Getting a 300TE, have a few questions
10-23-2007, 07:45 PM
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1996 Volvo 850 Turbo Wagon, 1991 Nissan 240sx track car
Getting a 300TE, have a few questions
I'm from the Seattle area and I am on the prowl for a decent w124 300 or E320 wagon. I plan on using it as a daily driver but I do intend to do some basic suspension modifications along the lines of springs, decent shocks and sway bars, plus some subtle wheels.
I have seen a few write-ups on upgrading sway bars so I'm not concerned about that, and I am not too worried about having to do some work since I do have experience working on cars. However, as I have zero experience working on w124s, I have a few questions. I hope they aren't too simple or easy to answer.
My first question is concerning using lowering springs and dampers designed for general use on a 300e, etc. for use on the wagon. I have seen products, both springs and dampers, that indicate they will work on a CE and E, but leave TE off of the list. I have done some searching but couldn't come up with a definitive answer. Is this simply because they don't perceive a market for wagons or because of some physical difference keeping the wagon from using those parts?
Thats the main question, but I was also curious if there are any aftermarket differential options for this car?
I'm really looking forward to getting the car. There are a few local cars I am considering right now and I plan on making a decision and purchasing one within the month.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Rory
I have seen a few write-ups on upgrading sway bars so I'm not concerned about that, and I am not too worried about having to do some work since I do have experience working on cars. However, as I have zero experience working on w124s, I have a few questions. I hope they aren't too simple or easy to answer.
My first question is concerning using lowering springs and dampers designed for general use on a 300e, etc. for use on the wagon. I have seen products, both springs and dampers, that indicate they will work on a CE and E, but leave TE off of the list. I have done some searching but couldn't come up with a definitive answer. Is this simply because they don't perceive a market for wagons or because of some physical difference keeping the wagon from using those parts?
Thats the main question, but I was also curious if there are any aftermarket differential options for this car?
I'm really looking forward to getting the car. There are a few local cars I am considering right now and I plan on making a decision and purchasing one within the month.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Rory
10-24-2007, 12:49 AM
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89 300TE, and 68 280sel
I know you will love the TE, they are amazing. I don't know much personally about lowering, others will chime in on that TE subject. I think lowering a TE limits some of its practicality, but that is me.
Start on the suspension by checking bushings and bearings... install some good Bilstein HD shocks which you can use if you decide to lower it... but a 500E swaybar is a good start too. The first step is to have a good base to work from.
Show us some links of the TE's you are looking at.
I am looking to get a new diff for my TE, the 190 16 valve diffs fit, and have posi traction.
I also have parts from a 190 to do a stick shift conversion... oh lordy.
Start on the suspension by checking bushings and bearings... install some good Bilstein HD shocks which you can use if you decide to lower it... but a 500E swaybar is a good start too. The first step is to have a good base to work from.
Show us some links of the TE's you are looking at.
I am looking to get a new diff for my TE, the 190 16 valve diffs fit, and have posi traction.
I also have parts from a 190 to do a stick shift conversion... oh lordy.
Last edited by myfirstbenz; 10-24-2007 at 12:52 AM.
10-24-2007, 01:21 AM
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1996 Volvo 850 Turbo Wagon, 1991 Nissan 240sx track car
I'm not too worried about lowering it too much or past the point of practicality. Its just a cosmetic thing I want to do. Plus, at the moment my s13 240sx scrapes frame on speedbumps, one of several reasons I've decided i want a daily driver.
A manual conversion would be awesome, an automatic is something that I will have to get used to. I had considered a 190e, but decided that i would be too apt to modify it, particularly since my buddy has an awesome cosworth equipped 190e.(I forget the proper designation)
I will have to look at a 190e diff, thanks for the info. Do you know if there are any aftermarket clutch pack differentials for those pumpkins?
Thanks for the info.
I'll post up a couple links to what i've seen locally tonight or tomorrow.
A manual conversion would be awesome, an automatic is something that I will have to get used to. I had considered a 190e, but decided that i would be too apt to modify it, particularly since my buddy has an awesome cosworth equipped 190e.(I forget the proper designation)
I will have to look at a 190e diff, thanks for the info. Do you know if there are any aftermarket clutch pack differentials for those pumpkins?
Thanks for the info.
I'll post up a couple links to what i've seen locally tonight or tomorrow.
10-24-2007, 01:58 AM
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1996 Volvo 850 Turbo Wagon, 1991 Nissan 240sx track car
Ok, here are the cars that I plan on checkin out, this weekend if everything goes right.
Ideally I want a 93+, but I'm not super picky, just want a straight car with a good interior thats mechanically sound.
This looks clean from pics, decent price, though no mileage is provided. I can live with the white and beige interior, so its at the top on my list for now.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/car/457880792.html
Heres another use car lot car. It is a 93, but has higher mileage and is red, which i have very mixed feelings about. Its one that I will probably check out though.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/car/452080329.html
Heres a car in spokane, id call before driving or flying out there, its a 94, priced at $5500, but looks damn clean. I dislike the blue interior a lot, so i'm a bit disappointed about that but if the rest fall through I may consider it despite the interior and distance.
http://spokane.craigslist.org/car/448437459.html
There are a couple other seattle area TEs that are listed in craigslist but provide minimal info and no pictures, so until I call these are whats worth posting.
Any input?
Ideally I want a 93+, but I'm not super picky, just want a straight car with a good interior thats mechanically sound.
This looks clean from pics, decent price, though no mileage is provided. I can live with the white and beige interior, so its at the top on my list for now.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/car/457880792.html
Heres another use car lot car. It is a 93, but has higher mileage and is red, which i have very mixed feelings about. Its one that I will probably check out though.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/car/452080329.html
Heres a car in spokane, id call before driving or flying out there, its a 94, priced at $5500, but looks damn clean. I dislike the blue interior a lot, so i'm a bit disappointed about that but if the rest fall through I may consider it despite the interior and distance.
http://spokane.craigslist.org/car/448437459.html
There are a couple other seattle area TEs that are listed in craigslist but provide minimal info and no pictures, so until I call these are whats worth posting.
Any input?
10-24-2007, 07:39 AM
#5
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lowering ...
Wagons usually have self-leveling suspensions in the rear in the USA. There are a few lowering springs made for this condition, but not alot to choose from. Fronts most any spring for a 124 can be used (as long as its not for/from a 4-matic).
By just changing the spring pads, you could lose close to 3/4s an inch in the front and maybe a 1/2 inch in the rear if also you adjust the suspension level correctly. Yes, you would also want HD shocks up front. The rear hydro-struts usually are long lived, usually. Make sure you check the rear out on whatever car you want...a failed/failing system can be expensive and a PITA to fix, but when they are working up to snuff they are nice and easy to maintain.
Search mercedesshop.com archives for all sorts of technical info on the SLS (self-leveling suspensions). Trouble I had in finding a good wagon (I didn't and gave up and bought a cabby) was that they ALL pretty much wear/look very well; its the maintenance (or lack-of) that ruins any deal to be had.
By just changing the spring pads, you could lose close to 3/4s an inch in the front and maybe a 1/2 inch in the rear if also you adjust the suspension level correctly. Yes, you would also want HD shocks up front. The rear hydro-struts usually are long lived, usually. Make sure you check the rear out on whatever car you want...a failed/failing system can be expensive and a PITA to fix, but when they are working up to snuff they are nice and easy to maintain.
Search mercedesshop.com archives for all sorts of technical info on the SLS (self-leveling suspensions). Trouble I had in finding a good wagon (I didn't and gave up and bought a cabby) was that they ALL pretty much wear/look very well; its the maintenance (or lack-of) that ruins any deal to be had.
10-24-2007, 08:41 AM
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1996 W124 E320 Coupé, 1990 W124 300E twin turbo, 1991 W126 300 SE, 1984 Ford Capri 2.8i
10-24-2007, 09:50 AM
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Just to add what others have said.....make sure you have a thorough PPI done before purchase.
The Sportline Option for the W124 wagon was never offered in the states (just the sedan and coupe), but the parts can be ordered. I had the OE Sportline suspension (sway bars, dampers, springs, bushings) installed on my 300CE and was a really enjoyable improvement. Even after 5 years of daily use, the suspension held up very well. The car always felt very "planted".
I sold the CE this summer in favor of a '95 E320 Wagon which I'm slowly making changes to. First up is maintenance and repair.
Since picking the car up in late July, I've replaced both wiring harnesses (engine and starter), interior dome light assembly, new lower control arms and rear control bushings, changed fluids and played around with a few cosmetics - tinted windows, replaced the wheels and tires with staggered AMG Monoblock IIs, and had the car lowered. The car is well-suited for baby hauling and daily driver duties.
I've still got a fairly long list of things I want done - but will get to them as time (and money) permits. I've got a small exhaust leak b/w the muffler and cats, the sunroof opens but doesn't close, the blower motor fan was installed backwards (we believe), I'll upgrade the speakers to Rainbows, and then get serious about making some suspension improvements....all the while making sure the scheduled maintenance is performed on time. This doesn't include any necessary repairs that may come in between.
Whatever you do....if you want to play with the suspension, do not get a 4-matic.
The Sportline Option for the W124 wagon was never offered in the states (just the sedan and coupe), but the parts can be ordered. I had the OE Sportline suspension (sway bars, dampers, springs, bushings) installed on my 300CE and was a really enjoyable improvement. Even after 5 years of daily use, the suspension held up very well. The car always felt very "planted".
I sold the CE this summer in favor of a '95 E320 Wagon which I'm slowly making changes to. First up is maintenance and repair.
Since picking the car up in late July, I've replaced both wiring harnesses (engine and starter), interior dome light assembly, new lower control arms and rear control bushings, changed fluids and played around with a few cosmetics - tinted windows, replaced the wheels and tires with staggered AMG Monoblock IIs, and had the car lowered. The car is well-suited for baby hauling and daily driver duties.
I've still got a fairly long list of things I want done - but will get to them as time (and money) permits. I've got a small exhaust leak b/w the muffler and cats, the sunroof opens but doesn't close, the blower motor fan was installed backwards (we believe), I'll upgrade the speakers to Rainbows, and then get serious about making some suspension improvements....all the while making sure the scheduled maintenance is performed on time. This doesn't include any necessary repairs that may come in between.
Whatever you do....if you want to play with the suspension, do not get a 4-matic.
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10-24-2007, 11:52 AM
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is a German Tank
10-24-2007, 12:06 PM
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Actually, the climate control works on all speeds for both heat and a/c....it's just not pushing the air flow out at a very high rate.
Last edited by Chappy; 10-24-2007 at 12:19 PM.
10-24-2007, 12:17 PM
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hmm...lemme know what you uncover.
mine has been acting up lately and nly wants to turn on when the car is off and in position # 2, it's driving me nuts...
mine has been acting up lately and nly wants to turn on when the car is off and in position # 2, it's driving me nuts...
10-24-2007, 12:26 PM
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'01 W210 E320 CDI
1via; The last linky you posted has the nicest TE, however I'm curious about the blue interior. I thought these were only available overhere in Europe combined with a blue cloth interior. Does it have blue-leather? Also they list 'factory rims' but those are definetly aftermarket!
10-24-2007, 12:29 PM
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1via; The last linky you posted has the nicest TE, however I'm curious about the blue interior. I thought these were only available overhere in Europe combined with a blue cloth interior. Does it have blue-leather? Also they list 'factory rims' but those are definetly aftermarket!
straight from the factory) in order to contrast things a bit...I was thinking about doing black interior door panels but taking those things off ARE A PITA!
10-24-2007, 12:37 PM
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My car has an all blue interior, US Spec 1988300TE. Although I have (tastefully) replaced the blue sunvisors with black ones, black carpets, and black speaker mesh covers with black ones as well (they were painted blue straight from the factory) in order to contrast things a bit...I was thinking about doing black interior door panels but taking those things off ARE A PITA!
straight from the factory) in order to contrast things a bit...I was thinking about doing black interior door panels but taking those things off ARE A PITA!I like the white wagon best in the three listed, but an in-person inspection would reveal. I looked at several wagons before finding mine.
10-30-2007, 09:22 PM
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95' E320 Wagon (gave to father) 15' VW TDI Wagon, 05' X3, 97' F150, 99' Buell S3
Wagon suspension upgrade
I have a 95' Wagon US model. I understand that the wagons have heavier sway bars and stiffer bushings. It was recommended to me to replace the front springs and struts with OEM Sportline units from the same model year sedan. This lowers the front a bit. The rear can be lowered by carefully adjusting the self leveling unit attached to the rear sway bar. I did all this, and replaced the sway bar bushings with OEM. Up sized to 17" wheels as well. The car is exactly what I wanted. Not too harsh and doesn't wallow. This is a fairly inexpensive upgrade compared to a sedan.
10-31-2007, 09:52 AM
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I have a 95' Wagon US model. I understand that the wagons have heavier sway bars and stiffer bushings. It was recommended to me to replace the front springs and struts with OEM Sportline units from the same model year sedan. This lowers the front a bit. The rear can be lowered by carefully adjusting the self leveling unit attached to the rear sway bar. I did all this, and replaced the sway bar bushings with OEM. Up sized to 17" wheels as well. The car is exactly what I wanted. Not too harsh and doesn't wallow. This is a fairly inexpensive upgrade compared to a sedan.
It scared the crap out of me actually, to see the back of my car lifted a good 22 inches or so of the ground!
I bled the system and luckily for me it came back down, but now the right side of the car sits a few inches taller than the left side
Any hints???
10-31-2007, 10:09 AM
#16
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This is how I did my lowering in the rear with SLS on my 500E, should be the same for a wagon....find the connecting rod from the SLS to the sway bar near the right rear wheel. Take off the adjustable rod between the two and lengthen it about 3/4" then re-install it (you'll see how it works, its a turnbuckle type of set-up) this should give you about 1/2" of drop. Shortening the rod makes the car go up ! That is what you must have done maybe?
10-31-2007, 10:16 AM
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hmmm...that's really strange I'm still a bit by all this...
I'm going to have to show pix somehow...
see what I did was I basically move the rod back and forth a few times, so perhaps what I was doing was shortening it??
i guess I shouldnt mess with it if I DONT know what I'm doing
by all this...I'm going to have to show pix somehow...
see what I did was I basically move the rod back and forth a few times, so perhaps what I was doing was shortening it??
i guess I shouldnt mess with it if I DONT know what I'm doing
10-31-2007, 10:48 AM
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Hopefully I can explain further better for you....or maybe further confuse you. LOL
Yes, this adjustable rod, when as connected to the swaybar moves the lever on the SLS which in turn fills or emptys the 2 hydrualic cells with fluid therby 'pushing up' or 'lowering' the fluid in the struts (which are really just hydraulic pistons)...so when there is weight in your rear end, the rod that is connected to the swaybar moves the lever down on the SLS ; opening the flow of fluid causing the system to fill which raises the rears height. Adjusting the length of that adjustable rod in relation to the swaybar is what sets the ride height. Making it longer lowers the car and vice versa. Just moving the SLS lever actuates the system, yes, it doesn't permanently change the ride height; adjusting the length of the 'turn-buckle' connecting rod is what will change the ride height. Does this help?
There is a section on the MB W124 CDs from the factory that explains this system also. Let me see if I can find a link to it. Pix worth 1000 words they say right?
Yes, this adjustable rod, when as connected to the swaybar moves the lever on the SLS which in turn fills or emptys the 2 hydrualic cells with fluid therby 'pushing up' or 'lowering' the fluid in the struts (which are really just hydraulic pistons)...so when there is weight in your rear end, the rod that is connected to the swaybar moves the lever down on the SLS ; opening the flow of fluid causing the system to fill which raises the rears height. Adjusting the length of that adjustable rod in relation to the swaybar is what sets the ride height. Making it longer lowers the car and vice versa. Just moving the SLS lever actuates the system, yes, it doesn't permanently change the ride height; adjusting the length of the 'turn-buckle' connecting rod is what will change the ride height. Does this help?
There is a section on the MB W124 CDs from the factory that explains this system also. Let me see if I can find a link to it. Pix worth 1000 words they say right?
10-31-2007, 11:56 AM
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Hopefully I can explain further better for you....or maybe further confuse you. LOL
Yes, this adjustable rod, when as connected to the swaybar moves the lever on the SLS which in turn fills or emptys the 2 hydrualic cells with fluid therby 'pushing up' or 'lowering' the fluid in the struts (which are really just hydraulic pistons)...so when there is weight in your rear end, the rod that is connected to the swaybar moves the lever down on the SLS ; opening the flow of fluid causing the system to fill which raises the rears height. Adjusting the length of that adjustable rod in relation to the swaybar is what sets the ride height. Making it longer lowers the car and vice versa. Just moving the SLS lever actuates the system, yes, it doesn't permanently change the ride height; adjusting the length of the 'turn-buckle' connecting rod is what will change the ride height. Does this help?
There is a section on the MB W124 CDs from the factory that explains this system also. Let me see if I can find a link to it. Pix worth 1000 words they say right?
Yes, this adjustable rod, when as connected to the swaybar moves the lever on the SLS which in turn fills or emptys the 2 hydrualic cells with fluid therby 'pushing up' or 'lowering' the fluid in the struts (which are really just hydraulic pistons)...so when there is weight in your rear end, the rod that is connected to the swaybar moves the lever down on the SLS ; opening the flow of fluid causing the system to fill which raises the rears height. Adjusting the length of that adjustable rod in relation to the swaybar is what sets the ride height. Making it longer lowers the car and vice versa. Just moving the SLS lever actuates the system, yes, it doesn't permanently change the ride height; adjusting the length of the 'turn-buckle' connecting rod is what will change the ride height. Does this help?
There is a section on the MB W124 CDs from the factory that explains this system also. Let me see if I can find a link to it. Pix worth 1000 words they say right?
makes a hell-of-alot more sense now! Thank you so much Jim!
Pix would be awesome!!!!!
10-31-2007, 12:20 PM
#20
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You are welcome....
This is the rod that you need to take out, lengthen 3/4-1" to get approx 1/2" of lowering, then re-install...if you look under your car from behind the right rear wheel, you'll see this lil' sucker...one end is connected to the SLS valve, the other end will be connected to the swaybar. I think its like a 10mm and a 6mm wrench to get them off....not hard at all but clean the area off with brake cleaner...it will be easier.
Can't seem to find the W124 factory CD SLS section yet online, might have to get it from home CDs...or I'm sure someone else can unload/link to it for you.
This is the rod that you need to take out, lengthen 3/4-1" to get approx 1/2" of lowering, then re-install...if you look under your car from behind the right rear wheel, you'll see this lil' sucker...one end is connected to the SLS valve, the other end will be connected to the swaybar. I think its like a 10mm and a 6mm wrench to get them off....not hard at all but clean the area off with brake cleaner...it will be easier.
Can't seem to find the W124 factory CD SLS section yet online, might have to get it from home CDs...or I'm sure someone else can unload/link to it for you.
10-31-2007, 12:32 PM
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You are welcome....
This is the rod that you need to take out, lengthen 3/4-1" to get approx 1/2" of lowering, then re-install...if you look under your car from behind the right rear wheel, you'll see this lil' sucker...one end is connected to the SLS valve, the other end will be connected to the swaybar. I think its like a 10mm and a 6mm wrench to get them off....not hard at all but clean the area off with brake cleaner...it will be easier.
Can't seem to find the W124 factory CD SLS section yet online, might have to get it from home CDs...or I'm sure someone else can unload/link to it for you.
This is the rod that you need to take out, lengthen 3/4-1" to get approx 1/2" of lowering, then re-install...if you look under your car from behind the right rear wheel, you'll see this lil' sucker...one end is connected to the SLS valve, the other end will be connected to the swaybar. I think its like a 10mm and a 6mm wrench to get them off....not hard at all but clean the area off with brake cleaner...it will be easier.
Can't seem to find the W124 factory CD SLS section yet online, might have to get it from home CDs...or I'm sure someone else can unload/link to it for you.
So I guess I have to look for the link on the swaybar correct? to connect it back again right? that's really weird...
10-31-2007, 12:43 PM
#22
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Really? not connected? I guess that was why you were able to move the lever making your wagon a 4x4 ! When connected up you can't move the lever at all, obviuosly, when the car is under its load.
Just buy a new one from the dealer or WorldPac for about 30 $ ...it'll have the correct end bolts included...put on some loctite while you are at it. 5 minute install at most.
Yes, you should see where the top of the rod connects to the swaybar..if its still there !
When connected up you can't move the lever at all, obviuosly, when the car is under its load.Just buy a new one from the dealer or WorldPac for about 30 $ ...it'll have the correct end bolts included...put on some loctite while you are at it. 5 minute install at most.
Yes, you should see where the top of the rod connects to the swaybar..if its still there !
10-31-2007, 12:52 PM
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but what i'm reffering to is that my rod is connected to the "pump" I would assume? not the swaybar itself.
So you see it's sorta in the middle of the undercarriege of my car, not the swaybar.
does that make sense?
10-31-2007, 01:03 PM
#24
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Well, the SLS controller on my 500E is by the rear wheel...wagons are more in the middle of the car is what you are saying? I don't have a wagon , wish I did find one tho...the allroad I let my wife drive is too much power she says(chipped to 320hp).
Yes, I understand now that the rod is still present on your SLS lever controller but not connected to the swaybar. Your pix will explain it all I'm sure. Curious to see the swaybar and the connection point there if you can snap a shot of it.
Yes, I understand now that the rod is still present on your SLS lever controller but not connected to the swaybar. Your pix will explain it all I'm sure. Curious to see the swaybar and the connection point there if you can snap a shot of it.
