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Small M157/M278 project. I wasn’t sure where to post this, though the intended vehicle this will be built for is a 2013 E550 (W212) with extensive mods, including turbos. However, I think this will be more popular with the AMG crowd, seeing as it’s the same intake and intercooler.
As many are familiar, when you turn up the boost on these biturbo v8s (in the high teens to mid 20s psi range), the system experiences heat soak. Not only that, but at these elevated boost levels, the intercooler can leak internally, sending a bit of coolant into the engine - this is the most detrimental drawback to the factory intercooler and what inspired this build. The factory unit just wasn’t designed to handle that kind of abuse, and isn’t really efficient at that level anyway.
The typical approach is to isolate the system so it isn’t utilizing coolant from the main radiator (this was eventually introduced as a factory split-cooling), and then upgrade/relocate the tank with a higher capacity aftermarket unit, as well as increase the coolant flow with a bigger pump and install a better heat exchanger. The only next step to really help intake temps is to resort to meth injection. Me personally, I’m not a fan of something I have to refill and is hard on aluminum surfaces (it will slowly eat up the intercooler if you spray it pre-intercooler).
All of these things are great and work well, from my understanding. However, no matter how efficient the rest of the system is, and how cold the coolant pumped through the intercooler can be, is it completely inevitable that the air intake temperature will creep upwards in a longer pull (ie. at the drag strip, or road course) simply due to the fact that the coolant can only soak up so much heat as it passes through the intercooler.
My plan/project is to build a factory style unit, except with DUAL coolant passes, and DUAL intercooler cores stacked together - meaning, the cold coolant from the heat exchanger will be routed to the intercooler in 2 lines, instead of just one, and pass through the front and back of the intercooler independently. This essentially gives the charged air a chance to brought closer to ambient temperature (or below ambient, if ice is in the tank) for the entire duration of a run, maximizing the power output without worry of a drop in power due to heat soak.
It is possible to create this dual coolant pass intercooler with a single core, however, the thickest core that’s available is 6”, and the factory unit is about 10”. As of the plans right now, I will be using two 4.5” cores - the small sacrifice in total core length (9” vs 10”) is more than compensated by the fact that this is essentially a compounded intercooler.
Here is what the core looks like separated from the end tanks. Fortunately, it comes apart with relative ease. There is an o-ring at each end and mine are still good since they were a bit oily. The idea is to essentially just cut out the core itself (minus the clamping edges) and build out my new unit within the constraints of the factory intake.
Note that the factory intercooler isn’t “bad”. It is fine for a car with factory turbos and the typical mods on a daily driver or occasional trip to the track. This is more intended for heavy track usage, top speed runs, etc. Heat is the enemy, and I’m looking to combat it with a system that doesn’t require any attention (like meth).
Thanks for reading. Will update later as cores and materials are ordered to build it out.
You will garner a lot of interest from the nutters in our Whats App chat. We've identified the stock intercooler as our cars achilles heel.... some of us are going the air to air route, while others are holding out for a better upgraded air to water solution.
I'm subscribed.
If you want to join our Whats App chat to discuss your progress and find some kindred souls then please PM me you name and cellphone number and I'll add you. One of our colleagues is in Toronto... he will be very interested in your progress.
Love how people are finally willing to try something different and think outside the box!
Just a thought, wouldn't it be better to eliminate the center core completely and work something similar to GAD? It dont matter how efficient the system is, having it squeezed in there is gonna lead to heat soak eventually IMO.
Been wanting to do something similar to this for a very long time! I came across these over 2 years ago before even seeing GAD and was thinking of doing something similar to their setup, but didnt have the time or the ***** to start such a project,
You can see here GAD removed the center one completely which prolly helps alot with heat soak.
DTK just did something similar as well but a lot uglier lol, however they kept the center core which I believe could hurt the system
Just my $0.02
Sub'd for more awesomeness.
You will garner a lot of interest from the nutters in our Whats App chat. We've identified the stock intercooler as our cars achilles heel.... some of us are going the air to air route, while others are holding out for a better upgraded air to water solution.
I'm subscribed.
If you want to join our Whats App chat to discuss your progress and find some kindred souls then please PM me you name and cellphone number and I'll add you. One of our colleagues is in Toronto... he will be very interested in your progress.
Really appreciate that! Love seeing how capable these cars are as demonstrated in your “Go Fast” thread. I will admit, I don’t even have the car yet.. However, am not totally new to turbo cars and efficiencies. Perhaps someone in the group (with a trunk tank already in place and ideally no meth) would be willing to give the first one some hell and report findings as far as IATs go. I’m likely going to be shaving the bottom of the intake a bit to add some space, so that could go with it so they don’t have to mess around with modifying theirs. Will definitely keep in touch when it’s nearing completion and have pressure tested it.
Originally Posted by SAMzE63s
Love how people are finally willing to try something different and think outside the box!
Just a thought, wouldn't it be better to eliminate the center core completely and work something similar to GAD? It dont matter how efficient the system is, having it squeezed in there is gonna lead to heat soak eventually IMO.
Been wanting to do something similar to this for a very long time! I came across these over 2 years ago before even seeing GAD and was thinking of doing something similar to their setup, but didnt have the time or the ***** to start such a project,
You can see here GAD removed the center one completely which prolly helps alot with heat soak.
DTK just did something similar as well but a lot uglier lol, however they kept the center core which I believe could hurt the system
Just my $0.02
Sub'd for more awesomeness.
Thanks! I have checked out some of GAD’s work - they’re putting out some insane cars! I totally agree with your sentiments, though this is more-so going to be a “drop in” replacement (given you can run the lines for a trunk tank - the easier stuff). My main concern was not having to relocate the pressure and temp sensors on the intercooler, and then there comes the issue with mounting the stock throttle body and running new charge pipes - more hassle than I’m willing to deal with, seeing as how you can make north of 700 on a mostly unmodified engine. Quite an impressive engine.
I don’t think the heat in the valley is AS big of an issue as the fact that the air has to pass through 10” of intercooler and doesn’t get cold coolant all the way through. I did a test with warm water and a hose - pumped it through the intercooler until it was full and exiting. It was basically instantaneously hot to the touch. I think with a properly sized heat exchanger and pump, the IATs will remain a touch above ambient with the dual pass/dual lines. But we shall see! Of course, a larger intercooler, ideally placed out of the engine bay, would be the best scenario.
Really appreciate that! Love seeing how capable these cars are as demonstrated in your “Go Fast” thread. I will admit, I don’t even have the car yet.. However, am not totally new to turbo cars and efficiencies. Perhaps someone in the group (with a trunk tank already in place and ideally no meth) would be willing to give the first one some hell and report findings as far as IATs go. I’m likely going to be shaving the bottom of the intake a bit to add some space, so that could go with it so they don’t have to mess around with modifying theirs. Will definitely keep in touch when it’s nearing completion and have pressure tested it.
Thanks! I have checked out some of GAD’s work - they’re putting out some insane cars! I totally agree with your sentiments, though this is more-so going to be a “drop in” replacement (given you can run the lines for a trunk tank - the easier stuff). My main concern was not having to relocate the pressure and temp sensors on the intercooler, and then there comes the issue with mounting the stock throttle body and running new charge pipes - more hassle than I’m willing to deal with, seeing as how you can make north of 700 on a mostly unmodified engine. Quite an impressive engine.
I don’t think the heat in the valley is AS big of an issue as the fact that the air has to pass through 10” of intercooler and doesn’t get cold coolant all the way through. I did a test with warm water and a hose - pumped it through the intercooler until it was full and exiting. It was basically instantaneously hot to the touch. I think with a properly sized heat exchanger and pump, the IATs will remain a touch above ambient with the dual pass/dual lines. But we shall see! Of course, a larger intercooler, ideally placed out of the engine bay, would be the best scenario.
You hit on all the reasons I'm keen to see a direct drop in replacement.. There is definite room for improvement with our existing setup. I've shared your thread with the Whats App group so you'll have a bunch of lurkers in this thread I expect, waiting with baited breath.
Really appreciate that! Love seeing how capable these cars are as demonstrated in your “Go Fast” thread. I will admit, I don’t even have the car yet.. However, am not totally new to turbo cars and efficiencies. Perhaps someone in the group (with a trunk tank already in place and ideally no meth) would be willing to give the first one some hell and report findings as far as IATs go. I’m likely going to be shaving the bottom of the intake a bit to add some space, so that could go with it so they don’t have to mess around with modifying theirs. Will definitely keep in touch when it’s nearing completion and have pressure tested it.
Thanks! I have checked out some of GAD’s work - they’re putting out some insane cars! I totally agree with your sentiments, though this is more-so going to be a “drop in” replacement (given you can run the lines for a trunk tank - the easier stuff). My main concern was not having to relocate the pressure and temp sensors on the intercooler, and then there comes the issue with mounting the stock throttle body and running new charge pipes - more hassle than I’m willing to deal with, seeing as how you can make north of 700 on a mostly unmodified engine. Quite an impressive engine.
I don’t think the heat in the valley is AS big of an issue as the fact that the air has to pass through 10” of intercooler and doesn’t get cold coolant all the way through. I did a test with warm water and a hose - pumped it through the intercooler until it was full and exiting. It was basically instantaneously hot to the touch. I think with a properly sized heat exchanger and pump, the IATs will remain a touch above ambient with the dual pass/dual lines. But we shall see! Of course, a larger intercooler, ideally placed out of the engine bay, would be the best scenario.
Fair enough, I'd be all over it regardless if its a drop in solution lol.
Keep up the good work! cant wait to see what you come up with
Wasn’t sure how to remove the plastic clips holding the lines in, so I just broke them off. Perhaps someone could educate me.
A look at the “water jackets”.
Bit of an archaic method of cutting. A band saw would have been nice, but this actually wasn’t too bad by hand.
I try to weigh parts as I remove/install them for comparison’s sake. About 5 1/4 lbs. The new ones will likely be a bit heavier.
Brief clean-up of the ends.. They’ll be trimmed back and more thoroughly cleaned up later.
I’m not too sure about how I’ll go about extending the air divider to the new intercooler (since it’ll be sitting back a bit). The factory plastic butts right up to the intercooler. More to come on that later.
The water necks and recesses will mostly be cut out once they’re fitted up. Any part of it that stays will be cold worked to meet the intercoolers smoothly..
That’s all for now until I start gathering the parts to start building. I may go ahead and shave the bottom of the intake in the meantime, as it will be necessary to tuck the intercoolers (6” tall) up as high as possible to allow room for the lines and side-mounted water end tanks.
If someone could help out with some dimensions or estimations, I could really use it.
I need to know how much space is in between the smallest gap between the intercooler and engine block (the “V” of the valley). Ideally, a measurement, but if “one index finger width” is what I can get, that is fine too.
Its a really tight fit since the 2 coolant lines are at the bottom of the v bank
I’m more concerned about the long edges of the intercooler itself, as the design I have will tuck the lines up tighter to the intercooler - the water will be entering and exiting the sides of the IC rather than the bottom. The factory lines hang considerably lower than what I have in mind.
Circled in red is my main concern - these corners are fixed points, they cannot move. This will give me a baseline of how much room I have to play with when fitting up the cores and water end tanks between them. I imagine they are pretty close to the block.
Also attached, the open valley.
My dimensions are basically ready to go, pending which core size we go with from Bell Intercoolers. I originally wanted a 6” height core, but with the flow direction we’re working with, they can only build them to 6.2” or 5.8” - the 5.8” will lose both an internal channel and external channel and have about 8% less flow capability. So I’d like to package the 6.2” if I can.
Intake is shaved.. Judging by the measurements with the new found space, I could probably fit the 6.2” tall cores. Though I’m very uneasy about building it out not knowing if a small amount of overhang on the sides or bottom will end up touching. I’d really like to get some clarity on how much space I’m working with before I order cores. In the meantime, I’ll be ordering up all of the misc materials to build the water end tanks.
Just wanted to drop some pics, the cores just came in! After some further discussion with Bell, I decided to play it safe and go with a 5.8” tall core - at least for this first one.
Bell does offer to weld the two cores together for a small amount extra - I wanted to leave that to them. It sure is a beauty!
Some of the other pieces for the water tanks have arrived, but I just wanted to get this core unboxed, photographed, and shared before I get some shut-eye. 😎
Nothing visual to share at the moment. It’s been mocked up in cardboard and thanks to another owner, I have some pictures of the space in the valley with everything (stock) bolted up - so I have a much better idea of my clearances. I was sweating that, a bit.
After next week, I should be able to get it all in aluminum and tacked welded together (and fully welded by someone other than me).
Sorry to those that have been patiently waiting to see this thing happen. Life stuff has been taking most of my time lately but I am able to poke at this here and there. I have not shared any pictures in some time, so here it is.
These bent pieces are essentially the basis for how I’m cutting out the remainder of the pieces, and how the water tanks will be shaped.. These dimensions and angles are saved.
Note that these will sit right about where the factory intercooler, at its widest points, ends. Much of the material sitting above will be trimmed back later.
The sides of the water tanks are done. This is one side as example. I just need to do some final trimming, then work on the bottom pieces where the line inlets and outlets will be feeding the tanks.
Note this will be trimmed DOWN a good bit because we don’t have anywhere near that much clearance.
That’s all I have at the moment. I want to have this ready for testing before it starts cooling down. However, I would like to make some templates for the pieces that are flat so they can easily be recreated.
04-21-2021, 06:41 PM
However, am not totally new to turbo cars and efficiencies. Perhaps someone in the group (with a trunk tank already in place and ideally no meth) would be willing to give the first one some hell and report findings as far as IATs go. I’m likely going to be shaving the bottom of the intake a bit to add some space, so that could go with it so they don’t have to mess around with modifying theirs. Will definitely keep in touch when it’s nearing completion and have pressure tested it.
