gutmann

Anyone know if it would fit? A Japanese Mag says it fits and is good for W124 with lowered sus. The shape of the R129 mount suggests it would have an elevated upper mounting point than the original so I guess it would give full-length dampers a bit more travel before 'meeting' the bump stop. Any idea anyone?

jeffreyli86

Hey mate,
You from HK? I'm from HK as well! Good to see another W124 fan here.
I see that you drive a 300E-24. Is it the black one with Carlsson or Lorinser (forgot) rims, with an AA*8** plate? If so, I've seen your car before. Very nice ride indeed.

Back to your question. I don't know.

gutmann

Nope mine's just an ordinary standard W124031 in ordinary blue color.

Makahveli

Any Answers?

gutmann

The R129 mount is also deployed in 4 matic models. Part # 124-320-0473. See attachments...

Anyone?

jeffreyli86

So does that mean we can use that for 124s?
I have H&R + Bilstein Sport. Would it benefit from that?
I kind of think my top mounts are on the way out anyway...

gutmann

Yes it would fit. What I'm not sure 'bout is whether it would free up some shock travel by raising the upper attachment point of the shock in relation to the coil spring. The doubt could be solved if anyone can provide a shot of the underside of the R129/4-matic top mount. Thanks!

bicylindrico

My first concern would be about raising your bump stop beyond the factory location. Are we sure the suspension should travel beyond the factory limits? Does this put components on a bind or allow components to interfere with another at full travel? Things like brake lines and bushings come to mind. If we could use these while extending the existing bump stop to retain the factory limits, then that would be an improvement.

gutmann

Thanks for the advice Bicylindrico. My car is not lowered to the extreme. Yours, and many others here seem to have lower front ride height than mine (See attached). This photo was taken with strut sitting firmly on the standard bump-stop (129 323 05 44). This is the ideal ride-height I want to have. Then after I have one "knot" removed from the bump stop the front sits about 0.5" lower and the top of the strut body is barely touching with the shortened bump stop. I'm gonna raise the ride height with thicker spring cup and change the bump-stop to the shorter sportline ones (124 323 06 44). The lack of travel really worries me quite a bit as the road condition in HK sucks, that I just want to explore ways to give an inch or so more reserve travel. Although the chassis of W124 is very rigid even in today's standard, I really don't feel good having roadshock transmitting directly to the body through struts crashing hard against the bump stops.

BTW what kind of struts (shocks) do you slammed W124s have?

jeffreyli86

Hello mate,
Nice car you have there. I have a JG plate W124, so say Hi to me when you see the car in my signature!! By the way, are those PZero Rossos on your ride? I have PZeros too!! But I only chose them because they have a rounded edge so it eliminates rubbing.

Back to your question mate. I'm not totally familiar with the part numbers you quoted but it seems that you are still on the stock shocks (i.e. equivalent to Bilstein B4?).

Excuse me for being frank but, you will benefit from a set of Bilstein Sports/Sprints (i.e. Bilstein B8).. I have them on my 124 and trust me, the ride is much smoother. The ride with lowered springs and stock shockers would be harsh and bouncy. It's far more comfortable with Bilstein Sports.

I see that you took that pic in NT. I travel there every week when I'm in Hong Kong so if you wish, you are very welcomed to take my car for a spin to try my suspension set up. With H&Rs, I have had no complaints from my GF. I would imagine Vogtlands to be of similar stiffness but the shocks really do make a difference. I know of a shop who will order Bilstein Sports for you. Not cheap, but at least not fake products like Sup*r GT.

On the other hand, if ride comfort is an important factor, why don't you give the Sachs Performance kit a go? They are in stock in a shop in Hong Kong (last time I checked). Please PM me for details.

I've attached pics of my car before, during and after the suspension job.

Makahveli

Well look at my avatar pic, what do you suggest for that drop? And after bilstein sports I'll admit the ride comfort was overated. It will never feel as good as it did stock. Does anyone wanna contest to that?

jeffreyli86

I will not disagree.
The ride quality has been compromised for sure. Hmm.. Let's put it this way. It's a lot better than most people would expect in a lowered car.
Given that he has Vogtland springs with no shock travel, I doubt his ride is anything smooth

No offence meant! Just my 2p!!!!

Makahveli

Yeah with all the comments you hear of upgrading shocks and springs, nothing usually can compare to the smooth feeling a stock setup gives. then again you would have to start all over from tire setup as well.

jeffreyli86

LOL. I honestly don't want to go back to wheels and suspension.
I've changed just so many sets of tires and two sets of rims just to stop it from rubbing.. It was a nightmare..
Funny thing is, my car rubs with 215/45/17 tires up front (those with a relatively square edge) whereas most of you don't seem to have that problem. I had to choose my tire with the first priority that it must have a rounded-edge..

Makahveli

Jeffrey are your fenders completely rolled?

jeffreyli86

No mate. Not at all. I've been tempting to do that before when my new tires rubbed, but I held back as I didn't want to risk the paint. I had to get more rounded tires at the end.

Now that I'm thinking of getting a full respray done in the near future, I will be rolling the fenders just for the sake of it (getting more done at once with no risk).

Are those 18s on your car mate? You must've rolled the fenders?

Jeff

Makahveli

Yes they are 18's I had the same problem as you did and when I first dropped my car I had falken tires on it with the thick sidewall, but then I rolled them and all the problems went away.

gutmann

I have the bump stops removed yesterday and this is what I got right afterwards (even before the suspension settled). I replaced the original 8mm with the 23mm spring cups and still nothing can get through horizontally between the wheel arch and the top of front tyre. Can't say there is any sus. travel at all! It seems none of you pals here lowered with Vogtland have the same problem. I re-checked the part# (952025) and they just match with Vogtland's publications.

Along with the changes with the springs I now have a W124 that has:
Inner edge of front tyres meeting inner arches every 2-3 minutes on the road, more frequent on uneven roads;
Highly polished front fender inner edges;
Steering lock-to-lock reduced to about 2 turns, limited by the tyres and arches.

Strange thing is that the rears are just fine. It's just the front springs that seem unable to support the weight of the car and I don't have a V8 up front.

Perhaps I shall post a new thread regarding this new Vogtland finding?

jeffreyli86

That looks way too low for the fronts.
IMO it's definitely the springs not holding up. How's the ride height before the Vogtland springs?
If you are positive that the part number matches your car and not something like a E220, then I think you should get in touch with Vogtland. It's likely that you've got a lemon. The front is far far far far too low with the spring pads you have.

Where did you get your Vogtland springs from mate?

Makahveli

gutman first, what size tires are you running? And have you rolled your fenders yet? Tires on our cars can only be so wide when lowering.

shadowgriffen

but damn that looks like an accident waiting to happen!

Get those springs back to Vogt!

AMGDave

Help me out here - what are you trying to do with R129 upper strut mounts, or changing the stop buffers? The stop buffer is what limits the upward travel, so the wheel/tire doesn't slam into the fender well. There's an AMG spacer that is designed to add 20mm to the stop buffer effective length, when using larger-than-stock wheels/tires. Removing the buffer would be a very bad idea. Installing a shorter one is also not a good idea.

Drastically lowered ride heights look *****in' but are functionally a PITA. I've had 124's slammed before but I'm not doing that anymore. I just installed taller springs to increase my ride height. Measured from the center of the wheel to the bottom of the fender lip, my target height is 14.25". This allows decent road clearance while still being lower than stock (stock is typically closer to 15.0" with new springs & dampers.) I've had it down in the 13.0-13.5" range before and while it looked great, it wasn't worth the hassle.

Here's the AMG PDF file showing the location of the AMG spcaer ("spring travel limiter"), note item 5 on page 3:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...7x8.0_ET30.pdf

klehver

I believe that you'll find that what everyone is calling the 'bumpstops' may actually be auxilllary springs (MB/AMG calls them "PU Auxillary Springs" in the parts list).

They're designed to work with the main spring to provide a progressive spring rate near the limits of suspension travel. I doubt that they actually do much to limit suspension travel. AMG probably uses the "Compression Travel Limiting Washers" to keep a 17" wheel from blowing through the wheel well. You don't need limiting washers with 15'-16" wheels because the wheel isn't tall enough to hit the well at the limit, but you need the auxillary spring either way if you want your suspension to work right.

I'm also guessing that those ride height adjustment rubber pads come in handy to keep you from blowing a hole in your wheel well.

AMGDave

The stop buffers (aka 'bump stops') are not springs, but they do sort of create a progressive overall rate since things stiffen up considerably when the strut hits the stop buffer. They do indeed limit suspension travel - they are quite stiff when new (old ones can crumble and fall apart though).

The AMG spacer pictured above is not for larger diameter wheels, because the overall tire diameter remains the same. It is for WIDER wheels/tires, which will contact the fender lip and/or wheelwell near full compression and/or when the wheels are turned.

The rubber pads/shims for coil spring ride height adjustment are for just that - ride height adjustment. The thicker ones crush down over time, so I prefer to use a longer/taller spring with a thin pad, if possible. I have the 400E Sportline springs in my car up front with a 1-pt pad, which so far has been perfect for ride height. These only make slight adjustments, so if your car is too low, you're most likely going to need different springs to raise it up. BT, DT...

klehver

Bottom line is we agree.


He needs to put the bump stop back in. I also noticed he posted a thread about using the R129 upper strut mount.

Gutman, do you have W124 strut mounts or R129 strut mounts in your car?