 35 years, I am pretty sure that purchasing, shipping, storing, and handling one product is less expensive and more efficient than having to do the same for multiple consumables. Especially for bulk items.
Hence, "rationalization" by the OEM to dealer network and vehicle fleets to one oil that meets multiple requirements.
MB doesn't spec thin, watery, inadequate oil. The 0/5W-30 229.5x oils are almost as thick as a 40. It's the HTHS >3.5 that is the defining spec that makes many other oils not meet C3, MB, BMW, and VW specs.
Many truck fleets are running SAE 30 oils in their big engines on the highway. It isn't too thin.. They're all >3.5 HTHS oils.
Old ways go with old engines. People still swear by diesel fuel and transmission fluid oil flushes. It's antiquated and should go the way of heating houses with coal.
SAPS content greater than .08 isn't good for DPFs in any DPF equipped Euro diesel car by any OEM. BMW and VW spec the same low SAPS.
Your engine, your money, don't care what you do. But don't tell other people that you know more than the people who designed the engines and oil. Saying MB spec oil is inadequate or bad or only for gasoline engines is false, wrong, and harmful.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 39
Likes: 14
E250 4M
Careful as that Pennzoil LX oil is 5W-40 or 0W-40 viscosity
For Canadians
Pezoil Platinum Euro LX 0w30 229.52 spec is on sale @canadian tire now for $39.99 for 5L.
when you buy 2 jugs, you can apply for cash rebate of $20 from penzoil .
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/promo...jM5MV85My9jYS8
For USA friends, there are rebates too. Visit their site.
Pezoil Platinum Euro LX 0w30 229.52 spec is on sale @canadian tire now for $39.99 for 5L.
when you buy 2 jugs, you can apply for cash rebate of $20 from penzoil .
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/promo...jM5MV85My9jYS8
For USA friends, there are rebates too. Visit their site.
Last edited by Mawk1; Mar 16, 2023 at 11:35 PM.
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From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: New Hampsha
'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250, Grandpa's Roadster
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Joined: Dec 2021
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E320
Time for the BEVO official MB approved oil lists again.
Read them and see that Diabolis and Johnny CC are correct, and some others just don't do their homework.
MB 229.51 Official @MB
MB 229.52 Official @MB
Been driving a 2008 E320 w/DPF (no ADBlue) since 2008 and the worst I've ever had is replacing the Batwing for bad MAFs after 14 years!
Nothing internal to the Engine nor DPF. Why? Following the BEVO!!! I do not follow internet hearsay, the old ways gramps did, or use HDEO with too much ash.
By the way, Gramps died in the 1960s and so did his ways of doing things. I'm Gramps now, so do it my way!
I have my Gramps' old Ford wrench from the 1920s if you want to try changing your O2 sensor with it. He also put sand in his tires during WWII because they wouldn't go flat during the rubber shortage. Want to try that?
Read them and see that Diabolis and Johnny CC are correct, and some others just don't do their homework.
MB 229.51 Official @MB
MB 229.52 Official @MB
Been driving a 2008 E320 w/DPF (no ADBlue) since 2008 and the worst I've ever had is replacing the Batwing for bad MAFs after 14 years!
Nothing internal to the Engine nor DPF. Why? Following the BEVO!!! I do not follow internet hearsay, the old ways gramps did, or use HDEO with too much ash.
By the way, Gramps died in the 1960s and so did his ways of doing things. I'm Gramps now, so do it my way!
I have my Gramps' old Ford wrench from the 1920s if you want to try changing your O2 sensor with it. He also put sand in his tires during WWII because they wouldn't go flat during the rubber shortage. Want to try that?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 434
C320
Time for the BEVO official MB approved oil lists again.
MB 229.51 Official @MB
MB 229.52 Official @MB
MB 229.51 Official @MB
MB 229.52 Official @MB
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 34
Likes: 17
E320
A: It varies by manufacturer and specific product, but mostly yes, in that neighborhood, 3.7 to about 4.
Q: "whats the difference from euro DPFs to US DPFs in diesel applications or Italian Japanese .... for that matter? Not arguing lower is better but less than 1.0 is the standard for most vehicles over here, and they are usually less then that when tested.........
A: Eurocar DPFs are small, very small. US DPFs are huge in comparison. Pickup trucks have DPFs larger than the mufflers on Eurocars.. Big trucks, like semi's and dump trucks, etc., have huge DPFS that are designed to be dismantled and cleaned commercially. Low ash HDEOs are designed around an ash content of 1. I have never seen a manufacturer's (Shell, Castrol, Mobil, etc) spec sheet that shows less than 1. Could be some, but the standard is 1.
Size matters.. You can see the DPF on an OM642 car on the right/passenger side of the engine. It has an O2 sensor in the middle and a temp sensor facing towards the turbo, It's tiny relative to a truck.
Sorry, for the Japanese diesel cars, I have no experience as they are few and far between here.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
European engines most of the time do have completely different tunes, when I am often finding whole list of modules are different.
I have MaxiEcu scanner, made for European cars and too often my US modules are "unknow" to it.
Part of the differences is different fuels, but also US drivers tend to abuse vehicles more than European drivers, what leads to US engines being derated for their protection.
Sprinters have DPFs about 4 times bigger than the same engines in sedans.
I have MaxiEcu scanner, made for European cars and too often my US modules are "unknow" to it.
Part of the differences is different fuels, but also US drivers tend to abuse vehicles more than European drivers, what leads to US engines being derated for their protection.
Sprinters have DPFs about 4 times bigger than the same engines in sedans.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 34
Likes: 17
E320
Those are diesel oils "Bro".
Read and learn :"Bro":
Oilspecifications.org
Reading is comprehensive. Comprehension is beyond some individual's ability.
Read and learn :"Bro":
Oilspecifications.org
Reading is comprehensive. Comprehension is beyond some individual's ability.
Last edited by gone gone gone; Mar 17, 2023 at 12:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 739
Likes: 328
From: WA State, USA
2014 Cummins, 2014 E250 Bluetec
Q: Just for clarification I assume all the 15w40 oils are greater than 3.7 Correct me if I'm wrong.
A: It varies by manufacturer and specific product, but mostly yes, in that neighborhood, 3.7 to about 4.
Q: "whats the difference from euro DPFs to US DPFs in diesel applications or Italian Japanese .... for that matter? Not arguing lower is better but less than 1.0 is the standard for most vehicles over here, and they are usually less then that when tested.........
A: Eurocar DPFs are small, very small. US DPFs are huge in comparison. Pickup trucks have DPFs larger than the mufflers on Eurocars.. Big trucks, like semi's and dump trucks, etc., have huge DPFS that are designed to be dismantled and cleaned commercially. Low ash HDEOs are designed around an ash content of 1. I have never seen a manufacturer's (Shell, Castrol, Mobil, etc) spec sheet that shows less than 1. Could be some, but the standard is 1.
Size matters.. You can see the DPF on an OM642 car on the right/passenger side of the engine. It has an O2 sensor in the middle and a temp sensor facing towards the turbo, It's tiny relative to a truck.
Sorry, for the Japanese diesel cars, I have no experience as they are few and far between here.
A: It varies by manufacturer and specific product, but mostly yes, in that neighborhood, 3.7 to about 4.
Q: "whats the difference from euro DPFs to US DPFs in diesel applications or Italian Japanese .... for that matter? Not arguing lower is better but less than 1.0 is the standard for most vehicles over here, and they are usually less then that when tested.........
A: Eurocar DPFs are small, very small. US DPFs are huge in comparison. Pickup trucks have DPFs larger than the mufflers on Eurocars.. Big trucks, like semi's and dump trucks, etc., have huge DPFS that are designed to be dismantled and cleaned commercially. Low ash HDEOs are designed around an ash content of 1. I have never seen a manufacturer's (Shell, Castrol, Mobil, etc) spec sheet that shows less than 1. Could be some, but the standard is 1.
Size matters.. You can see the DPF on an OM642 car on the right/passenger side of the engine. It has an O2 sensor in the middle and a temp sensor facing towards the turbo, It's tiny relative to a truck.
Sorry, for the Japanese diesel cars, I have no experience as they are few and far between here.
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C320
DPF is sized according to the expected load on the engine, not where the vehicle came from. When engineers size the DPF they look at miles between Regen cycles and size accordingly. 6.0+ diesel truck is expected to spend much of its life towing heavy loads therefore the DPF is sized accordingly. Even through a sprinter uses the same long block as an E class, It punches a huge hole through the air and can be loaded well over 8000lbs.
There are some important differences between diesel CK-4 oil and gasoline 229.51 oil. Can you spot the differences?
CK-4 diesel oil
229.51 gasoline oil
Keep pouring gasoline oil into your diesel engine and watch your timing chain stretch while the crankcase fills with jello. Somebody's got to put the MB tech's kids through college.
👍
Last edited by tjts1; Mar 18, 2023 at 10:56 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 3,745
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From: The Great White North
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars
BINGO!
DPF is sized according to the expected load on the engine, not where the vehicle came from. When engineers size the DPF they look at miles between Regen cycles and size accordingly. 6.0+ diesel truck is expected to spend much of its life towing heavy loads therefore the DPF is sized accordingly. Even through a sprinter uses the same long block as an E class, It punches a huge hole through the air and can be loaded well over 8000lbs.
There are some important differences between diesel CK-4 oil and gasoline 229.51 oil. Can you spot the differences?
CK-4 diesel oil
229.51 gasoline oil
Keep pouring gasoline oil into your diesel engine and watch your timing chain stretch while the crankcase fills with jello. Somebody's got to put the MB tech's kids through college.
👍
DPF is sized according to the expected load on the engine, not where the vehicle came from. When engineers size the DPF they look at miles between Regen cycles and size accordingly. 6.0+ diesel truck is expected to spend much of its life towing heavy loads therefore the DPF is sized accordingly. Even through a sprinter uses the same long block as an E class, It punches a huge hole through the air and can be loaded well over 8000lbs.
There are some important differences between diesel CK-4 oil and gasoline 229.51 oil. Can you spot the differences?
CK-4 diesel oil
229.51 gasoline oil
Keep pouring gasoline oil into your diesel engine and watch your timing chain stretch while the crankcase fills with jello. Somebody's got to put the MB tech's kids through college.
👍
