What should I look for with the m119?
12-07-2006, 10:06 AM
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What should I look for with the m119?
OK, I already searched for the answer, but all I found was the wiring harness issue. If I'm going to get a V8 I don't want to f@ck up and buy a lemon.
What do I look for with this engine?
What do I look for with this engine?
12-07-2006, 11:51 AM
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89 300TE, and 68 280sel
Wiring harness (2). there is the main wiring harness that supplies the electronics on the top side, but there is also the wiring that goes from the battery to the alternator that can fail too. Vaccum lines also go bad in the engine compartment because of the heat of that motor. Also the cap and rotors can be an "easy" fix and should be inspected, there are two, so double the cost. Have the timing chain inspected. The plug wires should be in good condition, I had an idle problem from a bad wire. Other than that, just regular maint. It is a beauty of a motor. I am green with envy.
Generally, if you buy such a car in TX you will be able to find one that has been maintained since people there who buy the cars have money. Look for one that has been kept up. Look in the valve cover to see if the oil has been changed regularly, that is a big deal with this motor due to it's rare construction. This motor is an aluminum block but it doesn't have steel cylinder sleeves. What MBZ did was to impregnate the aluminum with a silica crystal and then once the cylinders where bored, they would spray the surface with acid to remove some of the aluminum to expose the crystals in the material. This created the very hard surface that would become the wear surface in the cylinder walls, and it also acted like the honed surface of your typical steel sleeve as it created a surface tension for the oil to stick to helping aid in lubrication... very clever. BMW had big big problems with their alum. v8's of the day and had major recalls to rebuild the motors and put steel sleeves in them. But the m119 has no such issues if they are maintained
. SO make sure it has had regular oil chnages.
I just found this article, haven't read it all....
http://www.500ecstasy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73
Generally, if you buy such a car in TX you will be able to find one that has been maintained since people there who buy the cars have money. Look for one that has been kept up. Look in the valve cover to see if the oil has been changed regularly, that is a big deal with this motor due to it's rare construction. This motor is an aluminum block but it doesn't have steel cylinder sleeves. What MBZ did was to impregnate the aluminum with a silica crystal and then once the cylinders where bored, they would spray the surface with acid to remove some of the aluminum to expose the crystals in the material. This created the very hard surface that would become the wear surface in the cylinder walls, and it also acted like the honed surface of your typical steel sleeve as it created a surface tension for the oil to stick to helping aid in lubrication... very clever. BMW had big big problems with their alum. v8's of the day and had major recalls to rebuild the motors and put steel sleeves in them. But the m119 has no such issues if they are maintained
. SO make sure it has had regular oil chnages.I just found this article, haven't read it all....
http://www.500ecstasy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73
Last edited by myfirstbenz; 12-07-2006 at 12:05 PM.
12-07-2006, 12:02 PM
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Your supposed to replace the timing chain at 140-200 thousand miles. My mechanic told me to just ignore that and keep on driving. One of his current customers is at 250k aprox on his original timing chain.
With the V8s its everything but the engine really. They go through most of the other components more quickly. The brake pads are too thin and will only last 15-30 thousand miles. Check the rear links, thrust bars etc. Check the bushings. If possible go for a 94 or 95. As with any W124 the later ones have more reliable evaporators.
With the V8s its everything but the engine really. They go through most of the other components more quickly. The brake pads are too thin and will only last 15-30 thousand miles. Check the rear links, thrust bars etc. Check the bushings. If possible go for a 94 or 95. As with any W124 the later ones have more reliable evaporators.
Last edited by Eliot; 12-07-2006 at 12:16 PM.
12-07-2006, 12:07 PM
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89 300TE, and 68 280sel
^^^ I would change it sooner rather than... well changing a motor. I do my own work, just changed my chain over thxgvng, but I can only imagine it is a few hundred bux, and the motor will run a lot better. I am a paranoid benz owner, if I know something needs fixing, it is always at the front of my mind, since getting stranded or doing a major repair because of neglect is a big pet peeve.
12-07-2006, 02:49 PM
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'11 S550 4Matic, '12 SL63 AMG, '13 ML350, '16 AMG GT-S Ed. 1,'03 Ford F-250
I am on my 5th 124 V8 and everything listed thusfar is true, however I have never had a problem with any wiring harness, maybe just lucky. That being said, the least mileage I've had is 113,000+ on a '92 400E and 350,000+ on another. My current '92 400E has 217,000+ and I just changed the timing chain and in my opinion is the most important thing to check. You will begin hearing a slapping noise at start up...that is when I schedule a timing chain replacement...I've done two of the five V8's I've owned.
If they are not driven for a while you may get lifter rattle at start up. Not sure what the fix is here and someone here will surely know. Never seems to be a problem...mine are always driven!
I have also gotten the "hardened" vacuum lines form the amount of heat under the hood and that is an easy, cheap fix. My current fan clutch is shot and I will replace in the spring..about $1,000 fix if I decide to keep it. There is also a short power steering pump hose that will eventually leak. The hose is cheap but you have to remove the pump to replace it at a moderate cost.
The transmissions in this car seems bullet proof. I have never had tranny problems on any 124 V8. My current 400E had a funky reverse problem and my mechanic tore the tranny apart to find a small particle, no idea what it was or where it came from, that was preventing the tranny from going into reverse. He said it was a fluke thing, and the tranny looked great inside and it has never happened again. Mine does make the clunking sound shifting from first to second gear, but it has done it for 200,000+ miles and has not caused any problems. Only noticeable infrequently.
Other than that most everything is regular maintenance you would experience from any other vehicle. O2 sensors, suspension parts etc. Every time I look into a more contemporary MB I realize how much I miss the build quality of the 124...the reason I started buying Mercedes Benz products. Nothing seems as solid as the older models.
If I do decide to get another 124 V8, I think I will buy the Sportline suspension immediately, which is a huge improvement without sacrificing ride quality. Great car, just tough finding them without an excessive amount of miles. Of all the used ones I've purchased, it seems to take a few thousand miles to get them where I want them to be mechanically. Buy them right, allow yourself a few thousand dollars in immediate repairs so you know how they are mechanically.
Great car and good luck in your search!
If they are not driven for a while you may get lifter rattle at start up. Not sure what the fix is here and someone here will surely know. Never seems to be a problem...mine are always driven!
I have also gotten the "hardened" vacuum lines form the amount of heat under the hood and that is an easy, cheap fix. My current fan clutch is shot and I will replace in the spring..about $1,000 fix if I decide to keep it. There is also a short power steering pump hose that will eventually leak. The hose is cheap but you have to remove the pump to replace it at a moderate cost.
The transmissions in this car seems bullet proof. I have never had tranny problems on any 124 V8. My current 400E had a funky reverse problem and my mechanic tore the tranny apart to find a small particle, no idea what it was or where it came from, that was preventing the tranny from going into reverse. He said it was a fluke thing, and the tranny looked great inside and it has never happened again. Mine does make the clunking sound shifting from first to second gear, but it has done it for 200,000+ miles and has not caused any problems. Only noticeable infrequently.
Other than that most everything is regular maintenance you would experience from any other vehicle. O2 sensors, suspension parts etc. Every time I look into a more contemporary MB I realize how much I miss the build quality of the 124...the reason I started buying Mercedes Benz products. Nothing seems as solid as the older models.
If I do decide to get another 124 V8, I think I will buy the Sportline suspension immediately, which is a huge improvement without sacrificing ride quality. Great car, just tough finding them without an excessive amount of miles. Of all the used ones I've purchased, it seems to take a few thousand miles to get them where I want them to be mechanically. Buy them right, allow yourself a few thousand dollars in immediate repairs so you know how they are mechanically.
Great car and good luck in your search!
12-07-2006, 03:20 PM
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As previously stated: Ensure that the engine has seen regular, frequent oil changes and preventative maintenance. Pay a premium for service/maintenance records if you have to.
Some people swear by synthetic oils and that it allows you longer oil change intervals. I call BS, personally, and say that the key is frequent and regular (3,000 - 4000 mile) oil changes regardless of whether the oil is synth or mineral. For the amount of oil I go through with 5 cars I just used Q-State. Besides, changing it as frequently as I do I don't believe that I'm going to get the benefit of synth anyways.
Timing chain: change it as soon as you start getting the cold-start rattle. Don't put it off since there is a tensioner in there.
Don't forget that the Sauber C9s used the M119 block. Mind you they had twin turbos, but still...
Other issues:
Suspension bushings: the rear bushings are basically consumable items. This is a result of the 5-link design. Not going to post the explanation or a dissertation on how the design works (i've done that in other forums, so it's out there if ppl want to look for it). Suffice it to say that they wear and should be replaced if you notice some weird handling characteristics from the rear axle.
Self Leveling Suspension: For cars equipped with SLS - if you notice an abnormal clunk coming from the rear suspension it's more than likely the nitrogen spheres/accumulators. Have them replaced.
Beyond that, maintenance and repairs should be in line with other W124s for body and chassis (except the 500E which has many models specific parts) and R129s (mostly) for powertrain.
Some people swear by synthetic oils and that it allows you longer oil change intervals. I call BS, personally, and say that the key is frequent and regular (3,000 - 4000 mile) oil changes regardless of whether the oil is synth or mineral. For the amount of oil I go through with 5 cars I just used Q-State. Besides, changing it as frequently as I do I don't believe that I'm going to get the benefit of synth anyways.
Timing chain: change it as soon as you start getting the cold-start rattle. Don't put it off since there is a tensioner in there.
Don't forget that the Sauber C9s used the M119 block. Mind you they had twin turbos, but still...
Other issues:
Suspension bushings: the rear bushings are basically consumable items. This is a result of the 5-link design. Not going to post the explanation or a dissertation on how the design works (i've done that in other forums, so it's out there if ppl want to look for it). Suffice it to say that they wear and should be replaced if you notice some weird handling characteristics from the rear axle.
Self Leveling Suspension: For cars equipped with SLS - if you notice an abnormal clunk coming from the rear suspension it's more than likely the nitrogen spheres/accumulators. Have them replaced.
Beyond that, maintenance and repairs should be in line with other W124s for body and chassis (except the 500E which has many models specific parts) and R129s (mostly) for powertrain.
Last edited by yhliem; 12-07-2006 at 03:25 PM.
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12-07-2006, 04:42 PM
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Dora the Explorer
So I found one near by for a decent price (Henry helped). It's a 95 420e with 122k miles.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/safety...ref=srl#vdptop
I called the guy and he said the following things are wrong with it:
1. He recently put a new battery in it and said that when the guy put it in, "something happened with a wire or something and the odometer stopped working". He said that it happened after his last oil change and that the oil change records back up the mileage, but what the heck would cause that?
2. The side vents blow hot "50% of the time". He said a mechanic told him it would cost $200-$400 to fix it, but isn't that a problem with the vacuum pods and doesn't that cost assloads because of labor removing the dash?
3. The hazard switch doesn't work
4. He doesn't know much about the car - he's selling it for his Mom because it attracts too much attention when they drive it to Mexico. He doesn't know if the harness has ever been replaced (he didn't know what it was, period).
He says the trans was rebuilt a year ago, along with the AC being fixed.
It sounds like he might even take $5300-$5500 because a dealer offered him that as a trade-in.
I haven't driven it yet, so who knows. It looks pretty good in the pics. What do you guys think?
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/safety...ref=srl#vdptop
I called the guy and he said the following things are wrong with it:
1. He recently put a new battery in it and said that when the guy put it in, "something happened with a wire or something and the odometer stopped working". He said that it happened after his last oil change and that the oil change records back up the mileage, but what the heck would cause that?
2. The side vents blow hot "50% of the time". He said a mechanic told him it would cost $200-$400 to fix it, but isn't that a problem with the vacuum pods and doesn't that cost assloads because of labor removing the dash?
3. The hazard switch doesn't work
4. He doesn't know much about the car - he's selling it for his Mom because it attracts too much attention when they drive it to Mexico. He doesn't know if the harness has ever been replaced (he didn't know what it was, period).
He says the trans was rebuilt a year ago, along with the AC being fixed.
It sounds like he might even take $5300-$5500 because a dealer offered him that as a trade-in.
I haven't driven it yet, so who knows. It looks pretty good in the pics. What do you guys think?
12-07-2006, 05:47 PM
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Looks good. I personally am not terribly fond of that interior color, but it's all up to you. From your description, it at least sounds good enough to take a look in person. You will definitely have a better idea of how well cared for it is once you kick the tires. I say it's worth a look!
12-07-2006, 08:35 PM
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W124's
So I found one near by for a decent price (Henry helped). It's a 95 420e with 122k miles.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/safety...ref=srl#vdptop
I called the guy and he said the following things are wrong with it:
1. He recently put a new battery in it and said that when the guy put it in, "something happened with a wire or something and the odometer stopped working". He said that it happened after his last oil change and that the oil change records back up the mileage, but what the heck would cause that?
2. The side vents blow hot "50% of the time". He said a mechanic told him it would cost $200-$400 to fix it, but isn't that a problem with the vacuum pods and doesn't that cost assloads because of labor removing the dash?
3. The hazard switch doesn't work
4. He doesn't know much about the car - he's selling it for his Mom because it attracts too much attention when they drive it to Mexico. He doesn't know if the harness has ever been replaced (he didn't know what it was, period).
He says the trans was rebuilt a year ago, along with the AC being fixed.
It sounds like he might even take $5300-$5500 because a dealer offered him that as a trade-in.
I haven't driven it yet, so who knows. It looks pretty good in the pics. What do you guys think?
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/safety...ref=srl#vdptop
I called the guy and he said the following things are wrong with it:
1. He recently put a new battery in it and said that when the guy put it in, "something happened with a wire or something and the odometer stopped working". He said that it happened after his last oil change and that the oil change records back up the mileage, but what the heck would cause that?
2. The side vents blow hot "50% of the time". He said a mechanic told him it would cost $200-$400 to fix it, but isn't that a problem with the vacuum pods and doesn't that cost assloads because of labor removing the dash?
3. The hazard switch doesn't work
4. He doesn't know much about the car - he's selling it for his Mom because it attracts too much attention when they drive it to Mexico. He doesn't know if the harness has ever been replaced (he didn't know what it was, period).
He says the trans was rebuilt a year ago, along with the AC being fixed.
It sounds like he might even take $5300-$5500 because a dealer offered him that as a trade-in.
I haven't driven it yet, so who knows. It looks pretty good in the pics. What do you guys think?
Just take it out for a day and get your own impression on it. As always collect the service histories and check them out. Have a mechanic check it out is obvious.
Anyways, Just don't get one with a black interior. It's bad enough you're trying to be a ***** like me. lol Now with the car!!!
