Makahveli

As time has passed I thought that shocks possibly have a break in period but apparently they don't, they just wear-out. I passionately want my soft stock-feeling ride back. I still want my car lowered though, so my question is whats the lowest you can safely drop your car while still riding on stock comfy bilstein shocks? Must I go back to stock springs with no springs pad or what? Are HD shocks soft riding too? To sum it all up I don't want a comprimizing shock, I want my mercedes to feel like it suppose too again. And I know I'm not the only and first person to say this.

Garfunkle_W124

Get KYB's mang

E4///Turbo

if your car is as low as in those pics,,I don't think there is any shock in the world that will give you a decent ride...I have the sports and they ride nice even combined with the Eibachs that had my car lower in the rear the ride was still good on 18 inch wheels with 225/40/18 and 265/35/18.The heavy duty bils suck bigtime unless you spend most of your time cornering or on the track in my experience anyway.
Kyb's are softer but wear out pretty quick....

RBYCC

Most are firm believers that the Bilstein Sports are the only shock that should be used with lowering springs. Rationale is due to limited shock travel.

The HD's which, correct me if I'm wrong, have the same valving as the sports, but a longer travel which equates to a better ride quality for street and occasional competition events.

Lot of Porsches running with Bilstein HD's and H&R's.

I've gone with this set up as I will be street driving exclusively

Bigpete123

I agree with Coastline. I think what you're experiencing is caused by your springs. Your car appears to be extremely low. Shocks can make bumps harsher, but most of the initial impact is absorbed by the spring. Most of the shocks' work is in keeping the spring from rebounding out of control.

I did a quick google search and found this website, which explains the principles at work- it describes the differences between what shocks and springs do. The basic principle is that shock absorbers don't actually absorb the shock... they keep the spring from recoiling over and over.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/default....aqshocks01.htm

So I believe your harsh ride is due to your lowering springs. My car is on H&R's with Bilstein Sports and the ride is definitely stiffer... but it's totally manageable to me, but note that my ride isn't as low as yours...

Eibach springs or MB Sportline springs will give you a bit of a drop from stock, but are probably your best bet for getting a lowered suspension with more of a stock feel.

I'll say one more thing- I drove around on stock shocks with H&R's for over a year. Then I got the bilstein sports. The ride did not get harsher when I installed the Bilsteins. It just made it so that my car didn't bounce all over the place when I hit a bump.

raymond g-

am in agreement with RBYCC, for the most part. you've take a compliant,
plush suspension and chose to curtail travel. you've also replaced the lightly
valved shock and replaced with one which is designed to work roughly 10%
more firm.

okay, so you want your cush ride again...with the lower (limited travel) springs.
to some degree, these needs are running counter to their manufactured
design and characteristics.

sadly, shock and spring manufacturers do not make it consumer friendly when
you're out shopping. in my opinion, a composite chart would be available
showing relative spring rates (vs OEM), and shock dampening rates...both
compression as well as rebound. but these are hard to track down and
as I've experienced, may require repeated phone calls.

in my latest project, I found that Koni Sport (adjustable) shocks were valved
lighter than the Bilstein Sport. having dialable dampening on the Koni helped
to fine tune the ride more to my liking. tuning a suspension is not without
some degree of trepidation and gamble. each vehicle, how it's equipped, the
rim size, the ride desired, etc etc.....all skew the real answer as to how best
to select and combine the components. what works for one person doesn't
mean it works for another.

too bad we dont share the same model. i actually prefer the firmer ride,
albeit a bit more taunt in feel. I would have traded your Bilstein Sports
for my Koni Sport adjustables.

Chappy

As others have stated, there are many variables when attempting to obtain the desired suspension set up. Springs and dampers are what many people think of as a 'complete' suspension package....however, sway bars, bushings, wheels, tires, control arms and spring pads (even tire pressures) will also play a significant role in the final effects on handling.

Makahveli, did you keep your stock springs and dampers? Have you changed any other parts? Perhaps your +3 wheel/tire combo is also having a negative impact on your driving pleasure. As you have posted, you may want to go back to stock and start over.

The W124 is one of most picky cars when it comes to getting a solid, smooth ride...even whan using stock components. I've owned mine now for 12 years and have seen post after post about these type of suspension woes....

RBYCC

You bring up a very important point that most don't consider which is the "spring rate"

A spring that lowers a vehicle is usually progressively wound whereas a stock spring is linear wound. The progressive has different characteristics during operation as it is wound "tighter" toward the top. Depending on the rate the compression/travel will vary.
Possible that the OP had a sloppy lowering spring that allowed the shorter travel Bilstein Sports to constanly try to over reach their limit?
Both the sports and the HD's have the same valving (non-adjustable), with the sport having about 1" less travel then the HD.

This is from Rennsport, a Porsche tuner:

Stage I: Lowering Springs & Bilstein HD Shocks

This is a simple, but very effective change to H&R Sport Springs that are compatible with the Factory shock valving. This will lower your 993 to the European Carrera RS ride that is approximately 1 ½" lower than USA-spec cars. This firms the ride up without being uncomfortable and really makes the car feel much tighter in lane changes as well as being more stable when driven quickly. This is about ½" lower than the Factory Euro M030 kit and slightly stiffer. Bilstein shocks replace the short-lived OEM Monroes and match the H&R springs very nicely.

Makahveli

Yes all of my stock things are still in the garage. The wheels I'm running are the same ones I had when I first bought the car and since buying a tire just a tad-bit bigger the ride got somewhat softer. And that sig pic is about a year old. Since then I lifted the front and back cause it really wasn't bearable then. Matter in fact my rear is now higher than it was stock (due to snow tires with HD's in the rear) But to get back to the story most of the ride sensation as most of you know comes from the front. I have since then stacked bump 2 and 4 pads on top of one another and run 225/40r18 kumho's. The guys here who live in extreme climates can understand what I mean with the screwed up roads I drive on daily. So KYB's are my best bet? And I'm thinking of just running my stock springs with no pads- Will the sports still be usable in that setup?

Bigpete123

I've heard that KYB's are stiffer than bilstein sports.

I'm gonna stick to what I said before. I think it's your springs, not your shocks.

Chappy

How picky are you? Can you live with the current setup?

If I was making the choice, I would return it to stock (to see if you like the ride or not), then make some choices.

(1) If you lower, you will need to change dampers.
(2) Use quality springs and dampers.
(3) Consider upgrading sway bars and bushings
(4) Consider a less aggressive wheel/tire combo

Good luck on your choices.

Bigpete123

another thing I'd like to mention... Adding spring pads won't change the spring rate. In other words, if you have raised the rear of your car to near-stock hieght, but you're using the lowering springs, the bumps are gonna be just has harsh. Your car is just going to sit higher. Make sense?

I think if you want a lowered look but a stock feel, and you don't want to spend anymore money on parts, you're right. Try putting in the stock springs without any pads. The car is gonna sit higher and look funny with your 18's, but your ride will be more comfortable. If I had to guess, I would say you'd have to swap back to the stock dampers though. If all else fails and you want the car to be lower but not significantly lower than stock, get sportline springs...

The thing that sucks about tinkering with your setup in this way is that you will have to keep getting your alignment done... and that will get expensive.

Chappy

Sportline Springs (OE) - not the "Sportline" kit that is/was sold aftermarket. If you get Sportline Springs, you should get the matching dampers.

TRUST ME....saving a couple hundred bucks by going with inferior parts will cost you much more in aggravation and time than the little bit of money saving going in. Do it right one time, then you're happy!

Sorry you don't live closer....I'd let you check the suspension on my CE prior to making any other changes. I've got the full sportline setup on my 300CE (except steering box).

Makahveli

Wow, and to think I was just in atlanta last month, thinking about moving there. So do any of you guys have suggestions on finding the sportline springs? Are they the same spring rate as stock? Will it be a pain to atleast get my front springs cut about an inch or so?

McBear

I agree with the recommendation of going with the MB Sportline setup. You can get all of the parts direct from Mercedes. It lowers the car, provides a firmer, yet very compliant [comfortable] ride and the spring/shock/sway setup was designed together by Mercedes to work as a system.

I have also found that moving up to 18" roughs up the ride a bit in the 124 and if the rest of the setup is not fully balanced [i.e. a stock Sportline or 500E suspension - or a known H&R/Bilstein setup] the short sidewalls of anything less than Michelin Pilots just exacerbates the problem. I run Kumho ASX on all my 124 cars but not above 17” which provides the best suspension and ride characteristics for that chassis. 200,000+ miles of W124 usage has shown 17” w/Sportline or 500E suspension to be the sweet spot.

Makahveli

So to give these shocks another try will the sports work fine with stock springs with no bump pads?

mgw_300e

I got mine done at NTB for $109 out-the-door, and that comes with 1 year unlimited alignments.

NTB FTW!!!!

uberwgn

I recently switched from Bil Sports to KONI externally adj Sports. Big improvement in ride quality. Far more "street-friendly" for those of us driving on frightful roads.

Bigpete123

Dude, I don't mean to be rude, but you are WAY underestimating how much engineering goes into springs. If you get sportline springs and cut them an inch, your ride will be worse than it is right now. I promise that.

You have to understand that the two things you want for your car- a significantly lowered look and stock ride comfort- are opposing forces. You cannot have them both. A move in either direction will cause compromise.

If you want a more comfortable ride, you will need to get longer and higher quality springs... Perhaps you could just go with no spring pads with the OEM sportline springs. Even then, your car is going to sit higher.

18" rims are also a huge compromise in ride quality. They are more responsive and you get more feedback (read: road noise and harshness).

To undo what you have done and to get closer to factory ride comfort, either you need to put your stock suspension and wheels/tires back on, or you're gonna have to buy lots of new parts. I hate to paint a bleak picture, but this is your situation.

TerryA

I CAN IMAGINE HOW MUCH YOU HATE THE WAY YOUR CAR RIDES w/ a 2" DROP AND 18" WHEELS. YOU ARE WAY OVER THE TOP IF YOU VALUE A GOOD RIDE IN A 300CE. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A REALLY BAD COMBINATION OF COMPONETS AND HAVE LEFT YOURSELF NO CUSHION ANYWHERE FOR RIDE COMFORT.

You would help yourself a lot if you changed the springs to H&Rs or Eibachs. This would raise the car to where the Bilstine sport shocks could be more effective. I think I would go to a 17" rim max on a 300CE chassie. Also you might check with BECKER(Spelling might not be right but somebody on this forum would know it. They are located in the N. or S. Carolina). If I remember correctly they had enginered sets of BOGE shocks & lowering springs.

When I owned my 86 300E I lowered it with Eibach Sport Springs. I used the #1 pads x 4 corners, 10MM I think. I also went +2 on the wheels (AMG Monoblocks 7-1/2"x17" - 35ET) My 1st set of tires were 225/45x17 Pirelli P5000 SuperSports.

Eibach told me that stock springs would work with the springs. So I went and bought a brand new set of stock shocks from Mercedes.

The results of all of this effort was that the car looked very cool but rode like crap. I thought I did everything right. It bobbed like a stagecoach and always hit hard up front on dips. My wife complained bitterly.

My fix took a year or so. First I replaced the new MBZ shocks with Koni Reds (Fronts can be adjusted with a removable ***) This helped a lot but did not fix everything. Eventually I replaced the the tires with a different brand and size. I went to a Yokahama 215/50x17 (More sidewall) which gave me a much better ride. I also had to bend the lips back on the front fenders to stop the rubbing but it worked. All of this correction took about a year. I spent a lot of time and money to make the ride acceptable to me.

Note I won't be lowering my 500E any more than factory stock. I have learned my lesson.

Good Luck (You will need it)

Take Care

RBYCC

Comments by McBear and Terry A should be well considered especially concerning tires and wheels.

Remember the tire is a crucial part of the suspension as it is essentially a "shock absorber".

Wider and larger diameter wheels add to unsprung weight.

I had 17's on my 300CE going back to 1992.
Not much available back then in performance tires in 17" except the Dunlop D40-M2.
Very narrow sidewall and a harsh noisy ride with stock springs and shocks.
Replaced them with Bridgestone RE910's, a slightly better ride quality.

As part of my twin turbo upgrade I went to 18 x 8 ET35 rims with 225/40-18 Falken FK452's.
The Falkens give exceptional ride quality and minimal noise for an 18" "luxury" performance tire.

Never considered lowering the car until the TT install, not for looks but for performance. went with the appropriate H&R sports, dropping less then an 1-1/2" and using Bilstein HD's.

I want the car to handle and be responsive, but not at the sacrifice of harsh ride and constant alignment problems

Makahveli

For all of you with Vogtland Springs do they have just about the same spring rate as the stock springs. From my understanding sounds like they do.

Chappy

Amen to that....

I wrote in an earlier post that W124s are picky. The suspension is designed to work as a system and has a small "range" for tolerance, without creating major issues. In other words, mixing and matching springs, dampers, wheels, tires, bushings and sway bars will only prove to frustrate and send you on an elusive hunt for the never-ending saga for the "right" setup.

McBear wrote: "I have also found that moving up to 18" roughs up the ride a bit in the 124 and if the rest of the setup is not fully balanced [i.e. a stock Sportline or 500E suspension - or a known H&R/Bilstein setup] the short sidewalls of anything less than Michelin Pilots just exacerbates the problem. I run Kumho ASX on all my 124 cars but not above 17” which provides the best suspension and ride characteristics for that chassis. 200,000+ miles of W124 usage has shown 17” w/Sportline or 500E suspension to be the sweet spot."

Bottom line: You buy crap parts and you'll get crap results.

ZorroAMG

My koni's have been great and my car is super low with 215 40 18's. I also run Intrax springs.

My advice: Get Konis and stay away from Vogtlands.

Makahveli

Hell-yeah Zorro