Lowering problem with Vogtland...
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Enzo, my Benzo
What does common always have to do with best? Chevy Cavaliers are more common than Ferraris. So?
Eibach and H&R do not lower the car as much and some people want it lower. i have had Intrax on BOTH of my W124's with great success.
As for Bilstein, they, as well, are not the best. Konis are JUST as good and it's a fact.
Man, some people's boxes are small.
Eibach and H&R do not lower the car as much and some people want it lower. i have had Intrax on BOTH of my W124's with great success.
As for Bilstein, they, as well, are not the best. Konis are JUST as good and it's a fact.
Man, some people's boxes are small.
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
Maybe I am just too old to have a clue about what you are talking about with regard to boxes. Is that an insult of some kind? Cool dude! Enzo Benzo and all that stuff.
Last edited by ksing44; May 28, 2007 at 12:23 PM.
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Enzo, my Benzo
By boxes I meant what people choose to believe and try. It wasn't an insult, just punctuating my point:
"Bilstein shocks, however, are still a great choice and may in fact be the very best choice for a W124. "
Says who? You are making claims without any backup.
I am not trying to start a fight at all, just showing the narrow-mindedness of consumers with their product choices. What works for some, doesn't always work for everyone and just because one company's marketing and branding is stronger, that doesn't mean they offer better products. Brainwashing...that's all I'm talking about.
What I DIDN'T get is your last line about "Cool dude! Enzo Benzo and all that stuff. I want to make a movie!" Care to elaborate?
"Bilstein shocks, however, are still a great choice and may in fact be the very best choice for a W124. "
Says who? You are making claims without any backup.
I am not trying to start a fight at all, just showing the narrow-mindedness of consumers with their product choices. What works for some, doesn't always work for everyone and just because one company's marketing and branding is stronger, that doesn't mean they offer better products. Brainwashing...that's all I'm talking about.
What I DIDN'T get is your last line about "Cool dude! Enzo Benzo and all that stuff. I want to make a movie!" Care to elaborate?
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
By boxes I meant what people choose to believe and try. It wasn't an insult, just punctuating my point:
"Bilstein shocks, however, are still a great choice and may in fact be the very best choice for a W124. "
Says who? You are making claims without any backup.
I am not trying to start a fight at all, just showing the narrow-mindedness of consumers with their product choices. What works for some, doesn't always work for everyone and just because one company's marketing and branding is stronger, that doesn't mean they offer better products. Brainwashing...that's all I'm talking about.
"Bilstein shocks, however, are still a great choice and may in fact be the very best choice for a W124. "
Says who? You are making claims without any backup.
I am not trying to start a fight at all, just showing the narrow-mindedness of consumers with their product choices. What works for some, doesn't always work for everyone and just because one company's marketing and branding is stronger, that doesn't mean they offer better products. Brainwashing...that's all I'm talking about.
Just being as silly as possible, because I thought the box thing was nonsense.
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Enzo, my Benzo
KSing,
You of all people should realize (being a mercedes owner) that businesses like MB and ALL profitable companies do not always make decisions based on quality. Costs are ALWAYS an issue and neither one of us know the reason why Koni or any other company didnt become an OEM supplier over Bilstein. Don't sit at your computer and tell me that I am wrong about MB cost cutting decisions, have you HEARD about the W210?
My box comment was warranted, I see. Come ON man, Bilsteins are the most common because they have a decent product, and good marketing, not because they are the BEST.
Speaking of nonsense, I am done arguing with you, it's like talking to a kid set on a certain toy....let's just agree to disagree.
You of all people should realize (being a mercedes owner) that businesses like MB and ALL profitable companies do not always make decisions based on quality. Costs are ALWAYS an issue and neither one of us know the reason why Koni or any other company didnt become an OEM supplier over Bilstein. Don't sit at your computer and tell me that I am wrong about MB cost cutting decisions, have you HEARD about the W210?
My box comment was warranted, I see. Come ON man, Bilsteins are the most common because they have a decent product, and good marketing, not because they are the BEST.
Speaking of nonsense, I am done arguing with you, it's like talking to a kid set on a certain toy....let's just agree to disagree.
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Frankly we can all argue about what's better, but unless we have had long-term experience with all of the products, we can only guess which is better.
I have only been in a stock W124 (mine) and a H&R/Bilstein-lowered W124 (mine). It's impossible for me to guess whether Intrax, Eibach, Vogtland, etc are better... same with shocks.
I have most definitely found that people on the forums who don't have direct experience with competing products almost always claim whatever they have is the best. It's silly. I'm always a fan of "loving the one you're with", but you can't make claims you can't support with experience.
I have only been in a stock W124 (mine) and a H&R/Bilstein-lowered W124 (mine). It's impossible for me to guess whether Intrax, Eibach, Vogtland, etc are better... same with shocks.
I have most definitely found that people on the forums who don't have direct experience with competing products almost always claim whatever they have is the best. It's silly. I'm always a fan of "loving the one you're with", but you can't make claims you can't support with experience.
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Enzo, my Benzo
I agree although I have had second hand experience with friends with the Bilstein/H&R/Eibach setups here in canada on their W124s and I have had 2 W124s with my current Intrax/Koni setup. Not just talking outta my butt here..
It's just goofy to claim one product is better based on a "norm" due to better marketing.
Ksing is a respectable member here with great posts, intelligent thoughts and I have nothing against him for the record.
It's just goofy to claim one product is better based on a "norm" due to better marketing.
Ksing is a respectable member here with great posts, intelligent thoughts and I have nothing against him for the record.
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
Frankly we can all argue about what's better, but unless we have had long-term experience with all of the products, we can only guess which is better.
I have only been in a stock W124 (mine) and a H&R/Bilstein-lowered W124 (mine). It's impossible for me to guess whether Intrax, Eibach, Vogtland, etc are better... same with shocks.
I have most definitely found that people on the forums who don't have direct experience with competing products almost always claim whatever they have is the best. It's silly. I'm always a fan of "loving the one you're with", but you can't make claims you can't support with experience.
I have only been in a stock W124 (mine) and a H&R/Bilstein-lowered W124 (mine). It's impossible for me to guess whether Intrax, Eibach, Vogtland, etc are better... same with shocks.
I have most definitely found that people on the forums who don't have direct experience with competing products almost always claim whatever they have is the best. It's silly. I'm always a fan of "loving the one you're with", but you can't make claims you can't support with experience.
This started with a guy in trouble. I still think his best option is to go with a set-up that has made many many W124 owners very satisfied. The most frequent success stories seem to be H&R with Bilstein followed by Eibach with Bilstein.
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I agree although I have had second hand experience with friends with the Bilstein/H&R/Eibach setups here in canada on their W124s and I have had 2 W124s with my current Intrax/Koni setup. Not just talking outta my butt here..
It's just goofy to claim one product is better based on a "norm" due to better marketing.
Ksing is a respectable member here with great posts, intelligent thoughts and I have nothing against him for the record.
It's just goofy to claim one product is better based on a "norm" due to better marketing.
Ksing is a respectable member here with great posts, intelligent thoughts and I have nothing against him for the record.
Too many variables come into play, especially on an older high mileage vehicle.
The only way one can determine the true effect of suspension modifications is on the track, by comparing lap times.
Other then proving with lap times any discussion of which is setup is best is purely subjective !
Some combinations of springs and shocks are more common and tend to be held up as the accepted "gold standard".
In reality it's a matter of preference and oft times economics on a street only vehicle
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I don't want to turn this into a love fest or anything, but I have to admit that you certainly know more about these cars than I do.
As for my end of this, I just felt sorry for the guy with the problem and thought he would be best served by going with something that had been used by many others.
Good luck gutmann, please let us know what you finally do for a solution.
As for my end of this, I just felt sorry for the guy with the problem and thought he would be best served by going with something that had been used by many others.
Good luck gutmann, please let us know what you finally do for a solution.
Last edited by ksing44; May 29, 2007 at 06:55 AM.
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From: Orange County, CA
W124's
I guess that's true... I have read about a LOT of people having trouble with extremely low ride hieght from Vogtlands, although they are almost all because of the V8 issue (vogtland not making a proper spring for the extra weight of the V8).
I don't know if a w124.031 is a V8 or not and I'm too lazy to search. But if it is, this is very common.
But Matt, you seem to have problems with the ride height and you have a 300, right?
I don't know if a w124.031 is a V8 or not and I'm too lazy to search. But if it is, this is very common.
But Matt, you seem to have problems with the ride height and you have a 300, right?
You guys have seen the drop on my car with the new Vogtland V8 springs and IMO it's a pretty good *** drop.
V8 owners won't have to suffer anymore since I have the last remaining sets of Vogtland W124 V8 Springs.
You guys will be getting them soon - Sorry for lagging on the whole set-up and what not. 
