Timing resistor
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
Timing resistor
So i did a search on the subject of timing resistor, but didn’t find much detail for the M104 engine. Who knows about this minor modification that can be done? I've heard that it was put on the US models to compensate for Americans being cheap and using low octane. What do you guys know about this? Seems like a good modification if you run high octane.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
1989300CE(sold),1996Accord,02CBR954
So i did a search on the subject of timing resistor, but didn’t find much detail for the M104 engine. Who knows about this minor modification that can be done? I've heard that it was put on the US models to compensate for Americans being cheap and using low octane. What do you guys know about this? Seems like a good modification if you run high octane.
.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 32
From: Germany
'00 S320 W220, '98 A160 W168/ sold in 2005 '86 260 E W124 '90 260E W124
Hi BenzBro,
the resistor value is changing the ignition timing a little. It's not worth playing with it. If the gas qualitiy is varying you are fine with the factory setting. If you are swapping to premium only you can change the resistor setting towards "S" but the changes in fuel economy and performance are not convincing at all.
the resistor value is changing the ignition timing a little. It's not worth playing with it. If the gas qualitiy is varying you are fine with the factory setting. If you are swapping to premium only you can change the resistor setting towards "S" but the changes in fuel economy and performance are not convincing at all.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: Virginia
Range Rover Classic
Someone corresponded with (I believe) the Renntech engineers who said it wasn't about fuel grade. Instead the resistor is there to protect the catalyst and removing it could cause its early demise.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
1989300CE(sold),1996Accord,02CBR954
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
1989300CE(sold),1996Accord,02CBR954
I was just reading a thread on this resister on another site and someone actually said they were getting better gas milage.I might have to rethink things if I get better performance and gas milage.I might just give it a chance.How hard is it to get out, do I need tools? (sodering iron)or is it just plug and play?
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
1992 400E
I've never done this, and I don't plan to, but this is what you want to read if you're interested. It's a loooooong thread on Mercedesshop:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...ad.php?t=32224
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...ad.php?t=32224
Trending Topics
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
1989300CE(sold),1996Accord,02CBR954
I've never done this, and I don't plan to, but this is what you want to read if you're interested. It's a loooooong thread on Mercedesshop:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...ad.php?t=32224
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...ad.php?t=32224
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes Teases Updated EQS With Steer-By-Wire and a Yoke
Verdad Gallardo
8 Mercedes Models With Poor Reliability Records
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 32
From: Germany
'00 S320 W220, '98 A160 W168/ sold in 2005 '86 260 E W124 '90 260E W124
The European models have those resistors too. The so called "EZL" which is a selector of resistor value in 6 steps. Maybe the US-models have a soild resistor and you need to swap it????
For the European style no tools are required to change the timing. Just pull the plug and turn it step by step. One step is 6 degrees of timing change (if I'm not mistaken, don't hold me accountable for that)
For the European style no tools are required to change the timing. Just pull the plug and turn it step by step. One step is 6 degrees of timing change (if I'm not mistaken, don't hold me accountable for that)
Last edited by bamberger_1; Dec 15, 2006 at 10:12 AM.
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Houston,TX
2001 W208A
ok, took it out. located below brake resv, tie-wrapped to a/c hose.. markings just like pic. short drive showed no temp. diff., very slight improved throttle response at low - mid rpms, nothing noted at higher(+4000). it does seems to start better.....if thats the only improvement, it still might be worth it
i'll finish this tank with it out, looking real closely at the temp gauge. initial opinion----performance increase so slight it's not worth it, but, the starting improvement is good, and if the mpg improves & NO temp increase I'll keep it out, otherwise I'll put it back....will report in a day or two, when tank is finished and I can judge MPG....
i'll finish this tank with it out, looking real closely at the temp gauge. initial opinion----performance increase so slight it's not worth it, but, the starting improvement is good, and if the mpg improves & NO temp increase I'll keep it out, otherwise I'll put it back....will report in a day or two, when tank is finished and I can judge MPG....
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 4
From: Motor City
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
Even if you're not one of those cheap Americans, and always fill with premium, this device is useful to protect you from unscrupulous gas stations who fill regular in their underground premium tanks. And even the honest owners may have a mixup during delivery.
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Houston,TX
2001 W208A
while the cheats do exist, in Texas, the state conducts random testing, and when caught the fines wipe out a year of profits, and they are tested monthly for the next few years, so its really not worth it, and Chevron and Shell (probably the other majors too) yank the license from all the stations that the independant owns, so follow the tried and true formula...
1. buy from Major suppliers only, no Mom & Pop's, no Race-trac (that's spec.gas bought on spot market w/o any additives)
2. buy at HIGH-VOLUME stations, for fresh gas
3. if you can... but at company stations, due to strict testing and frequent tank sumping (less water/trash issues)
and 4. never buy when the tanker is there dumping a new load off, stir the junk up that settles at the bottom of the tank....
fortunately, there are many refineries here, so the distance from refiner, to distribution point, to station is shorter& the fuel is a bit fresher....(days old, not a few months!)
1. buy from Major suppliers only, no Mom & Pop's, no Race-trac (that's spec.gas bought on spot market w/o any additives)
2. buy at HIGH-VOLUME stations, for fresh gas
3. if you can... but at company stations, due to strict testing and frequent tank sumping (less water/trash issues)
and 4. never buy when the tanker is there dumping a new load off, stir the junk up that settles at the bottom of the tank....
fortunately, there are many refineries here, so the distance from refiner, to distribution point, to station is shorter& the fuel is a bit fresher....(days old, not a few months!)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,062
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
Dora the Explorer
So i did a search on the subject of timing resistor, but didn’t find much detail for the M104 engine. Who knows about this minor modification that can be done? I've heard that it was put on the US models to compensate for Americans being cheap and using low octane. What do you guys know about this? Seems like a good modification if you run high octane.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,062
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
Dora the Explorer
What the resistor does is advance (or was it retard) the timing. You could get different ohm ratings for different timing. On the M103 engine it was good for a hp or two. The M104 uses variable valve timing.
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Houston,TX
2001 W208A
confused?
, valve timing and ignition timing are seperate things...while the ign. timing will advance +6deg from reference, it will still respond to knock sensor and pre-set timing curve. valve timing is adjusted through other means, and is usually just a overlap duration variable for torque enhancement.
, valve timing and ignition timing are seperate things...while the ign. timing will advance +6deg from reference, it will still respond to knock sensor and pre-set timing curve. valve timing is adjusted through other means, and is usually just a overlap duration variable for torque enhancement.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,062
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
Dora the Explorer
confused? , valve timing and ignition timing are seperate things...while the ign. timing will advance +6deg from reference, it will still respond to knock sensor and pre-set timing curve. valve timing is adjusted through other means, and is usually just a overlap duration variable for torque enhancement.
, valve timing and ignition timing are seperate things...while the ign. timing will advance +6deg from reference, it will still respond to knock sensor and pre-set timing curve. valve timing is adjusted through other means, and is usually just a overlap duration variable for torque enhancement.It also has variable valve timing but that's got nothing to do with the ignition.
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 4
From: Motor City
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
Do the M103 engines lack knock sensors? This may explain why they have the timing resistor.
I don't see why a resistor would be needed if the engine (like the M104) has a knock sensor. After all, the function of the knock sensor is to set the timing on-the-fly to an optimal point just before knocking begins, depending on the gasoline (octane) running through the system.
I don't see why a resistor would be needed if the engine (like the M104) has a knock sensor. After all, the function of the knock sensor is to set the timing on-the-fly to an optimal point just before knocking begins, depending on the gasoline (octane) running through the system.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
1989300CE(sold),1996Accord,02CBR954
I yanked mine out today and Im very happy with the results.No huge power gains,it just seem much smoother and doesnt seem to labor like it did.Wish I wouldve done it earlier.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Washington
1990 300CE, 1984 190e 2.3 (sold)
Couldn't find the resistor on my 1990 300CE. I've heard that the computer senses type of fuel and makes the appropriate adjustment. Oh well, car is running great anyway.
I wish there was some definitive answer out there written in some reputable book or even a forum. Reading through the threads on this subject on mercedesshop, it seems like some see results, and others don't. No one really knows the best way to go. Hmm...
I wish there was some definitive answer out there written in some reputable book or even a forum. Reading through the threads on this subject on mercedesshop, it seems like some see results, and others don't. No one really knows the best way to go. Hmm...
ON SUSPENSION
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 124
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta, GA
Quite a few:)
MB literature states these Very conservative resistors were installed "in fear of poor fuel quality". And that running this resistor/timing map (it only effects timing below 2500 rpm) will cause decreased power and efficiency.
Ideally you want 10-12 degrees initial advance to get the most efficient burn.. These resistors set the timing around 3-4 degrees initial...ie, Far from ideal.
On all my CISE cars (103/117/116) I remove or fiddle w/ the R16 to get my 12 degrees initial..always helps down low
Jonathan
Ideally you want 10-12 degrees initial advance to get the most efficient burn.. These resistors set the timing around 3-4 degrees initial...ie, Far from ideal.
On all my CISE cars (103/117/116) I remove or fiddle w/ the R16 to get my 12 degrees initial..always helps down low
Jonathan
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
I pulled the resistor on my 300E (M103) and my fuel economy dropped a solid 10%. I put the resistor back in, and MPG went back to normal. There was no perceptible power gain with it removed.
My advice: Leave it alone. The placebo effect is hard at work here...
My advice: Leave it alone. The placebo effect is hard at work here...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
From: San Diego Californ-i-a
89 300TE, and 68 280sel
MB literature states these Very conservative resistors were installed "in fear of poor fuel quality". And that running this resistor/timing map (it only effects timing below 2500 rpm) will cause decreased power and efficiency.
Ideally you want 10-12 degrees initial advance to get the most efficient burn.. These resistors set the timing around 3-4 degrees initial...ie, Far from ideal.
On all my CISE cars (103/117/116) I remove or fiddle w/ the R16 to get my 12 degrees initial..always helps down low
Jonathan
Ideally you want 10-12 degrees initial advance to get the most efficient burn.. These resistors set the timing around 3-4 degrees initial...ie, Far from ideal.
On all my CISE cars (103/117/116) I remove or fiddle w/ the R16 to get my 12 degrees initial..always helps down low
Jonathan
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,062
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
Dora the Explorer
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
1989300CE(sold),1996Accord,02CBR954
Numbers dont lie...Im over 20miles over what I usually wouldve had in just a half tank.THe resistor is history!
Last edited by bjay51d; Dec 19, 2006 at 05:48 PM.
