Water/meth for our 550 coupes
06-02-2021, 01:18 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Water/meth for our 550 coupes
First my car is a 2012 e550 coupe very low miles with downpipes tune and some air flow mods all weistec.
Has anyone installed the Water meth kit?
What experiences do you have?
I'm getting a lot of heat soak during these summer months and this is a weekend car but always want full power on tap.
Has anyone had any experience with the kits and have you had to install the bov kit for this to work?
What brand did you use and why WEISTEC, RENNTECH OR ANYONE ELSE
auggestions please
Thank you
Has anyone installed the Water meth kit?
What experiences do you have?
I'm getting a lot of heat soak during these summer months and this is a weekend car but always want full power on tap.
Has anyone had any experience with the kits and have you had to install the bov kit for this to work?
What brand did you use and why WEISTEC, RENNTECH OR ANYONE ELSE
auggestions please
Thank you
07-15-2021, 10:43 PM
#2
Super Member
There are some threads on the subject, which I was looking at here and there. It seems like the Snow Performance setup is nice. I was looking at the 2.5 version because the 3.0 needed to tap off the fuel pressure sensor or some bs, but not sure our cars are compatible with that? Then you need to decide where to mount it because it needs to be after the intercooler but before the air temp RTD, which I think in ours is a very short distance? So I was wondering, if the spray misses the RTD will the eng run lean and kill it? I dunno, I guess it works because people like it, but I too would like more info, so consider your post bumped.
Another thing I've wondered about is making the intercooler work better by spraying a water mist in front of it. Cool the motor too. Probably won't do a lot for most people but it's hot where I live, so if anyone would bennie it would be me.
Yet another cool thought that I haven't seen mentioned is dropping the overall motor/water temp via the thermostat. This was normal back in the day and I usually ran a 160 stat, until I finally decided to run no stat at all. These computer controlled cars are much more finicky so I'm not sure how they'll react, but I bet dropping 20 or so degrees would do it some good.
Another thing I've wondered about is making the intercooler work better by spraying a water mist in front of it. Cool the motor too. Probably won't do a lot for most people but it's hot where I live, so if anyone would bennie it would be me.
Yet another cool thought that I haven't seen mentioned is dropping the overall motor/water temp via the thermostat. This was normal back in the day and I usually ran a 160 stat, until I finally decided to run no stat at all. These computer controlled cars are much more finicky so I'm not sure how they'll react, but I bet dropping 20 or so degrees would do it some good.
07-15-2021, 11:25 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Yeah I feel our cars would really benefit from lower temps. My car runs hot and literally power is not at all where it is when in a much colder climate.
Thats where meth kicks in....I have a lot of homework. What state are you in?
Thats where meth kicks in....I have a lot of homework. What state are you in?
08-10-2021, 11:32 PM
#5
Super Member
I live in southern california, which is basically desert so it's rather hot in the summer.
The no thermostat thing is an old wives tale, like putting a car batt on concrete will drain it. I've removed the stat on a lot of cars because it was one of the things I could count on to fail and I never had luck with replacements either so I started leaving them out. On my Chevota I actually bought a Moroso restrictor kit, which was simply aluminum discs that fit where the stat goes and each had a different hole size in the center. I never believed in restricting water flow but the kit was cheap and I figured this would be the ultimate test. With the smallest one it would overheat very quickly, then less so as hole got bigger and it ran the coolest by far with nothing there. No shock there.
Of course if you don't live somewhere hot like I do, you'll have other issues by removing a stat. My Chevota doesn't even have a choke, because no need in this weather. Even when it was really cold out, for here, I just have to feather gas for maybe a minute to keep it alive, or just start driving it because off idle it's fine.
Another thing with no stat and thus faster water flow is reducing/eliminating hot spots in the heads. I don't think most people are even aware of them but when an eng starts to get a little hot people will experience ping, which is often a hot spot(s). Let the faster water flow wash those away along with that problem. It's primarily a cast iron head problem but alum can do it too. It depends on the thickness of the head, it's design, water jacket location etc etc. I later switched to alum heads and I went from 9-1 compression to 10.7 with the same octane and timing, and water temp could even get higher before it started pinging, which was still not hot spots but just regular old normal too hot pinging. With iron and 9-1 it would start to ping when it got past 180F, but I ran a lot timing, 27 initial. That's another thing, the more timing it has the cooler it runs. If my timing was down at oem levels, which was ~8 or so, I'd overheat in traffic in no time, or basically any time the vacuum adv wasn't making up for it. I've fixed lots of misc old cars overheating issues by simply bumping timing 10-15 deg or so, and of course they run better too. Don't go doing that ***** nilly because there are factors, but it's doable.
I had a '70 Buick Riveria with a 455, and per the orig owner it always ran too hot in the summer and he did everything he could to help it, and failed. I got it ~2005, 35yrs later, advanced the timing and it never overheated and made more power & better mpg.
Back to the original subject; With fully computer controlled engines like my '16 E550, I bet it limits power until you're at a certain temp, then no doubt limits again when you exceed a certain point. Where that minimum temp is I don't know, but I do wonder how a stat set to min temp would work. These 278 engines have plastic intakes so eng heat soak to the intake is not an issue, so it would just be head temp. We do however have a serious issue with radiator and eng heat cooking our metal intake tubes to/from the turbos. Go ahead and touch one after a drive and see what I mean. So I plan on wrapping them, or what I can reach, with fiberglass wrap or something to insulate them. Maybe I'll just slide a tube sock over it, I dunno, but something.
I'm also currently following a thread where a guy is making a better intercooler for a M278: https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ler-build.html
Not sure if that is the route to go or maybe making the exchanger in front bigger/better, but I'm sure both. I also wonder about the piping, which seems too small to net max flow, and has too many bends, each of which pinch the tube a bit.
There's also people putting better intercooler pumps in, but getting one that out performs the oem pump by a worthwhile margin is $pendy. If those tubes are the restriction then maybe we just need to make bigger ones and the pump flow will improve?
Not sure what pump you have but the "010" pump is the oem one to have, which is good upgrade from the 004? I think that's the #, which is the last few in the part #. My '16 came with the 010, but I replaced it anyway because they apparently don't last but a few years. It was like $120 online last year. Also considering making it "On" all the time because oem they only come on when the intake air is pretty frikkin hot. I'd rather change the pump more often and have cooler air all the time.
I also wonder about airflow exiting the engine compartment, because the more restrictive it is the less flow, less flow means the air that does pass through is hotter, which explains why the intake pipes are so frikkin hot, and possibly explains your heat soak issue. If you look at the eng it looks almost as if the air doesn't have anywhere to go at all so I think improving that flow could help a lot, or at least some. I was thinking of maybe shimming the plastic skid plate under the eng so it hangs down 1/2" or so, which should open up flow, and at speed improve it even more as it sucks air out. Not sure what to do with the cover over the tranny, like alter it, remove it? Not sure what else to do without altering the cars looks.
Another fix (imo) for heat soak is water. In my Chevota I let it suck water into the carb to cool it right down. Like when I'm leaning on it too hard in the desert sand and it's too hot out to recover by running it, and it would take forever too cool if I shut it down. I would let it suck like 1/2 gal in maybe 30 sec and I'm good to go. A friend with a truck has little mist nozzles in front of his radiator so when towing up hill in the heat and it starts to get hot, he just sprays it. I think this may be an excellent idea for your heat soak issue. It may also be an excellent way to improve our interoolers since it's up front there too. Maybe have a switch that turns on a pump when you're at xx throttle or boost? I have a small 100+psi pump too, sounds like I just found a use for it...
So those are my thoughts, which may be tmi, but all pertain to the ultimate goal of cooling to make more power
Meanwhile I have other issues so I'm not doing anything until I fix it, which is my ECU is pulling boost to <8psi, no explanation as to why
The no thermostat thing is an old wives tale, like putting a car batt on concrete will drain it. I've removed the stat on a lot of cars because it was one of the things I could count on to fail and I never had luck with replacements either so I started leaving them out. On my Chevota I actually bought a Moroso restrictor kit, which was simply aluminum discs that fit where the stat goes and each had a different hole size in the center. I never believed in restricting water flow but the kit was cheap and I figured this would be the ultimate test. With the smallest one it would overheat very quickly, then less so as hole got bigger and it ran the coolest by far with nothing there. No shock there.
Of course if you don't live somewhere hot like I do, you'll have other issues by removing a stat. My Chevota doesn't even have a choke, because no need in this weather. Even when it was really cold out, for here, I just have to feather gas for maybe a minute to keep it alive, or just start driving it because off idle it's fine.
Another thing with no stat and thus faster water flow is reducing/eliminating hot spots in the heads. I don't think most people are even aware of them but when an eng starts to get a little hot people will experience ping, which is often a hot spot(s). Let the faster water flow wash those away along with that problem. It's primarily a cast iron head problem but alum can do it too. It depends on the thickness of the head, it's design, water jacket location etc etc. I later switched to alum heads and I went from 9-1 compression to 10.7 with the same octane and timing, and water temp could even get higher before it started pinging, which was still not hot spots but just regular old normal too hot pinging. With iron and 9-1 it would start to ping when it got past 180F, but I ran a lot timing, 27 initial. That's another thing, the more timing it has the cooler it runs. If my timing was down at oem levels, which was ~8 or so, I'd overheat in traffic in no time, or basically any time the vacuum adv wasn't making up for it. I've fixed lots of misc old cars overheating issues by simply bumping timing 10-15 deg or so, and of course they run better too. Don't go doing that ***** nilly because there are factors, but it's doable.
I had a '70 Buick Riveria with a 455, and per the orig owner it always ran too hot in the summer and he did everything he could to help it, and failed. I got it ~2005, 35yrs later, advanced the timing and it never overheated and made more power & better mpg.
Back to the original subject; With fully computer controlled engines like my '16 E550, I bet it limits power until you're at a certain temp, then no doubt limits again when you exceed a certain point. Where that minimum temp is I don't know, but I do wonder how a stat set to min temp would work. These 278 engines have plastic intakes so eng heat soak to the intake is not an issue, so it would just be head temp. We do however have a serious issue with radiator and eng heat cooking our metal intake tubes to/from the turbos. Go ahead and touch one after a drive and see what I mean. So I plan on wrapping them, or what I can reach, with fiberglass wrap or something to insulate them. Maybe I'll just slide a tube sock over it, I dunno, but something.
I'm also currently following a thread where a guy is making a better intercooler for a M278: https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ler-build.html
Not sure if that is the route to go or maybe making the exchanger in front bigger/better, but I'm sure both. I also wonder about the piping, which seems too small to net max flow, and has too many bends, each of which pinch the tube a bit.
There's also people putting better intercooler pumps in, but getting one that out performs the oem pump by a worthwhile margin is $pendy. If those tubes are the restriction then maybe we just need to make bigger ones and the pump flow will improve?
Not sure what pump you have but the "010" pump is the oem one to have, which is good upgrade from the 004? I think that's the #, which is the last few in the part #. My '16 came with the 010, but I replaced it anyway because they apparently don't last but a few years. It was like $120 online last year. Also considering making it "On" all the time because oem they only come on when the intake air is pretty frikkin hot. I'd rather change the pump more often and have cooler air all the time.
I also wonder about airflow exiting the engine compartment, because the more restrictive it is the less flow, less flow means the air that does pass through is hotter, which explains why the intake pipes are so frikkin hot, and possibly explains your heat soak issue. If you look at the eng it looks almost as if the air doesn't have anywhere to go at all so I think improving that flow could help a lot, or at least some. I was thinking of maybe shimming the plastic skid plate under the eng so it hangs down 1/2" or so, which should open up flow, and at speed improve it even more as it sucks air out. Not sure what to do with the cover over the tranny, like alter it, remove it? Not sure what else to do without altering the cars looks.
Another fix (imo) for heat soak is water. In my Chevota I let it suck water into the carb to cool it right down. Like when I'm leaning on it too hard in the desert sand and it's too hot out to recover by running it, and it would take forever too cool if I shut it down. I would let it suck like 1/2 gal in maybe 30 sec and I'm good to go. A friend with a truck has little mist nozzles in front of his radiator so when towing up hill in the heat and it starts to get hot, he just sprays it. I think this may be an excellent idea for your heat soak issue. It may also be an excellent way to improve our interoolers since it's up front there too. Maybe have a switch that turns on a pump when you're at xx throttle or boost? I have a small 100+psi pump too, sounds like I just found a use for it...
So those are my thoughts, which may be tmi, but all pertain to the ultimate goal of cooling to make more power
Meanwhile I have other issues so I'm not doing anything until I fix it, which is my ECU is pulling boost to <8psi, no explanation as to why
