gutmann

This is what I got after the bump-stops removed, leaving the car riding completely on the Vogtland springs.

What I have:
W124031 with 722.359 at around 1520kg
Bilstein V36-0361 front & B36-1385 rear dampers
Vogtland 952025 coil spring set
Front 23mm spring cup (original comes with 8mm)
Rear 13mm soring cup (original)
AMG 2-piece 7.5x17ET41 with P-Zero Rosso 205-50-17 (to retain same outer diameter with standard 195-65-15)

Check out more images I posted on thread regarding the R129 mounts for W124 as I am not allowed to post the same photo here for 2nd time. Or visit:

http://www.workstationw124.spaces.live.com

Can anyone tell if this is normal ride height for the springs from this brand? Or have I done something wrong to deserve this? Heartbreaking tyre scratching with fender lips AND inner wheel arches. Can't drive anymore until resolved.

jeffreyli86

No way that this is normal, as I've said in the other thread. I'm pretty sure you are right. You have no suspension travel. You have the tallest spring pad AFAIK and it should sit higher. I would imagine Vogtlands to be a tad lower than H&Rs. I have spring pad #3 on my car and my car still sits higher!
One thing though mate, why would it rub the fender lips? Your offset seems to be higher than the standard. I have ET35 or 37 (can't remember) 7.5 x 17 on the front of my car and they don't rub.. Perhaps you should put the bump stops back on?

ksing44

I’m sorry for you. I remember my frustration when I first saw my car sitting too low in the back with more than -3 camber when I lowered with Eibach springs and used 1-bump pads all around, based on advice from others on the forums. It seems you never know for sure what you are going to get when you lower the car. It is trial and error.

For me, I just had to change to 3-bump pads in the rear and install the K-MAC eccentric bushings. It sounds like you may have to try different springs, since you already have the largest spring pads. Don’t stack the pads! That cannot be the right solution. I think you did select a weird tire size, even though I’m sure that is not the problem. Most folks with 17” wheels go for 215/45/17 and some get away with 225/45/17, if they have the higher offset like you have. I am pretty sure that 215/45/17 is the recommended size with +2 wheels size on the W124.

The good news is that you can get it right with some changes. It may cost you, if you don’t do the work yourself, but you can get it right. If everything seems to be installed properly, including whatever you did with the bump stops, then I think you will just have to try different springs. The H&R springs seem to be the most widely used springs on the W124 and Eibach may be a close second. The Vogtlands seem to be a more recent phenomenon on these forums, although the guys that have them seem to love them.

H&R with Bilstein Sport Springs, 17” x 7.5 ET35 to ET42 wheels, and 215/45/17 or 225/45/17 tires are the most frequent recommendations I have seen. With ET41, you really should be able to fit the wider tires.

For the record, my set-up is Eibach ProKit springs, Bilstein HD shocks, K-MAC eccentric rear bushings, 1-bump front pads, 3-bump rear pads, 16” x 7.5” ET37 AMG Aero I wheels, and 205/55/16 tires. My car had 3-bump pads all around when stock and it sat up pretty darn high like a 4 x 4, compared to many other vehicles. From what I have seen, my 1995 seemed to sit much higher than the older W124s.

I do remember the horrible feeling, but at least it can be fixed.

Good luck!

RBYCC

H&R Sport springs, installed with the pads that the car was delivered with, Bilstein HD's and 225/40-18 on 18 x 8 ET35 AMG replica rims.
Precautionary slight trim to the wheel well portion of the side cladding and not a problem !!!!

If you're rubbing, then it's down too low, or your ET41 wheel offset is not correct.
The 41 versus the stock 35 will push you out about a 1/4"

shadowgriffen

Sexy wheels Gutman.

You may want to put the bump stops back on.

bicylindrico

This is my car with the Vogtlands installed. 4 bump pads up front and 1 bump in the rear. My car originally came with 2 front and rear and it sat extremely high stock. Overall I am very happy but admit I was worried when I first installed the springs.

ksing44

I believe that may be an incorrect statement. The higher offset moves the wheel in toward the suspension. My recollection is that ET42 provides the optimal clearance for the W124. ET35 seems to be the most common, but the guys with ET42 seem to be able to fit slightly wider tires without rubbing or modifying their fenders.

RBYCC

You are right, I stand corrected, it pushes you in about a 1/4".
Too wide of a tire must go somewhere, either toward the strut or the wheel lip, or both when turning.

Either way it modifies the wheel fit, and can cause interference which is obvious in the opening post.
There are practical limits to tire cross section that can be used on the W124 without doing sheet metal mods.
You should always try to stay as close as possible to the stock offset to limit stress on the suspension geometry.

Bigpete123

wait, sorry for the noob-like question. But he said the bump stops are removed. So I infer that the bump stops were removed because they were limiting the suspension travel (since the springs are way too low). Also, since you said that they are only resting on the springs now, I infer that the car was AT REST on the bump stops, right?

My understanding of bump stops is that they only actually stop wheel travel when you hit a really hard bump... they're there to keep your wheels from smacking into the tops (underside) of the fenders, no? Okay, now I'm up to speed.

My only guess is that you were given the wrong springs for your car. Did your car come with these springs, or did you have them installed? This is absolutely not normal. Ask for your money back and for your car to be returned to stock... go to a better shop that knows what they're doing and have them order you the correct springs. Sorry man, that sucks.

mgw_300e

True, bump stops keep the suspension from bottoming out. If the bump stops are increasing your ride height, then you have no suspension travel. Removing the bump stops means that your car may smack the top of the shocks into the chassis, but it shouldn't even remotely be part of the OP's problem.

My guess would be incorrect springs.

ptoro01

vogtland springs have very little travel paired with those shocks. I can push down maybe an inch with my 175 pounds. Very stiff. I had the same issues, install the amg fender spacer kit and get tires that are 215-45-17. Your tire is too tall which is why it rubs, the fender spacer will take care of your issue. Once the rubbing goes away, you will love the suspension

CDP

It's simple;

Change your spring pads.
Roll your fenders.

the offset is fine.
the tire size is fine.

you don't really need AMG Fender Spacers judging by your set up. Also, AMG Fender spacers are backordered or either NLA since Germany is not shipping them out anymore. I think I bought the last set...

raymond g-

late at night...WAG....

you didn't accidentally install the front springs in rear and vice versa, did you?

gutmann

Thankyou all for your comments guys!

Regarding the stiffness of Vogtland, the fronts are actually softer than the 16-year-old original springs. Original setting was actually quite hard (but not harsh) for my 300E-24 in MB's standard even it is not Sportline. (Anyone knows if M104.980 is massively heavier than the M104.992?) This makes me wonder if I had the parts for 4-cylinder models but all codes on box and springs are correct. I got my set from the sole distributor of Vogtland and Koni in HK, & I had already emailed Vogtland Deutscheland a few days ago but received no reply so far.

Regarding the wheel offset, I didn't seek for offset # smaller than +40. My car comes from factory with 6.5x15ET46, and back then the Sportline rims were of 7x15ET41. I am just sticking as close with the original sus. geometry as possible. When I plan on the tyre size, I was trying to have the narrowest tyre possible to minimize tyre rubbing with the fenders and minimal road-drag increase from original. What I have is not a common size, but it is closest in diameter with the 195-65-15. Also the Rosso I have is N3 spec, which has slightly stiffer sidewall and softer thread compound than standard Rosso, which should make up for the grip of 215-45s. (will verify this on HK's famous Route Twisk when all the pieces are put together right)

Regarding the ride height, I had never expected it would be so extreme as this. All the ride-height examples submitted here are well within my desired range, except mine!

Regarding the bump-stops, putting them back at this moment would only solve part of the problem but it would put extra stress (and body weight) to the body-metal around the sturt upper mountings which are only supposed to take up the road shocks filtered by the damper (strut). The utimate solution would be a set of "CORRECT" spring. I could have put the original springs back but the car would look weird with the AMG front spoiler at such ride height. I feel bad now as I just have it installed a month ago, didn't keep the original, and got this new one cracked at the lip that same day of bumpstop removal while backing out from the service bay!

Hey ChrisDPham, I already have the 23mm pads up front so if you have some 50mm+ pads for the front that can safely hold the spring in place please do let me know. :-P

So the car is staying home until the ultimate solution is ready to deploy. (Probably another set of front springs from other brand) Geez this is frustrating when budget is tight!

gutmann

Just received a reply from Vogtland Technik/ Produkt Management to adjust the ride height with the Spring Pads... (Well, they call it spring isolators)...

ksing44

Adjusting ride height with the spring pads is the common response, but that won’t help you if you already have the thickest 4-bump pads. If you don’t have 4-bump pads installed, then you are in good shape. You can just swap the pads, but I think I remember that you wrote that you already have the 23mm pads installed.

1-bump = 8mm
2-bump = 13mm
3-bump = 18mm
4-bump = 23mm

jeffreyli86

Twist... By any chance TMS in NT or SO in HK island?
I'm a frequent visitor to both, but not in the 124... Far too old for that by my liking!

Anyway, where did u get the Front AMG bumper? I've been searching everywhere in HK to find a set of genuine GenIIs...

Jeff

Bigpete123

What I don't understand is why you removed the bump stops.

Did you remove them because your suspension was bottoming out too easily? i.e. the bump stops were hitting when you went over bumps? Or was the suspension at rest ON the bump stops?

Like Matt said above, if your ride height dropped after you removed them, the logical conclusion is that your suspension is at rest on your bump stops. There's no way that Vogtland designed your springs to do that. So I think they most definitely are the wrong springs. Especially if it's that low on the largest spring pads...

The bump stop should never be removed...

Lorinser880

Sorry to hear about you situation. Was the height drop specified by the spring supplier? Wouldn't a trade-in to a lower drop be possible?

As for the tire rubbing, my bet would be on the tires since the wheel offset & width are correct. I have 17x8 ET44 with 225/45/17's all around, lowered 2 inches, no rubbing issues. Good luck.

mgw_300e

I'm having the same problem as the OP! My front end is slammed to the fkn ground even with a #4 pad!

I'm starting to think Vogtland FTL!!!!

CDP

more like Vogtland FTMFW.

you losers just don't know how to make them work right.

mgw_300e

you're right

I just pulled the old springs, installed the new springs, cried.

I should have pulled the old springs, installed the new springs, cast Chris' voodoo spring spell, danced a jig. It would have made all the difference.

ZorroAMG

Vogtland + many people with the same crappy result = MFL Chris. One proper fitting set of springs out of 3 is a little *****ty imo.

Get intrax and close this thread.

Bigpete123

I guess that's true... I have read about a LOT of people having trouble with extremely low ride hieght from Vogtlands, although they are almost all because of the V8 issue (vogtland not making a proper spring for the extra weight of the V8).

I don't know if a w124.031 is a V8 or not and I'm too lazy to search. But if it is, this is very common.

But Matt, you seem to have problems with the ride height and you have a 300, right?

ksing44

Intrax might be great and you may have a great car and great knowledge about the W124, but I am sure that H&R and Eibach are by far the most common set-ups for the W124. Back when I was more involved with trying to understand this for myself, there was even talk that Eibach actually made springs for AMG. I just can't imagine trying anything but H&R or Eibach, especially if I already had a problem trying some other spring manufacturer. The same thing goes for selecting shocks. Why try anything else, when 90% of the W124s are using Bilstein shocks?