Wiring a Sub
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From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
I'm planning on doing a custom sealed enclosure with fiberglass face. The max on the ebay sellers page says 600w max for the sub.
I'm thinking wire it in parallel in a sealed box...seems obvious given amp and sub stats. You guys agree?
I'm thinking wire it in parallel in a sealed box...seems obvious given amp and sub stats. You guys agree?
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From: Seattle
1990 300ce
Sounds fine, as long as you don't run it too hard. But I would still try and figure out whether that rating of 500 watts for the amp is peak or RMS. If it's 500 watts RMS, then your sub's 600 watts peak handling would make it a dangerous combo. It wouldn't necessarily blow, but you'd have to be intentionally careful.
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From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
So when looking at this stereo stuff. I've never understood what peak stands for. Is this the max watts before it overheats or distorts? I'm thinking of getting the TA3401 now because i will not be goin around bragging about how big my amp is. It seems like it fits my sub better too since the amp will be producing 400 and the sub RMS is 300.
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From: Seattle
1990 300ce
That's correct- the peak power is the amount of wattage an sub can handle for a split second. Like a loud bass drum hitting once. RMS power is the continuous power of the amp (or continuous power handling of a speaker).
So the best way to match a speaker and an amplifier is to get the RMS power of both components as close as possible. When you see an amp that advertisings "2,000 Watts", they almost always will be talking about peak power, which is not the best way to evaluate an amp's power at all. In fact, amps like that will often have an RMS power rating of something like 500 watts.
It is important to pay attention to peak power only because you don't want your amp to put out a sudden burst of power to your sub that the sub can't handle. That will blow the sub.
Like YNVDIZ said, you can make it work. But I get a little nervous whenever the instructions tell you to test/calibrate something by forcing your speakers into distortion... That's how some people calibrate their line voltages (pre-amp level power), and I find that to be a dangerous method. You just have to go very slow and be very careful.
So the best way to match a speaker and an amplifier is to get the RMS power of both components as close as possible. When you see an amp that advertisings "2,000 Watts", they almost always will be talking about peak power, which is not the best way to evaluate an amp's power at all. In fact, amps like that will often have an RMS power rating of something like 500 watts.
It is important to pay attention to peak power only because you don't want your amp to put out a sudden burst of power to your sub that the sub can't handle. That will blow the sub.
Like YNVDIZ said, you can make it work. But I get a little nervous whenever the instructions tell you to test/calibrate something by forcing your speakers into distortion... That's how some people calibrate their line voltages (pre-amp level power), and I find that to be a dangerous method. You just have to go very slow and be very careful.
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1997 E320
BenzBro,
You should always look at RMS ratings, that is what the sub or amp can actually put out. read more here: http://www.bcae1.com/voltages.htm
So I looked up on the sub you want to get and here's what I think:
You should be safe having the voice coils in parallel (so at 2 ohm) and driving the sub with 500 watts rms. The truth is I don't think that amp will put out 500 watts rms that well like a high end amp would. But still be careful with the gain. So for this just connect both negatives together and both positives together on the sub and run the amp in bridged mode.
You could always go with the single voice coil 4 ohm sub and only have 250 watts of power.
personally I would go with the first method because 1. I like more power even if I don't use it and 2. I wouldn't run the risk of the amp clipping or any distortion as a result of the amp not having enough juice to drive the sub.
As far as your box goes, I would recommend a ported (vented) box. I used to have a sealed box in my old 190E and when I switched to a ported box the bass almost doubled. A ported box is more efficient and if it is tuned right it will give you louder bass and better response. A sealed box is good for sound quality but for the amount of power you're working with I don't think it is going to impress you.
Also if you haven't bought your sub yet you should have a look at MA audio, they're priced very reasonably and they sound good, I have two in a prebuilt ported box and they're loud. Also look into subs with the 2" surround foam, I think they tend to be louder due to the increased movement they have.
You should always look at RMS ratings, that is what the sub or amp can actually put out. read more here: http://www.bcae1.com/voltages.htm
So I looked up on the sub you want to get and here's what I think:
You should be safe having the voice coils in parallel (so at 2 ohm) and driving the sub with 500 watts rms. The truth is I don't think that amp will put out 500 watts rms that well like a high end amp would. But still be careful with the gain. So for this just connect both negatives together and both positives together on the sub and run the amp in bridged mode.
You could always go with the single voice coil 4 ohm sub and only have 250 watts of power.
personally I would go with the first method because 1. I like more power even if I don't use it and 2. I wouldn't run the risk of the amp clipping or any distortion as a result of the amp not having enough juice to drive the sub.
As far as your box goes, I would recommend a ported (vented) box. I used to have a sealed box in my old 190E and when I switched to a ported box the bass almost doubled. A ported box is more efficient and if it is tuned right it will give you louder bass and better response. A sealed box is good for sound quality but for the amount of power you're working with I don't think it is going to impress you.
Also if you haven't bought your sub yet you should have a look at MA audio, they're priced very reasonably and they sound good, I have two in a prebuilt ported box and they're loud. Also look into subs with the 2" surround foam, I think they tend to be louder due to the increased movement they have.
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Thread Starter
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From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
koskesh- thanks for the info.
I'll look into MA audio. I know MTX ratings are low as far as watts go, but i was very impressed with a system i did for a friend that had a MTX amp/sub and also with my own MTX i had in my old 190e. I'll also look into the wider foam surround. Thanks again. Any reccomendations on caps/wire kits?
I'll look into MA audio. I know MTX ratings are low as far as watts go, but i was very impressed with a system i did for a friend that had a MTX amp/sub and also with my own MTX i had in my old 190e. I'll also look into the wider foam surround. Thanks again. Any reccomendations on caps/wire kits?
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From: Long Beach, Ca
lots of cars
Caps all you need is 1 farad cap and 4g wiring. I wouldn't go crazy with 1/0 or a bigger cap.
Subs i would recommend if you want tons of bass would be the fosgate power hx2 ( if you can find one), Alpine Type R, Eclipse Titanium, Infinity Perfect 12 DVQ, JBL GTI series, and the soundstream t4.
Subs i would recommend if you want tons of bass would be the fosgate power hx2 ( if you can find one), Alpine Type R, Eclipse Titanium, Infinity Perfect 12 DVQ, JBL GTI series, and the soundstream t4.
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From: MD
1993 300CE, 1999 528i
For a subwoofer in that power range, I would look at the SoundSplinter RL-i. It will have similar output to the MTX with great SQ. Also look into the new US Amps Xterminator series. I will always take US Amps over MTX.
www.soundsplinter.com
and www.soundsolutionsaudio.com
www.soundsplinter.com
and www.soundsolutionsaudio.com
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From: Seattle
1990 300ce
FYI, the rule of thumb for capacitors is to do 1 farad for each 1,000 watts. For 500 watts, all you would need is a .5 farad cap.
I researched capacitors a bit, and I came to the conclusion that they don't do a whole lot in lower-wattage applications. My amp is the JL Audio 500/5, which only sends 250 watts through the sub channel. So I decided not to put one in my system.
I agree that if you want rumbling bass, use a ported or bandpass enclosure. I used to be into that, but my personal preference has become sealed enclosures... I'm more focussed on SQ than volume. ISo that means that I have to mount my sub in the rear deck in order to get sufficient sound into the cabin. So I cut a 10" hole. Actually, I'm in the middle of re-doing my system right now and I decided to go install my sub in an infinite baffle configuration (i.e. the sub uses the trunk as an enclosure- there's no box). I won't go into the principles behind that. Google it if you're curious, or you can look at a thread I'm slowly updating that gives painstaking detail of my installation:
http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/index...pic=17043&st=0
If you're not willing to go to the extreme of cutting a full-sized hole (which is completely understandable), a ported enclosure is the one for you.
I researched capacitors a bit, and I came to the conclusion that they don't do a whole lot in lower-wattage applications. My amp is the JL Audio 500/5, which only sends 250 watts through the sub channel. So I decided not to put one in my system.
I agree that if you want rumbling bass, use a ported or bandpass enclosure. I used to be into that, but my personal preference has become sealed enclosures... I'm more focussed on SQ than volume. ISo that means that I have to mount my sub in the rear deck in order to get sufficient sound into the cabin. So I cut a 10" hole. Actually, I'm in the middle of re-doing my system right now and I decided to go install my sub in an infinite baffle configuration (i.e. the sub uses the trunk as an enclosure- there's no box). I won't go into the principles behind that. Google it if you're curious, or you can look at a thread I'm slowly updating that gives painstaking detail of my installation:
http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/index...pic=17043&st=0
If you're not willing to go to the extreme of cutting a full-sized hole (which is completely understandable), a ported enclosure is the one for you.
Last edited by Bigpete123; May 16, 2006 at 05:31 PM.
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From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
In my 190e i had 2 Alpine Type S 12's in sealed box with a mtx amp(300w or so) and it hit hard and lould. I also cut out the first aid kit and made a cover using screen door stuff(looks like another speaker cover). I'm more into sound quality so that worked good for me. Any of you guys experience rattle? Hopefully you use dynamat, but it still seems to rattle a bit in my 190. As far as subs go, i think i'll just be doing some research on those subs/amps you listed.
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From: Long Beach, Ca
lots of cars
Yeah, my benz does rattle here and there but it's because the c pillars are lose. I do need dynamat but since i used it all on my 69 mustang i didn't have enough left for my benz. I also used expanding foam where i couldn't get dynamat to fit. It's pretty cheap and i'll fill anything. Dynamat is expensive so im looking for buy fat mat from ebay. If you want SQ i would get something from focal, mb quart, diamond audio, adire, or resonant engineering. I get tons of bass because i removed my rear speakers and had the sub firing thru the hole i cut on the rear deck but it was louder and nicer pointing the sub towards the back.
Last edited by YNVDIZW124; May 16, 2006 at 09:27 PM.
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From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
Any reccomendations for Capasitor and amp kit brands? There are those cheap ones on ebay, but im thiknin those arnt very good. (dont wanna have expensive amp/sub and ****ty wires). Im thinkin Tsunami or Streetwires...maybe even Rockford?
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1997 E320
The kits are pretty much the same in my opinion. Just make sure the wires are oxygen free and the connectors are either gold or platinum plated. and use 4 gauge wires for power. To be honest with you I was looking in walmart a few days ago and they have a kit that comes with 4 gauge oxygen free wires, and all the other stuff for 25 bucks. I am going to reinstall my system and I will by this just because it's so cheap and it will do the job. for RCA's though order some monster cables online if you want better quality. If you don't mind spending around 100 bucks on wiring kits don't hesitate and get the good stuff. Lightening audio is one brand that sticks out in my mind right now but most known brands should be good.
I've never had a capacitor before so I wouldn't know what to recommend. In my 190E where I had my system cranking out 600 watts rms I only had dimming when I had the volume turned up all the way but I never felt the need for a capacitor. Our cars have big alternators that are highly capable. If you're running anything higher than 500-600 then it would be a good idea to add a cap.
so have you picked any amps or subs yet?
I've never had a capacitor before so I wouldn't know what to recommend. In my 190E where I had my system cranking out 600 watts rms I only had dimming when I had the volume turned up all the way but I never felt the need for a capacitor. Our cars have big alternators that are highly capable. If you're running anything higher than 500-600 then it would be a good idea to add a cap.
so have you picked any amps or subs yet?
Last edited by koskesh; May 19, 2006 at 08:28 PM.
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From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
koskesh,
Buying from Walmart? Boo for that. I'd rather pay $70 for a kit from Circuit City than buy from Walmart. Anyway, i've decided on going with the MTX TA3401 Amp and the T5515-44 Sub. For wires im thinking either Rockford or Tsunami (same prices) amp kits that have all i need, including shielded twisted RCA's. I'll be getting the Rockford 1Farad cap...I'd rather not risk putting extra strain on the alternator. All of this will be bought on Ebay to save $$.
Buying from Walmart? Boo for that. I'd rather pay $70 for a kit from Circuit City than buy from Walmart. Anyway, i've decided on going with the MTX TA3401 Amp and the T5515-44 Sub. For wires im thinking either Rockford or Tsunami (same prices) amp kits that have all i need, including shielded twisted RCA's. I'll be getting the Rockford 1Farad cap...I'd rather not risk putting extra strain on the alternator. All of this will be bought on Ebay to save $$.
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From: Denver,CO USA
"88 300CE- First Year Production
This was said before, if you don't think your getting enough bass, but have a decent enough setup, it comes down to a good box preferably vented/ported, sealed is clean but not loud and doesn't follow with an echo effect. I've only found ported to satisfy me when I have good subs and amp running at a lower ohm by being bridged.
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From: Long Beach, Ca
lots of cars
I built my box with a removable piece of wood where the port is so i can take it off whenver i want and have the best of both worlds. I like when it's sealed better because it sounds better and i don't need the attention. True the bass it's louder with a ported box but on a benz i think you should go with a sealed box. If you have a suv go with a ported enclosure all the way. Also make sure the port is tuned to the freg of the sub because if not it will sound like a overpowered free air sub. Just my opinion but you can do whatever you think sounds better. Just a suggestion.
The best mod you can do on a benz is the 143amp alternator swap so you can run your system at 14 volts. Your also going to have to upgrade your ground wires and alternator wiring.
The best mod you can do on a benz is the 143amp alternator swap so you can run your system at 14 volts. Your also going to have to upgrade your ground wires and alternator wiring.
Last edited by YNVDIZW124; May 22, 2006 at 08:17 PM.
