ngriff6825

Hi All,

New to the forums! Here's some background on where I'm at - picked up my Black 2012 E550 Coupe a couple months ago (every option except the Distronic and lighted door sills) and now that I've gotten past the 1,000 mile break-in period have begun the process of modding the car. Already tinted the windows and just sent my ECU out this morning to Eurocharged for their Stage 1 M278 tune. Talked to Jake and although their Stage 2 is ready, he recommends down-pipes and exhaust before going with the more aggressive tune. Jerry says they're seeing 4% increase in power with Stage 2 over Stage 1. Quick math nets around +70HP and +85TRQ at the wheels for Stg. 2. Not bad for a couple bolt-ons and a tune! Once I get some downs I'll send them back my ECU for a reflash with Stg2 (which they will do for free).

Anyway, my questions are these:

What intake options have people looked at? Haven't seen any true Cold-Air offerings for the M278. Any opinions on if they are even necessary seeing as the airboxes pipe fairly directly to the front grill?

Assuming no CAI, it seems like Weistec has an expensive option ($275) for drop-in filters. Renntech sells BMC's for $90. K&N has similar ones for around $75. Any experience with any of these or opinions on why someone would pay an extra $200 for the Weistecs.

Saw some DIY-style resonator delete work on here. Anyone offer a true turbo-back solution for M278 E-coupes? Anyone done a CAT delete without swapping out the entire exhaust? Not looking to rice out my Merc - just want the power without drone or ridiculous noise (My 05' WRX STi annoys my neighbors enough as it is).

I get my ECU back on Thursday so I'll let you guys know how it goes. I'll post pics soon. Thanks ahead of time for your help and I'm glad to finally be a part of the Benz community.

np888

Can you offer some thoughts on the Eurocharged tune when you get it? I really want to do it but I'm super nervous that if anything goes wrong, my entire powertrain warranty will be shot.

I'm the guy with the DIY resonator delete, I'll honestly say I think that you should just do the delete. The car sounds like a C63 without the resonators, I honestly don't know how an exhaust system could make it sound better.

Used2be

Congratulations on your new Mercedes! I'm new to the list also, but won't have my 2013 E550 coupe until November unfortunately. But I'm already in full mod mode and trying to plan how I'll progress with all my little "improvements". I can't give you any useful suggestions since I have no hands on experience with Mercedes, except perhaps to take time to evaluate each purchase for its real worth. Your choice of the Eurocharged ECU seems to me to be the best value for the dollar out there right now, and they seem to be easy to work with as well. While the air filter seems to go hand in hand with the engine upgrade, perhaps wait until you have some seat time with the new ECU, and then if you do make the filter change you'll be in a better position to judge if it helped or not. Although, an air filter is probably not an improvement that would give you a true change that you could feel from the driver's seat...... Hell, just do it, it can't hurt! I've had good experience with both BMC and K&N in motorcycles.

In any case I'll be following your progress with enthusiasm and some jealousy, but will look forward to your report on how the ECU changes the car! Have fun.

Dueclaws

Welcome to the forum!
Please keep us posted with your progress, espcially the tune. Jerry is in my area and seems to be great to work with; he referred me to a local shop for the resonator delete.
I'm not aware of any company offering "bolt-on" downpipes (larger than stock), etc. for the M278. You might need to engage a custom exhaust shop.

Is deleting the CATs necessary? Can't do that and pass inspection here.

Did any of you guys read the M/T comparo between the Sl550 (M278), BMW6, Porsche; the SL550 0-60 time was 4.0 secs. They also commented about its "thunderous" exhaust sound.
D.C.

ngriff6825

Thanks for the responses and welcomes. Will definitely post an update after I get the ECU back in tomorrow (might leave work a little early and go for a joy ride).

After asking Jerry and Jake a ton of questions regarding the tune and their process, I'm confident they did their due diligence with testing the tune and making sure its safe for our cars. Given that, if anything DOES go wrong (which I would bet would be the 7-speed auto tranny), I would ship the ECU back to them for a flash back to stock before taking the car in for repairs (even if that means a tow back to my place in the short term).

The reason I would consider a CAT delete / High Flow CATs is MB put a two element CAT directly behind each turbo - not the best for back pressure or flow. In D.C. they only check emissions through the OBD2 port = no check engine light, no problem. An easy 02 sensor extender mod prevents the CEL. Will definitely consider the resonator delete as it seems fairly priced in comparison to custom DP's (just 2 strait SS pipes w/ no mandrel bending).

Gonna wait a little while on the filters so I can gauge the change of the tune in isolation, but after looking at the disposable stock ones, I gotta imagine even the cheap K&N's would breath MUCH better.

Haven't read the M/T article but who won? We had to at least beat out the Bimmer. 0-60 in 4 flat is great. The SL's about the same weight as us at ~4K Lbs but has more HP and alot more torque stock (think MB de-tuned us to justify their product positioning). Would love to run against one after the tune and see how big the difference is. I get the feeling traction will be an issue so wider / better tires and potentially a limited slip diff. might be in my future.

Dueclaws

Unfortunately, the Porsche won with the BMW 2nd... But there was a fun comment about the SL "almost" chasing down the Porsche.
No LSD's are available for the '12+ E550 Coupe at this time. We ordered the optional performance tires with our E and I believe these tires offer a big difference in traction and handling over the all-season tires.
Looking forward to your reports!

Used2be

I sent an email off to Quaife engineering this morning to ask if they might build an LSD for our non-AMG differential. I believe there are just some small dimension differences from the AMG in the E55, so hopefully they might be able to do it without too much difficulty. I stressed the performance potential of the 4.6L bi-turbo and the need for ALL the traction we can get. I hope they realize that it is no longer just the AMG models that can benefit from performance upgrades.

Forgot to mention I checked with MB parts and the ECU for our E550 is about $1,000, which is less than I thought it might be. Eurocharged mentioned that some of their customers have taken that precaution in order to be able to switch back and forth for dealership visits. I was told a simple process with no complications. Eurocharged also mentioned that unless the dealer goes looking for mods on the ECU, it will go undetected during normal maintenance.

ngriff6825

Thanks! Let us know what you hear back. Any guesses at pricing? It seems their other LSD are ~$1k range.

Used2be

I didn't ask about pricing, and when their website says "Prices from: 790 pounds" I'm a little concerned where they top out...... 790 pounds translates to 1,186 US dollars at the moment. And that's without shipping. I'll post what I learn.

Dueclaws

I've corresponded with Quaife's best UK installer (Kevin Bird) and it's not an easy build. Until Quaife builds a proper LSD for the E (M278), Kevin suggested using a Quaife C63 LSD/Final Drive assembly. It will bolt in and the axles fit, etc. The problem is the axle ratio for a C63 is 2.82 and the E550 (M278) is 2.47; according to a reputable tech the transmission's software (not the engine ECU) would need to be changed to allow the 2.82. If it's not changed the transmission will go into "limp mode". Search this forum for LSD and there are more details there.

I have been through this starting with the dealer from whom we purchased the E: their tech tried to install a Quaife for an earlier E (QDF9V), but there is a 5mm internal difference (M278 ring gear is thicker). There is not enough material on the QDF9V ring gear mounting flange to machine 5mm.

But I have a thought: if the 2.82 C63 is used, what diameter rear tire would be required to make the transmission see the ratio as 2.47?
D.C.

Used2be

I did search for LSD content and do remember reading the post about the 5mm difference. I'd hope everyone who does want a Quaife for their 2012 and later 550E will write or call and let them know. Can't hurt to let them know there is demand out there and maybe it will happen sooner rather than later. If there are enough common parts in the LSD from the C63 to the E550, perhaps just a carrier change would do it.....? I never thought reliving my childhood would entail swapping differentials in a brand new Mercedes just as I did for my Chevy drag strip car in the 60s with a complete narrowed Pontiac rear end!!

That's a scary thought about the transmission 'limp mode' happening with different gearing. One of the reasons I didn't get a 4Matic was my belief that the tire sizes had to be the same front and rear. Maybe the tech had the 4Matic in mind.....? I'm not sure how to calculate the size tire needed, but think something on the order of 28.3 inches in diameter might do it. Over 3" taller than the stock size. Even the 275/40-19 is only 27.7". But, just a rough 'guestimation' by me.

Dueclaws

The tech knew it was an E550C. Quaife is our best bet if we can produce demand.

ronsc1985

Simply a tire with 2.82/2.47 the diameter of the stock tire.

The main problem doing this is the different wheel speed at any mph. The anti-lock brake system has it's kick in point relative to the ratio of wheel speeds between the front and rear. If you change the diameter of the rear ties by a considerable amount you will screw up the system. It can be corrected by changing parameters in the anti-lock control system if someone knows how to hack into the stored program. It's certainly doable but unless there is a demand no one will invest the time and energy to accomplish this.

Dueclaws

:Thanks Ron-
This was mostly a question for discussion. I don't believe it would be prudent to make changes: 2.82 gear ratio and the tire diameter/wheel speed effect on the anti-lock brake system. The thought of liability involved is a strong deterrent.
Those of us who want LSD for our E coupes, will need to wait until it's available.
D.C.

ronsc1985

Are you sure this is true? Seems to me in order to switch ECU's you would have to program in a bunch of stuff like VIN number, options etc. This stuff is easy for a dealer to do but having the dealer do it would kind of defeat your objective of changing ECU's when you return to the dealer for service.

I doubt a replacement ECU is "plug and play" but I certainly could be wrong in this assumption.

Used2be

As far as the "plug and play" ease of replacement, I was told that by a man from Eurocharged and I assume they have experience doing that. It is as simple as remove and replace. There are instructions with pictures on the Eurocharged site.

As far as programing the VIN into the ECU to fit your vehicle, you're correct. The parts man at my local dealership mentioned that as part of the purchase of a new ECU. No mention of reclaiming the original, and so you have a spare.....no? I didn't ask the Eurocharged man whether they have the capability to do the VIN and options loading in the new ECU, but if they are able to reprogram the ECU for performance, it may be possible. Dealers may differ in their approach to warranty issues, but mine appears to take the position of plausible deniability. If there is no obvious condition of warranty violation when the vehicle is brought in for service, they will tell Mercedes what needs to be done under warranty. A win/win for dealer and customer.

ngriff6825

Put the Eurocharged Stage 1 tune in last night and I only have one thing to say. Holy $#&!. Best $900 I ever spent. Drove around for about an hour, taking it easy at first just doing a few pulls here and there to make sure nothing went "Boom". Finally once I was confident things were okay I started putting the hammer down. Did a 0 -100 run on an empty highway onramp and man does this thing move! I was at 100 before I even knew it. The engine sounds more "angry" at high revs, like its was held back before and now can really scream. Was cruising at 50 and floored it and the wheels still managed to break loose. Definitely couldnt do that before. Turned off the traction control and used the paddel shifters, definitely have to be gentle with the throttle a bit if you want to keep traction in 1st (at least with stock wheels and tires). Anyway, going to take her out into the country this weekend and find some deserted roads to stretch the legs. I'm definitely going to put in some new filters as I want the car to be able to breath better if its going to be pulling this hard. Going to find a dyno around here to see what I'm putting down. Couldn't recommend the tune more and working with Jeff and Jerry was a pleasure.

Used2be

Thanks for the report, sounds excellent! First question is the $900 you mention. On the Eurocharged site it lists at $1,549, why the difference? Were you in top gear (7th I guess) and still broke the tires loose? If so that's impressive. Seems like we'll have to work hard on Quaife for a new differential. Haven't heard back from them yet, I'll rewrite them next week if there is still no response. Email them yourself with a description of the new power and maybe that'll get them thinking.....? Oh, is the 130mph limit now out of the ECU?

ngriff6825

They were running a sale for the past few weeks (they still might be), when you check out type "biturbo" in the coupon box and if the sale is still running then the price should drop to $899. The tranny dropped to 2nd when I floored it, but its still pretty cool to be doing 50 -60 and have enough power to chirp the tires. Will definitley email Quaife, although I think new wheels and tires will help a ton in the short run. The speed limiter is raised to 200mph (i.e. its gone)

Used2be

[QUOTE=ngriff6825;5341299 Will definitley email Quaife, although I think new wheels and tires will help a ton in the short run.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the sale tip, they are still offering the discount with the 'biturbo' code entered. Jake said probably for no more than 30 more days, so I have to decide if I want to order the upgrade before I even have the car.....?

I signed up for the Quaife newsletter just to stay in touch with what they're doing, and after that I took a look through their LSD differential section to see what their line up encompasses. I was blown away!! They have 54 PAGES with 10 entries per page of different models of differentials for different applications!!! For them to design and build the LSD we need for our current model with a mainstream manufacturer should be a no brainer for them. I hope everyone who is even thinking of a performance upgrade to their 2012 or later E550 coupe will write to Quaife to express their need for the great Quaife differential. I wonder if Eurocharged already has.....I'll ask them.

Used2be

I have some correspondence from Quaife about their LSD differential for the 2012+ E550 coupe. I'll include the last two which contain the pertinent info for us. As I said in the second paragraph of my reply, I do hope some local Brit will step up to give Quaife a stock differential they can measure to build an LSD unit. Looks like prices would be considerably higher than the starting point of 790 pounds.

Hello Steve,

Perhaps I was not clear in my previous email; we currently manufacture a selection of Mercedes applicable differentials for Kevin Birds Garages, these are applicable to both AMG and non AMG vehicles but I am unable to inform you which specific differential is applicable to which vehicle (whether it is AMG or not).

If you were to follow the link to Kevin Birds Garages website you should notice the first 5 applications on the list are not AMG, the information you have been given is incorrect.
http://birdsauto.com/quaife/search?m=mercedes&s=&mi=

I do not know if we currently manufacture a differential specifically for the '2013 E550 Mercedes Coupe' your first port of call must be to provide Kevin Birds Garages with the VIN number of your vehicle so they can inform you if they manufacture a diff for your vehicle.

If it is the case that they do not currently have an applicable differential for your vehicle then we are more than willing to manufacture one for you. We will need a sample differential and a minimum batch order. This will be an order of 20, but 30 would be preferable and more economically viable, is this something that is of interest to you?

Kind regards
Adrian Naish

Hello Adrian,

None of the first five units that are listed on the Birdsauto site are compatible with the 2012+ E550 coupe. Thank you for that link, I was unable to navigate the Kevin Bird site to Mercedes and could only find BMW applications. The Quaife site lists just two Mercedes units for the E55, also neither of which fit the 2012+ E550 coupe.

I am glad to hear you are willing to build an applicable LSD differential for my model of Mercedes. As an individual I cannot commit to purchasing 20 units, but if in the next months you hear from other individual owners is it possible that Quaife might realize that this is economically feasible and decide to build a limited quantity to test the market? There is amazing worldwide connectivity with the internet forums, and hopefully a Mercedes owner in the UK will feel it worth his while to provide you with a sample from which you could design another application for your excellent LSD.

I hope your sales/marketing department will keep an eye on the newer 2012+ Mercedes models for which Mercedes doesn't offer their limited slip differential and realize that it might be a niche that Quaife could fill. The new bi-turbo line of engines from Mercedes in both the 4.6L and 5.5L size have large horsepower gains easily available through ECU modification alone, and I believe many owners who don't want to make the AMG financial commitment on original purchase in order to get the LSD may wish to add it at a later date, from Quaife since no one else makes one to fit......

Thanks for your attention to this and I'll hope that demand will ramp up and Quaife will find it worthwhile to build the LSD for the popular Mercedes coupes.

Dueclaws

This is a clip of the emails between Kevin Bird, Mercedes tech Darrick, and me:

Re(2): Re(2): Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential

Good morning Darrick-
Here’s the response from Quaife. They quoted 1960.57L which is about $3,064.87 for the complete unit. They are also allowing a 400L or $625 credit against the purchase if I ship them the unit from my E.
Can you comment about the transmission, please?
Thanks
John

From: Kevin Bird [mailto:kevin.bird@birdsauto.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 1:40 AM
To: John
Subject: Re(2): Re(2): Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential

Yes, John,

It's the complete final drive unit. which is the final drive housing, the rear cover, and all the parts inside.
I am unaware of any need to reprogram the software of the transmission to suit the final drive ratio changes. As far as I am aware, the only transmission types we have come across that are sensitive to rear wheel speed are the "automated manual" gearboxes, like BMW SMG or Dual Clutch transmission types. I have never known a conventional automatic transmission needing attention after a ratio change, but maybe Renntech have more experience than we do.
I do know that the stability control system on MB cars can be upset by installing conventional LSDs, which is why the Quaife is so popular, because it doesn't trigger any issues.

Regards. Kevin.

RE: Re(2): Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential
From: John
To: Kevin Bird <kevin.bird@birdsauto.com>
Sent: 03/01/2012 19:11

Kevin-
So it’s clear to me, does your Quotation to supply the complete final drive with the Quaife installed, include you supplying the C63 housing?
Do you have an associated Quaife dealer in the Texas area who can install the unit?

Otherwise, the concern is with Renntech programming the Transmission to match the 1:2.82 ratio. I hope that a local Renntech dealer can do that.
Thank you
John

From: John
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:47 PM
To: 'Kevin Bird'
Subject: RE: Re(2): Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential

Hello Kevin-
This is Darrick’s response:
“From: Darrick
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:26 PM
To: John
Subject: Re: Re(2): Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential

The C63 rear axle housing with locking differential (code 471) would bolt right up to your car. The only problem would be the software in the Transmission would have to be change to Match the 1:2.82 ratio. The transmission control unit is part of the valve body so the car would have to be sent to Renntech to be programmed.
I had checked on that when the car was here to the point of looking at car we had in stock with the P31 and 471 op codes. The part numbers of housing casting on the C63 was the same as your car.


From: Kevin Bird [mailto:kevin.bird@birdsauto.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:37 AM
To: John Eschberger
Subject: Re(2): Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential

I regret this is not possible. You could take the risk to machine the Quaife flange down by 5mm, but that is risky, and will dramatically reduce the load carrying capacity of the differential flange. I have utmost faith in the fact that the Quaife is hugely overdesigned, but certainly Quaife would not condone that measure.

The only immediate possibility is to swap the final drive you have with a C63 version. This has the correct casing size, input and output shafts, and has a big additional benefit of having a drive ratio 2.82:1. So you will increase the torque output at the driving wheels by 16%, which is a great modification for acceleration performance increase. Of course you will lose a little of the fuel economy that MB have designed into this car, but my guess is that you haven't bought the car for that anyway!

We can supply a complete final drive, ready to install with "Quaife Inside" per the attached. We would also accept your existing drive back into our stock and would rebate £400 if you send it back. If there is enough demand, we would use it to develop a new version.

If possible, could you ask Darrick to confirm where he got the 203 351 07 05 part reference from? Is this the Differential Case, or the Final Drive Housing? The number we need is the part marked 150 on the other attachment.

Regards, Kevin.

RE: Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential
From: John
To: Kevin Bird <kevin.bird@birdsauto.com>
CC: darrick
Sent: 02/01/2012 15:21

Hello Kevin-
Per your request, please see the attached drawing showing the difference in the dimensions and also the differential housing #: per Darrick
Darrick’s card is attached and he said you may call or email him to discuss if you would like to do so.
Please contact me if you have any information or would like to discuss with me.
Best regards,
John



From: Kevin Bird [mailto:kevin.bird@birdsauto.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 8:07 AM
To: John
Subject: Re(2): Quaife limited slip differential

Wilco.

RE: Quaife limited slip differential
From: John
To: Kevin Bird <kevin.bird@birdsauto.com>
Sent: 21/12/2011 14:00

Hello Kevin-
Thank you for the quick response.
This is going to be bit of a project since all has been assembled back to factory parts.
I’ll look for a mechanic in the area who might be willing to work with me to get the dimensions; I can take the photos of the part numbers cast in the housing and differential.
If you discover something in the interim that identifies the part, please contact me.
Regards,
John

From: Kevin Bird [mailto:kevin.bird@birdsauto.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:55 AM
To: John
Subject: Re: Quaife limited slip differential

Dear John,

We cannot identify from the parts catalogue what it is you need. If I were to guess, I would also expect it to be the QDF9v, but clearly that isn't correct.

The only way forward with this is to get your technicians to measure and collect data from the existing differential. We would then compare it to the 10 versions we have already identified, and if we get a match, you could be in luck.

What I would need is photos of the part numbers cast into the final drive housing, and the differential itself.
Plus I would need the dimensions of all the measuring points against the attached drawing.

Regards, Kevin Bird

Used2be

John,

Thank you for all your previous work on this same topic. I guess this is the "What's next?" in the OP's post. The sales person from Quaife that replied to my inquiry tried twice to have me query Kevin Bird on this topic, but since you had already let me know you had been down that road, I wanted to press Quaife at their level to find if they would indeed make a new unit if the demand was there. I guess they will, but at a higher price point than I would have thought. And I have to imagine that over time there will be enough demand for them to produce the LSD we're asking for. I do hope all interested E550 owners will at least write to Quaife with a casual inquiry about the LSD, and as those mount up perhaps at some point they'll make the decision to start the build process.

Nuieve

Is the removal of speed limiter safe? I know on some cars (not E-coupe with it's ridiculous 130mph limit) it's there to protect driveline. For example, CTS-V won't go into 6th gear when doing max speed to protect engine/transmission.

ronsc1985

The 130 mph speed limit is due to the OEM H tire rating which is 130 mph continuous. Some time ago it became mandatory to have tires on any OEM car at delivery that could be run continuously at the max speed the car was capable of. The speed limit has little or nothing to due with the driveline, rear end or transmission.