ballchain

I have an 87 260E that has what may be suspension issues. I'm posting here in hopes someone can help me pinpoint the problem.

When driving at any speed over about 30mph, if you make even a remotely evasive maneuver, the whole car rocks side to side for a bit, making me feel uneasy about the stability of the vehicle.

The faster you're going, the more noticeable it is. Mainly happens when changing lanes quickly. Feels like the car is going to end up losing traction and flying off the road.

Please advise!

shadowgriffen

there are too many things that can do that

1. Shocks
2. Springs
3. Swaybars

Suspension in General seems to be toast, have you replaced anything lately?

...,

NorCal124

Do the basics first. Check and make sure your tires are balanced and aligned. See if they need to be rotated too.

ballchain

Tires - Check
Balance and Rotate - Check
Suspension - Need to Check

I'm assuming from the responses, I have to trouble shoot each part one by one. I was hoping someone who has had a similar experience would be able to pinpoint the issue for me.

I guess I'll start with the shocks!


On a side note... I'm new to this board, and will probably asking MANY MANY questions because this 87 260E isn't a spring chicken, and needs to get back on it's feet. There's numerous things I'm going to have to fix, so one by one, I'll be hoping you all have some advice for me over the life of this project.. and maybe beyond!

1via

Check your rear self leveling system accumulators, this sounds exactly like what other people describe as the symptoms of bad accumulators.

berti_00

i found 3 sets of shocks they seem pretty good, if the case is shocks i might have to get a set too...

1- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCE...spagenameZWD1V

2- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCE...spagenameZWDVW

3- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MONRO...spagenameZWDVW

YNVDIZW124

I'm positive that it's one of the rear wheel bearings. Jack the car up and check that the wheels are not loose. If they check out it may be a weak shop but i doubt it. Get on a even surface and check the rear height of the car on each side.

ShoreBenz

Check all of the bushings.

berti_00

i was doing some research on this and came acrsos this post... looks like this dude was having the same problem and guess it has to do something with SLS wich i have no idea what that is

http://www.w124-036.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34653

YNVDIZW124

SLS = Self Leveling Suspension. This is something our cars don't have except for the TE and i think the newer ones. If your car is lowered and has a lot of camber there are very high chances that you will need rear wheel bearings some time in the next 4-5 years or less.

I did this 2 months ago but i changed both axles and while i was at it i also changed my rear flex disc.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/W1...0+15%3A13%3A54

1via

LOL
Since when does being lowered or having 'a lot' of camber affect the wear of wheel bearings?
I call BS on that.
Regardless, if your wheel bearings are bad, you will be able to feel the play in the bearing by grabbing the top of the wheel and trying to rock it towards you. If you are able to feel or hear any play (besides the tire) within the hub assembly, you should replace those. However, worn wheel bearings will not yield the symptoms you described.

What you described would seemingly point to a problem in damping, in which case I'd go out and get new dampers(struts/shocks), and figure out if you have SLS or not. I'm not well versed enough in this sort of thing to know if your sedan year came with it or not.
Springs, anti-sway bars, etc. aren't likely the cause, unless you have a broken endlink or some other failure(not worn bushings).

YNVDIZW124

I'll just answer that with your quote below.

I won't even try to explain this to you but, do you even own a 300e?

1via

Quoting me out of context and if I have a w124 has nothing to do with whether or not I know anything about wheel bearings.

I've done enough track day tech inspections on track prepped cars that run more static camber than any street driven w124 on here, to know that wear in wheel bearings(regardless of application) is not a function of amount of negative camber or how low your car is.

I'm in the process of purchasing an '89 300TE.

Thanks.

ZorroAMG

SLS is only on TE and 500E.

Suspension is a safety issue, do not take chances, let a qualified trustworthy indie mechanic assess the situation...

YNVDIZW124

Yes, it does. It means that you actually know what the suspension looks like and how it handles.

Wow, here comes the expert because you are a tech inspector and wants compare a TRACK PREPPED car to a w124.

You know having 18" wheels with a lot of negative camber on a w124 loads up the wheel bearings on the wheel carrier more than if i had 16" wheels with 0 camber. I would think this causes premature wear on the wheel carrier making the bearings loose. How do i know this? because I've changed these parts and I've seen how the bearings look like. No, these weren't original bearings either because they where replaced 2-3 years before. I also replaced my entire rear suspension because having bad bearings damaged one of my axles.

Just with Eibach springs and Bilstein HD shocks my camber is around -3.

You know what your right and i'm wrong...I've experience this problem but your the tech inspector with the "silvia" 240sx...righhht...

Please don't start bench racing...Seriously...

1via

Don't worry, bench racing never proved anything to anyone.

Maybe speaking broadly about cars not specific to this thread doesn't serve my argument very well, but I don't think that you can exclusively blame camber for premature bearing wear; there are all sorts of other factors that play into something like that.

Don't try to marginalize me as some fanboy who thinks I own a "jdm silvia." One reason I am purchasing a w124, aside from liking them, is so that I am able to have reliable daily transportation to school while finishing my roll cage, strip, stitch weld, and rewire my 240sx over the winter. I help organize and run grassroots auto-x and drifting events locally, so I do know a thing or two, by way of experience, if nothing else.

Insults aside, pissing contests on the internet don't prove much either, so I'd rather be civil. Sorry if I was a bit brash.

ballchain

Hey Guys,

I understand some of you are in a pissing contest about the answer to my question. Please... I'm not asking to hear the details of setting up suspension, I was just curious as to why this 1987 260E wobbles side to side when changing lanes quickly, or giving the steering wheel a quick jerk.

I understand the mechanics of vehicle suspension, and know what systems I should check to troubleshoot. I posted in this forum in hopes of finding someone who's had similar experience with the W124 chassis who could pinpoint my answer without me having to do too much troubleshooting.

I've raced both cars and motorcycles, built engines, race prepped vehicles, and more. I am not very familiar with Mercedes Benz suspension (it is notably different than a lot of other manufacturers although the basics remain the same). I'm just trying to save myself some time by posting here.

If anyone has experienced a similar situation, and found the culprit, I'd appreciate any knowledge they might lend me to aide my dilemna.

Again.....
Most notably at highway speeds, if you turn and then straighten the steering wheel in an aggressive manner, the vehicle rocks side to side (body roll) more than a vehicle should until it corrects itself.

My brain tells me to check bushings, shocks, and sway. The basics (easy stuff) has already been checked... tires, alignment, balance and rotate, etc. The stuff I'm not familiar with that is unique to Mercedes' approach to suspension setup is what I'm curious about.

If you can be of any assistance, I'd appreciate some help, otherwise, I'll just troubleshoot personally.

Thanks for your advice, and time.

1via

Sorry for disrupting your thread.

If you do solve the problem post up and let us know what it was, I'm interested in knowing what it turns out to be.

YNVDIZW124

Dude, you can disagree with me and it's all good maybe i'm wrong. You just came in here on your high horse calling my experiance with this BS. I mean come on, i'm just trying to help people here. I'm actually more of a hot rodder and build muscle cars from the ground up but that's for another forum. This car is just my daily driver. Anyways, I'll just leave it at that...

Well i've had this happend to me that's why im posting about it, BS or not. What you describe to me is how it felt when my wheel bearings went bad. I drove like this for around 6 months before i decided to change them. The alignment on the car was fine too but it would just feel loose on corners and when accelerating it would kinda jump side to side. It kinda feels like when you drag race a lose traction and you kinda have to pedal it or let off the gas.

I've broken the plastic sway bar link in the back and this would make it feel like you have extra body roll on one side. It doesn't snap your car from side to side like a wheel bearing does.

Right now i have a problem with one of my rear shocks. It's lower than the other side because the weight of my sound system was off center, putting all the weight on the shock. I now have extra body roll on that side and it doesn't rebound like the other side, new shocks should fix it. I've had experiance with this on another 300e and i've also had a 230E and a 190e.

Does the car tend to only sway/jump to one direction?

shadowgriffen

I can attest to that.

I had the car fully inspected before I bought it God knows how long ago, and everything was tip-top! Bearings, axles, flex disks, you name it -it was good!

well I lowered the car, got 225/55/16's and rode off!

Next thing you know (bout 4 months after) I needed Bearings! The mechanic and I both had a look of disbelief at the fact that everything had been good a couple of months back, and we both speculated it had been due to the increase in rim size+tire+camber that played a role in premature bearing wear!

No fun!

ballchain

The vehicle is 100% factory stock. No aftermarket wheels, no lowering springs.

It rocks seemingly equal on both sides. A large movement will cause a wide rock, followed by a narrower rock, and on and on until the vehicle corrects itself.

I am now thinking it's the shocks. It sat for many months, prior to which, it worked fine. After fixing it up and driving it again, the problem was instantly noticeable.

Perhaps a better description would be...

It acts as if the shocks aren't there, or extremely weak, and the whole car is floating on the springs. When you interact with the suspension by making sudden movements, you end up with a real cushy, springy sort of rocking.

Thanks again for your assistance in this matter.

ZorroAMG

With 20yr old suspension components.

No wonder it wobbles, a complete overhaul of shocks, springs, sway bars, bushings, ball joints etc should be in order.

YNVDIZW124

He's right, you have stock sachs shocks and springs which are pretty soft. I would change to bilstein HD shocks right away and maybe a harder spring if you want to take corners faster.

I have a 1979 lincoln continental and that thing moves like your riding on a cloud but it's meant to be like that. Our cars are also meant to be the same way for a smooth ride and comfort. If you want a tight suspension i would replace what zorro just mentioned.