torquemonster

let me know if any of you have put a turbo on a w124 e320 '94 or '95 and how did it go, how mush power increase, worth paying for?

YNVDIZW124

The best way to make HP is to change to another engine. Maybe you can turbo charge that! Has anyone ever tried NOS? Im sure you can adapt a fogger system on the w124.

CDP

I know of a few 500E owners that are equipped with NOS.

I would much rather do a engine swap than turbocharge. N/A all the way.

YNVDIZW124

I always wanted to put an EFI 5.0 on my benz since i already have one but the problem you will have with most swaps is the steering. Your either going to make one up or get an engine that is the same as the m104 or m103 (older w124). Maybe the 2jzgte supra twin turbo charged engine would be nice but the price is crazy to install it!!!

ashman

best and esiest swap would be a C36 motor into a 94-95 e320. it will be a perfect match.

The car is already hfm, so one would only need minor things to make it work properly. but it will drop right in with no problems.

you would want the motor from a 95 c36.

Friend of mine put a c36 motor into his 87 w124 station wagon with a 3.27 lsd differential, and the thing is as fast to 100mph as his 500e, but after that the 500e kicks its butt.

AshMan

NorCal124

That is so sacrilegious.

YNVDIZW124

I wouldn't do it but just giving him some ideas. Also that's why i have a muscle car because it takes too much money to get the same HP out of a benz than a 69 Mustang. I mean if i want 700-800HP All i need is about 10K but for a benz to get 600HP you need like 30k.

If you wanted cheap performance don't buy a benz but if you want a good daily driver then go for it.

scottE320

I own a '94 E320 that I had a disagreement with a guard rail back in May. Front end sheet metal is pretty well trashed but hell, I can replace that myself without a body shop charging me a fortune. The insurance settlement wasn't near what I had into it so I took $500 less and kept the car. It is now going to be a project car for my 15 year old son and I and when it's done it's his. He had planned on getting one of those Japanese "tuners" when he got his license but I convinced him of the safety of the Benz. When I figure out how to attach photos, I'll show you what happened to the car in the accident and the fact I walked away with only a broken arm.

To show up these "tuners" we've decided that the 3.2L inline 6 is a perfect motor for a turbo, not that the engine wasn't great to begin with. Personally, I think this is one of Mercedes finest achievements in engine design. Installing a turbo has certain obstacles to overcome. First of all, there are no "turbo kits" that you can buy off the shelf that come complete that just bolt together like the numerous Honda Turbo Kits. They sell for anywhere from $2500 - $4000 depending on what your requirements are. However, one disadvantage to these kits is that you're stuck with the components they choose to include. When I look at some of these kits, the make and model of wastegate, intercooler etc. would not be my first choice. So, putting together my own "kit" with the components I want has some advantages.

The turbo we have chosen is the Garrett GT35R, at least 90% sure anyway pending confirmation of stock engine specifications. If anyone has CFM AIRFLOW SPECIFICATIONS for the 3.2L stock motor, I'm offering a steak dinner. Based on what I can see so far, it appears to be the best match for our requirements. It's rated up to 600 HP while we're targeting 500-550 HP at the flywheel. In my earlier days, I used to race, 1/4 mi. and build race engines so I know what this HP will feel like. Gives me goose bumps just thinking about it. To reach this target, I will probably have to port the head somewhat. I have access to a flow bench so a few weeks on that will be good therapy. Oversize valves are an option as well. The real custom work will be designing an exhaust manifold and getting someone to weld it up. Then, of course, there will be the interconnecting piping from the turbo to the intercooler to the intake. My real PROBLEMS ARE AS FOLLOWS and I'm looking for help:

1. Pistons - As far as I can tell, I will have to have custom forged pistons manufactured unless someone can tell me where to go to get 8.5:1 slugs.
2. Camshafts - Does anyone offer performance camshafts for this motor? If not, then I will probably send the cams to Crane Cams and decide with them on design spec's for a custom grind. I'm not going to waste a good turbo on stock camshafts!
3. Intake Manifold - Any suggestions or do I resort to porting the existing one?

I'm going to gamble that the stock crank and rods are over engineered to handle this HP. However, I will send the block, crank, rods, pretty well all engine components to North Carolina for cryogenic treatment. That will definitely help. Also, I'll have the engine bottom end balanced to 12,000 RPM to be safe.

With the fuel management, ECU etc., I'm going to enlist someone a hell of a lot smarter than me to take on that as a separate but parallel project. We're looking at next summer for completion so don't expect miracles. Any technical information on this engine that anyone has or runs across, same deal - steak dinner!

Scott and Dad

scottE320

Forgot to mention budget if anyone is interested in doing one:

Turbo and related components ..... by the time the smoke clears ... $3500.00
Pistons, custom ..... have been quoted ..................................... $ 700.00
Camshafts .. design and custom grind ... estimate ....................... $2000.00
Throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, fuel pump and regulator ............. $1500.00
Custom exhaust manifold and piping .......................................... $1500.00
Machine shop ... machining estimate ......................................... $1000.00

.................................................. .$10,700.00
...... everything else REALISTICALLY ..$ 5,000.00
.................................................. .$15,700.00

Scott and Dad

ZorroAMG

Hate to burst your bubble, but that is a hell of a lot of money to put into a weaker e-class. The drive train won't handle that kind of power as stock. You may as well use that money towards a 500E and have a tank of a car to make that power a lot easier......and safer. You forgot to price in brakes.....that car'll never stop with the factory setup..

I like the ambition and the fact that you are doing something individual though...gotta give you that

ashman

you could probably pickup a totalled c36 and transplant the engine, tranny etc into the car and have a very nice car.

The c36 motor with 3.27 differential should be about as fast as a 500e to 100 mph.

for 15,000 you could probably send the car to renntech and they could bore it out and do what they do best, maybe even a 6 speed manual tranny on it, and the car would be killer.

Sounds like a nice plan, but to me that is a hell of a lot of money to spend on the motor.

YNVDIZW124

Ok if your worried about safety why are you giving a 500-550hp car to your son?

there are a lot of places that make custom headers and intake tubes why is this a problem?

If you did this then why are you wasting your money to make 500-550hp from a 3.2 m104?

Also is not like you will be able to drive this car on the street if there are smog laws in your state.

If you REALLY want to do this project start by getting $100 and taking a lighter. You know the rest!

CDP

I'd rather put that 15K towards a down payment on a C55.

ozmercfan

or there is a brand new AMG MOTOR M104 3,6 LITER / 279hp on ebay

Item number: 8009803039

scottE320

Afternoon Gentlemen,

I appreciate the feedback. In order of your replies:

Zorro - I don't understand what you mean by "weaker E Class". I beg to differ on the drive train holding up. I do plan on overhauling the tranny and differential with cryogenic treatment of the gears, shafts etc. so time will tell. In any case, it's not the HP that concerns me as this accounts for a small percentage of equipment failures, it's the torque that I'm "worried" about. However, unlike the naturally aspirated 1/4 mi. motors I built where big torque is more instantaneous, the turbo torque curve will be less severe. That's what I'm banking on. If I'm wrong, I'll pay the price and kudos to you for pointing it out but I have considered what you're saying. Braking on this car is exceptional to begin with, I plan on addressing that later on.

Ashman - A C36 motor is half the HP of what I've described so how can you make comparisons? The driver of the 500E at 100 mph from a standing start will be straining to read my rear license plate. As you say, Renntech can work magic but seriously, $15,000 spent at Renntech may get me 350-400 HP maximum. To get them to install a turbo for 500+ HP would cost double what I'll spend. The 6-speed manual would cost nearly that much and it wouldn't be a "killer", just another couple of gears bolted up to a 225 HP 3.2L.

ozmercfan - Thanks for the info, I've seen that engine but 279 HP is a far cry from 500+ hp. I can get another 50 HP from my 3.2L in my sleep without spending that kind of money.

YNVDIZW124 - You're right, this is a lot of HP for the young lad but I believe that with him being involved in the building of this car, he will learn to respect that power and not be foolish. He's well aware of my first car, a '69 Impala SS 427, 4-speed. Off the showroom floor that motor was 425 HP with the solid lifter cam. I learned to respect what was under the hood and far be it for me to be a hypercrite with my son and tell him he's not responsible enough.

If you know of a particular shop that can build me an equal length tubular exhaust manifold for the turbo, please let me know. Honestly, I'm looking for someone fairly local (Toronto area) that can work with me on the actual fitting under the hood since it's going to be tight space wise.

Where's the challenge in building a 500 HP Dodge or Chevy? My last car was a '69 Charger R/T 440, stroked to 511, ported heads, roller cam, 13-1/2:1 Venolia's with Brooks aluminum rods, Edelbrock modified intake and Holley 1150 CFM 4-barrell. That car did 9.18 sec. @ 146 mph. Been there, done it, this is different, it's a Mercedes and it will be unique.

$100 and a lighter? No, I gave up the crack pipe long ago, living in the real world is far better, especially in a turbo E320 Benz.

ashman

I was merely suggesting the c36 motor as it is a nice AMG engine that would drop right in.

I understand what you are trying to achieve, it sounds like a nice project. make sure to doument everything for us 124 fans.

THough a 3.6 liter may be a good starting point, if you could get that one off ebay, then do all the turboing, it would be one hell of a beast...

I think you are going to beef up the tranny as wlel right? because it will most likely not handle that kind of power.

Alon

YNVDIZW124

Well living in so cal i can find almost anyone to do anything to my car. I saw a twin turbo setup for this engine on ebay so how about just buying one? Hell no is not a challenge building any big block. Im not a big block type of guy anyways and im into making lighter cars and hp and torque from small blocks. You can hit 9s with a turbo 302 or 5.0 with not that much money on a all tube chassis.

SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THE REAR END? HOW ABOUT PAINT AND BODY SINCE YOU HAD AN ACCIDENT? YOUR ALREADY AT 15K WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE FINAL PRICE?

Just to let you know if you ever try to sell it GOOD LUCK getting your money back. The car is salvage and no one is going to care if it has a turbo. Look at the barrett jackson auctions on tv and they have cars with engines with dual blowers making 2000hp selling for 1/4 what it cost to build.

I would have to be on crack to spend that kind of money on that car.

ZorroAMG

I admire your dedication and drive to see this project out. What I meant with my post is the 500E is where you should start since it was designed by mb to handle over 300HP stock. it only shares 40% of the parts that the 300E320 has and that is in order to design a proper car around the power....including the brakes that are MUCH better than the just adequate brakes on a 300E320. Add 200 more Hp to our cars and I'd HATE to be driving near you if you need to stop. Tranny and gears are only the START of the worries....

I am not criticizing your idea or telling you not to proceed, sheeit, PLEASE DO , i'd love to see it, just offering my semi-unprofessional advice as if I were to undertake a 500hp W124 project.

Good luck and God Speed (lots of it!)

AMG_Eric

i gotta be honest that is the craziest idea ever. i am not saying u are crazy but to spend 16k on a car that is worth 10k is fooooolish. if you wreck it you get 10k. if its stolen u get 10k. if u sell it you get 10k.

save a ton of money and just put a e420 motor or a 500e motor in. it should strap in. however you WILL need to replace the rear end and the tranny. a turbo is just asking for problems. you need to get the ecm's to work with a "bolt" on setup. your brakes will be 1500 easy. you didnt add in the tranny rebuild in the estimate. the flex discs might not handle the 500hp. they were not designed for it. the sway bars need replacing because now you have more hp to go into a turn.

the smartest thing would be to buy a c43 or a c36. it will give you the power you desire for the price you can spend. an "e" wasnt designed to blaze up the open road. that is why god invented ////AMG.

i may sound negative but i have owned this car for 9 years and trust me i have tried it all and seen all the advice and it states you want power get a AMG car.

ZorroAMG

The M119 V8 is not a drop in motor on a 320 or lower. You need the whole front clip from a 400E420 or 500E500. The engine bay and tranny tunnel are wider and will be necessary to fit an M119 in the 300E

scottE320

YNVDIZW124 - It seems from your perspective that money means everything. What the body work costs, what the final price will be and whether I ever decide to sell it is not the point of this discussion. Besides, what business is it of yours; did someone appoint you my financial adviser without telling me. The reason I joined this forum was to share with other members the basics of a project my son and I are undertaking and to reach out for any technical assistance and suggestions from those that may have something productive to offer. If all you plan on doing is muddy up this thread with negativism, then take your so. cal attitude somewhere else.

As for hitting 9's with a turbo 5.0L/302 with a tubular chassis for under $15K? Obviously that southern california sun has baked your brain. A turbo package for a Ford 5.0L will run you $5K alone and if you think stock 5.0L/302 heads can handle forced induction and flow the numbers you need, then you truly don't have a clue what you're talking about. A set of AFR heads will run you another $2K and we've just started. It takes a hell of a lot more than money to turn low 9's and that you surely don't have.

shadowgriffen

Scott I really admire what your doing, it's very inspiring and no matter how ludicrous it sounds to other people, it sounds like a dream to me!

Please document every step! I feel like a child, I cant wait to see it!

Oh yea and honestly, you should have known you were going to get alot of criticism for this! Even from your fellow w124 brethren!

ashman

I'm all for your project. as with anything, people are always going to criticise. I am hoping you saw mine as constructive criticism.

Like I said take pictures and document evcerything, I want to see this happen from start to end.

I agree that it is your money and you can do what you want with it, hell if I had $15,000 lying around I could put into my car I would do it in a second. I don;t care about the resale value, I'm not selling my car ever.

Alon

YNVDIZW124

OK I wasn't telling you not to do it go ahead and spend you money! Shiet i hope you go broke doing this project! So im the only one telling you negative this and that? LOOK!!

shadowgriffen
AMG_ERIC
ChrisDpham
Zorro_AMG

So i don't have money now? Since when do you know what my bank account balance is? You post on this forum like "look im going to put a turbo on a e320 and drop 15k in it!!" You got sooo much money but you have a 95 e320 to start with? If this whole thread was about -> LOOK IM GOING TO PUT A TURBO ON A 500E!! I would be like WOW rock on!

2k for AFR heads You say you build race engines? Keep paying retail buddy :p

Ok let me school you! Let say a STOCK (no tube chassis) 1992 LX, A 5.0 block, STOCK CRANK, forged rods, forged pistons, (pump gas) 8:5:1 compression, STOCK ported polished heads, comp cams regrind cam for turbo, 1.6 roller rockers, trickflow or edelbrock intake, bigger injectors, COMPLETE TURBO KIT is around 4k, All this will get you 800hp and in the the 9s so for under 15k you tell me? Even a retard can get 800hp and in the 9s @ 15-16 lbs of boost with 15k or it's just you!

I've been there done that and my brain is ok! But good luck buddy!

scottE320

Zorro - I appreciate what you're saying and you may be right; you seem to possess more knowledge about these models than I do. But tell me this, what is the difference in the transmissions and differentials between an E320 and E500? I can't see the differentials being different other than maybe gearing. Really, between the 3.2 and 5.0, we're only talking about 75-80 HP. That doesn't seem to be that big of a difference to warrant a stronger differential. With the transmission, I have a notion it's a hell of a lot stronger than we think. Perhaps some internal upgrades but I'll bet that's it. Look at the Chevy 2 speed Powerglide automatic from the 1960's. Who would have thought you could modify that and put it behind a 700+ HP big block 454.

As for the brakes, the only time I could see them as being inadequate would be a panic stop while under full throttle. We don't have any immediate plans to road race it and under normal driving there should be no change. It's not like we're adding a bunch of weight to the car that might affect it.

AMG_Eric - I'll let you in on a secret, God didn't invent AMG, he invented the human brain to be used for individual thought and reasoning. What is it with you and AMG, do you have stock in this company? If it makes you happy, when I'm finished, I'll put on some AMG badges on the trunk lid. Why can't an "E" blaze up the open road? In stock trim my E320 was happiest once it hit 100 mph. The turbo is just going to get there a bit quicker; far quicker than a C43 or C36 and at half the price that AMG would charge. AMG does not have a monopoly on Mercedes horsepower. Granted, AMG is a fine company with a reputation to match but to immediately turn to AMG for Mercedes engine performance without considering other options, that's akin to puppies with their mother at feeding time. God gave us brains to think for ourselves and make our own decisions, rational or otherwise. My son and I choose to embark on this project for the experience, the enjoyment and partly because we know of no one else that's done it. Like they say, it's not a job, it's an adventure.