Saijin_Naib

My dad has sold both MB and Lexus, and he would tell you one thing. Lexus have less "issues" than the current gen of Benz. But its plain to see that their safety is not all its made up to be. Some of the stock photos for the new LS show a kink in the A pillar above the drivers side door in the offset front impact, a HORRIBLE thing for the frame to do in an impact. Even the ****ty w210 didnt do that.

From my perspective, If I wanted a Toyota, Id buy a Toyota. No point paying 20k more for a friggin badge. My w124 is giving me ****. Right now, its garage bound because a 500$ part just crapped out and Im not sure if its worth 1/4 the cars value to fix it. But do you know what? I love this car. Everything feels right about it when its being driven, and I can deal with the crap it gives me because I know I am safe inside, and NO car has the airy and commanding feel this car has. Id never give any other car this consideration and commitment, because they just dont call for it.

/rant

shdoug

Toyota does not make a rear-drive sedan. There is no Toyota you can buy that uses the same drive train and platform as the LS400. Yes, the ES is a modified Camry. But Lexus <> Toyota. There are many differences throughout.

$1.99 in repairs in 14 years? Case closed.

bjay51d

This is from a craigslist ad of one of our member trying to sell his ce:

(Excellent Repair Records – I have nearly $30,000 in receipts!
Price: $7,000.00 – reduced to $6,100.00

I am reluctantly putting up for sale my daily driver 300CE that I’ve owned since I purchased the car from Atlanta Classic Cars in October 1995, with Starmark Warranty. The car had 70,000 miles when I purchased it 12 years ago and now has approximately 221,000.)

$30000. in receipt bills...

shdoug

That's almost 20 cents per mile in repair costs. So, for a casual driver who puts 10,000 miles a year on his car that's $2,000 per year. Wow. Very high dollar car. I will soon be able to afford one of these again due to a career move, but I'm not sure I want to. It's a difficult decision. What did you replace yours with, BJay?

Arnie

Oh boy, did I just kick a holy cow by starting this thread!

Sorry I did not mean to make some of you mad, I am just venting here. I wish MBZ would get off their butt 15 years ago with their "We Are Gods" attitude and put their minds to work. I drive a '94 E320. That was 10-years old technology the day it rolled off the assembly plant, because W124 car were in production since 1985 with few cosmetical changes and slightly changed in 1993 engine. Yet it was still plagued by old problems.

MBZ was not and is not willing to admit that their quality today is worse than that ot Kia and Hyundai. As fars ar crash safety, that's about #47 on my priority list. For some reason I am not worried about a kink in the A pillar above the drivers side door in the offset front impact as much as I do about resale value and quality. I want to drive my car instead of just admiring it when it sits in my garage waiting for a $500 part.

And for those of you who suggest I shut up, I did not know that only MBZ a$$ kissing is allowed here.

bjay51d

I actually bought the benz to replace my honda accord that had close to 200,000 miles.the benz only had 120k I alway heard w124 run forever so i jumped on it.I really loved my benz, but maintenance cost and the worry of the next big bang forced me to keep the honda.

shdoug

Yeah, I think you hit a nerve, Arnie. Not exactly a free speech, all comments welcome sort of place. The last guy who was talking along these lines was bullied off the forum. He had bought his '94 E320 brand new and it was plaguing him with the usual stuff.

You have to realize where a lot of people are coming from. Being 43, you have priorities in your life and are past the "My car is my life" stage that we all go through when we're 19. There's nothing wrong with loving your car, but there comes a time when we just want the thing to stop owning us so we can do other things too.

I will always love cars, but having a wife and a son is a bit of a demand on my time that keeps me out of the garage.

This is an entertaining thread, though.

Bigpete123

man, I'm depressed!

There are more mercedes haters on this forum than mercedes lovers...

We can all get heated about whether mercedes or lexus are better. But it really depends on your personal priorities. Me for example. I've had my 300ce for 4 years. The first 3 years, all I could think about was my car. Thinking about fixing it, modding it, etc. When I drove it around town, I was proud. Yesterday we had some friends in the car, and I got the questions/responses I usually get:
"How old is this car?"
"17yrs old"
"What?!? How many miles?" "200k"
"WOW! This car looks way newer than that! I would've guessed it was 5 years old!"

And my virtual wiener grew about 2 inches.

But over time, after a list of maybe 50-75 things that have gone wrong/required fixing and about $15k+, I'm getting pretty sick of it. The excitement has worn off, and I no longer care as much about looking cool in my car... lol. I also got married and now have another person I'm financially accountable to. And that definitely changed my priorities.

So for me, it's partly the fact that a car that I assumed would be essentially maintanence free has been far from such, and it's partly that my perspective on cars has changed as my financial priorities have changed.

So at my stage, I would be completely happy in a Honda Accord. It would be an "appliance car" to steal the term from myfirstbenz. The right/wrong aspect of a car purchase decision is always unique to the purchaser's situation. A purchase is right if it meets the needs and expectations of the buyer.

Bottom line, this thread is an interesting read, but most everyone's arguments dont' stick since it's all relative!

cap'n jasper

I think you mean a superb bland of styling.

I actually really like Lexus and although the exterior styling is sort-of getting there, the interiors are still awful. If only Mercedes could have Lexus reliability.
The new S-Class is a stunning looking car but I don't know if I'll want to own one once they're 10 years old.

STLe320

*****...i get my repairs done for free...so i'm not complaining.

myfirstbenz

Tell me that all mercedes dealers are owned my the parent company and I will allow you to use the argument that crappy service = crapy car experience. There are more than a handful of dealers in this country and if you sit back and take shiat, then you are likely to keep getting it. And to the people that have $30,000 in receipts... well that is just stupid. If a car is taken care of, respected, and well maintained, there is no reason that a person should have to spend that much money on a car, unless it is a jaguar or alfa romeo. It is almost as if people are bragging on how much they have spent, when in reality they are showing how much of a fool they are.

I do my own service and spend no more on parts than I would a lexus or honda, so I feel very comfortable with my maintenance budget. There is also something to be said for a car that has a soul. You cannot tell me that stepping into an LS gives you the same feeling as driving an S-Class.

To those who bought a car with mostly 10 year old technology and expected it to surpass modern day technology and design

When I bought my 89 TE I didn't immediately start comparing it to an 06 5 series touring.

Mercedes is aware of the fact that it's image has been tarnished when the bean counters took over the company and I can tell that the build quality is back in many of the newer Mercedes I have seen and been in. No car is perfect, and those who have problems are always the most vocal so no surprise that we might hear that there are some problems... but why Lexus people seem to have this "my car is the son of god" attitude I will never know. That is the true arrogance. I can't imagine that many mercedes owners go trolling in the Lexus forums like this. If you are out of mercedes leave the world of mercedes and don't look back, this behavior is like having a creepy ex that keeps coming back to tell you how much happier they are in their new relationship, even though it is no good.

appatula

Yes, yes it is. Once again, http://clublexus.com/forums/index.php they would be happy to listen to you there. We listened and ironically we disagree, strange being this is a forum "for the Mercedes Benz Enthusiast".

shdoug

"We disagree"?! Who disagrees? Do you know what we're talking about?

Who here thinks that the W124 is more reliable and costs less to maintain than a Lexus fill-in-the-blank? Anyone? Hello?? That is what is being proposed by the thread author. I am reading about people who think the W124 is a better car. Great! That is subjective and a non-admissible argument. Also offered was the idea that MB was the first. Good point. So the Japs took someone else's idea and made it better. They've been doing that for the last 40 years and it is an excellent business model for them. Who wouldn't do that if they could? That's the secret to building an empire. Ask Bill Gates about it. Why would that make me not want to buy their product? On principle?
LMAO! Check your Walmart stock price and let me know how far principle gets you in today's world.

Show me a W124 that has had less than $1,000 worth of repairs since new, and then we'll revisit this. I can show you countless Lexi that fall into that category. Heck, I can show you Chryslers and GMs, too. Stay on topic and defend your point.

Or am I missing something? Sorry for the rant, but this is ridiculous. Bottom line on the E: Awesome car, Awesome cost to own.

Walla

Erm a LS400's LDC screen for the AC system is $1000, and they are prone to fail so much infact that you can now buy non OEM replacement.

As for quality.

Merc did take a knock not gonna argue, hell my family bought BMW's from 1998 till 2005 due to Merc shocking Service and Quality..

But and this is a BIG FIRM ROUNDED BUT, a Lexus is nothing but a tarted up toyota, fi you go dig you will find that Untill 2006 there was no such thing as a Lexus in Japan, and when the brand got launched there, they had a disaster, sales were crappy for a while, if a Jap, will not buy a Jap car at a premuim why should we.

Is a Lexus better built than a Merc, i know of a Couple of W124's and W123's with 500 000 Miles and counting, new rings and Valves yes... Show me a 1989 lexus that has more than 300 000miles please..

Also the new lexus Models are not as reliable as people think.

So go buy what ever car you want, it is your cash you don't need to validate your purchase.

bjay51d

[QUOTE=Walla;2583994]Erm a LS400's LDC screen for the AC system is $1000, and they are prone to fail so much infact that you can now buy non OEM replacement.

QUOTE]just like the head gaskets,wire harnest,ac system,transmission of the w124,and lets not for get that vaccum system

Walla

[QUOTE=bjay51d;2584022]NO KIDDING.

in our house we had 3 of them, all of them had 100 000 Miles on before they got sold. In that time 1 thing failed, the A/C fan, it was $600 to fix.

Did the tranny's go, well we had 1 manual 200E , a Auto 300E and a E36(manual gearbox from a 300E), no tranny problems

Wire Harness go? Hell NO.

Head gasket, nope engines were still running smoke and excessive oil use free.

Vacuum system failed? Nope..

odd things broke, but never was it something major.

Then there is my BIL dad's E220 240 000 Miles. Still going strong.

My Grandad drove a W124 300D, he got it on 150 000 Miles sold it at 250 000 Miles it is still going, gearbox did get replaced at 200 000 Miles.

Yes they break, but honestly **** happens to cars, they are not made to last as long as Noah, stuff breaks shame..

We ran a 320D BMW, blew a Turbo every 7500 Miles.

We had a 1995 LS400 drove 1300 miles in a year before my mom made my dad sell it and get her a W140 320.

Lexus builds great cars, but they are not as reliable as people think, you want a car that keeps going for ever and ever, get a Honda Civic.

JDW124

[QUOTE=bjay51d;2584022]How about we all sell our cars and get BMW's? LOL

My cousin's 1981 3 series is still running strong. All it needs is new tires LOL. And he's never had ANY repairs since he's owned it :O

That's probably why I'm so pissed off at my W124, since it never gives me a break with my wallet -_-.

WHO'S GOT THE LULZ? lolz *sigh, I want my Mustang back so bad right now -_-*

Sojo300E

My 91 300E recently blew the head gasket so its sitting in my backyard right now until i either have the time or money to fix it (thinking about doing it myself since $1200+ isnt quite feasible for me). To replace it temporarily im driving my brothers 91 LS400. Although the car is better technologically, (IE: traction control, heated seats, rear AC,... i think thats about it) i still miss my merc.

Theres just something there that the LS doesn't have. Even though it has nearly 70 hp more than my merc, i just don't feel the power like i do in my merc. I also find my merc to feel a lot comfier, and safer.

Hopefully if i can fix my 300E i can keep it, or get a w140 s420.

bottom line Benz FTW

JDW124

[QUOTE=Walla;2584055]Dude, I keep hearing that from alot of people :O

Are Honda Civics seriously that good? :O I'm tempted with the "last forever thing" LOL. But... But.. It's a Civic

Any info on the new ones, in terms of reliability?

Walla

[QUOTE=JDW124;2584069]There is nothing to break on them....

Walla

[QUOTE=JDW124;2584076]New Model is to young to know..

But 2 of our Family friends had Civics(or still has them) they keep going and going, one has a 1995 Civic 180E Auto it out lasted his W124 230E and his W124 320E combined.. It is now at 500 000 Miles both the gearbox and Engine has been overhauled, but boy for a car that old it keeps going.

Our Neighbour had a 1999 Civic 150I Lux, every moring that car would see 100mph on the school run, it got traded last year for a Accord.

My SIL is a Rep her car is a Civic Hatch 150I, 100 000 Miles and she just sold it for a new Civic...



So does a civic really last that long..

In my experience YES.

Chappy

Yep, that's me.

Since you misinterpreted my listing and point towards $30K in repairs, you have done a disservice to others here. Please get your facts correct.

1. That figure covers everything I've spent on the car, less fuel, financing, registration and insurance. In other words, routine maintenance including oil changes, tires, brakes and a few upgrades like the stereo have been included in that figure.

2. I am not a DIYer. Thus, I pay market rate for MB techs I trust.

3. I have owned the car for 12 years and 150K miles. I purchased it sencond hand from an MB dealer with 70K miles.

$2500 in maintenance and repair over 12 years on a used car is only $208.33 per month average (much cheaper than a car payment on any new MB)...seems reasonable to me to keep my car in top notch running condition.

Chappy

Again, try some context here....most people he don't own their cars more than a few years (excepting RBYCC and a handful of others).

Oops, forgot that figure included a full OE Sportline suspension list of parts. Install not included.

Some people choose to not maintain their vehicles to a high standard. I do - and it shows in the quality, driveability and reliability of the cars in my mini-fleet. My cars don't strand me.

One other thing to add. My Mercedes-Benz ownership experience is much more than putting pencil to paper. For those of you who can't see past the dollars and cents on occasion may be owning the wrong car.

Chappy

I agree. And, yes...there is a Lexus under the roof as well. My wife loves her RX330.

Wolf190

I don't know what is wrong with some people... Japanese cars!? My 190e has at least 250,000 miles on it (130,000 on new motor) and the only problems are little things that can be prevented or easily fixed by yourself. Japanese cars will never match the quality, style, dependability, or class that Mercedes has owned since who knows when. Go big or go home. japanese.... wtf.