Real1shepherd

In all fairness to that response; for the price of admission to a newer MB (and the mile-high nose club), I could supercharge, turbo charge or drop the higher hp, DOHC six engine into mine, supercharge that puppy, still pay way less than a newer MB and keep up with anything you have.

Kevin

Saijin_Naib

I have a 300ce. I can keep up with it on a scooter; you wouldn't be proving much.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop the 20k or so that this car would need to get to my standards, but it just isn't possible. Picking up a w208 CLK55 coupe is much nearer my goal for less.

Quicksilver500

I still stand by everything I said in my first post, but here is some more since I happen to be very opinionated about this topic. :p

We'll if we were talking about antiquated indy cars this might apply. Race cars change every year drastically because that is how racing works, you build one or two so its easy to accelerate your engineering growth like that. Mercedes keeps an SL in production for 13 years, yeah 13 and I love it. It's very very difficult to change things in production. In fact, Mercedes didn't believe in modular factories till recently. They build all w124 sedans on one production line that was tooled to make w124 sedans, the coupes had a good deal assembled off line because of this fact, and probably the reason the 500E has a lot of Porsche in it. While they build one car they tooled the factory across the street for the next model.

After working as a tech for new MB and a durability test engineer for Chrysler (only a short while, now I work for Toyota :/) I might have some small grasp on what I am talking about. After working for Chrysler I figured out EXACTLY where MB had gotten all its terrible electronics and oil burning engines (a liter ever 1000 km is now OK per MB by the way)....They are definitely on the move to improve the cars now, but its going to be hard to build that reputation back up.

I have absolutely no qualms about slamming MB for there recent foolishness, as far as I am concerned its unacceptable. To think that list price on a 5.0L m119 (44k for a long block) is almost as much as a new E-Class should give you some perspective.... The Germans should know better, innovate don't imitate, leave the Japs and Americans to their game and make your own. I know global markets and technology have made this difficult but come on. Did you know that the Lexus 4.0 and 4.3L engines are based on the m119? Surprised, probably not. Benz has indeed come up with a lot of new technology that makes the cars faster and safer. However, I would bet that a new car is not a lot safer than your w124 or w126 in 95% of collisions, if you have had the airbags replaced and know how to drive. Most of the new safety systems are "fool proof" crash systems. I won't ever drive anything but a MB because they are #1 as far as safety is concerned and I think they always will be. But how can you say that my 500E , that listed at around 90k in 1992, is of the same value (if it were new) of a 2008 E550 of lets say 75k. $90,000 in 1992 $ is the same as about $130,000 in 2008 $. Another angle is, in 17 years with 160k miles, will that w210 or w211 still have good interior, still be making most of its power, still handle, still have COLD AC, and be safe? I would venture a guess of no it will not, but I will guess that the parts for those w210/211 WILL be much more expensive than the w124/126/140 era cars. My point is not that the new cars are junk, they are still good cars compared to what is available, but they lack the luster and greatness that defined Mercedes-Benz.

Now to defend someone in MB that has been doing the right things. AMG, they are finally letting loose. AMG Benzes, even though they are not put together by AMG anymore (which may be a good thing haha), are awesome. They went further to make all the aspects of the car that much better, interior, exterior, drive train, and now they are making some of the best production motors in the world. Pretty fantastic and I think its something to get really excited about, I can't tell you how happy I am the quad cam finally came back.

Cars have different value to different people, I happen to like everything the w124/126 cars. I don't feel like these cars are dated, I rather like the conservative yet unique look. The lack of electronic technology doesn't bother me because it doesn't hinder me. Pretty much everything in my cars still works. That being said, I will continue to dump money into my 124's and I hope to buy some more and maybe a 126 or 2. So for those of you that don't think they are worth anything I hope you never change, more for us .

-Mike

Real1shepherd

For 20K, unless you are doing absolutely none of the work yourself, you should have the suspension system/engine of your dreams. If you want me to prove that point for you, set up a 20K trust fund just for my car (and only my car) and I'll give you progress reports weekly of the ultimate, 'baaaad-***' W124 wagon...

Kevin

nantucketsleigh

Quicksilver, I would agree with most everything you said. To appreciate the quality of the 124's requires more than a casual look. Most people will never look at their cars that closely. BTW, my 500E would be about $115,000 in current dollars.

Real1shepherd

The "look", or the '***** tingle factor' of a car's appearance will always draw the young lions from the tall grass. But us older rogues need more than just a pretty face. Reluctantly, I had stored in the very back recesses of my mind how nice this W124 wagon was, simply because I lost it in the divorce-less painful that way. And even though it needs a lot of work, I'm happy to do that work for the eventual outcome. The more I drive it now, the more I remember what it was like when it was new. The way I look at it...sweet justice and a long time coming.

Kevin

190E 16V

To add perspective...


here is my post on pricing from another thread.

(Quote)
Originally Posted by dan2010
Something to really keep in mind is the inflation value of the 30-40K car of the late 70's and 80's. In today's dollar that would be in the 80-100K range for a car. Mercedes of old was really out of reach except for the quite wealthy even their low end variety.
(Unquote)


According to the 1992 dealer MSRP price guide, handed out to prospective buyers in Canada, an MB was in a price range of it's own.

Apart from the 190E 2.3, no middle class need apply.

Sorry, I'm not up on the price of a '92 Ford Taurus, '92 Toyota Camry, or Cadillac FleetRaft, or whatnot.

However, few families could aspire to a Caddy, let alone a Merc.

1992 Mercedes:
190E 2.3 ( base car, MB Tex, 4 cyl., manual trans.) starts @ $38,100
190E 2.6 ( base car, MB Tex, 6 cyl., manual trans.) starts @ $45,100
300E 2.6 ( base car, MB Tex, 6 cyl., 2.6 litre) starts @ $58,700
300E ( 6 cyl. leather standard,) starts @ $67,550
300CE ( 6 cyl. , leather standard) starts @ $80,150
400E ( 8 cyl. leather, no airbag, no ASR ) starts @ $74,750
500E ( 8 cyl. leather, all options standard ) starts @ $107,750
300SE ( 6 cyl. leather standard ) starts @ $93,250
500SEL ( 8 cyl. leather, standard ) starts @ $124,250
600SEL ( 12 cyl.??, leather standard, ) starts @ $169,750

Also, add 14% tax as well!

Quite steep prices in 1992 - buyers paid a large premium for an 'engineered without regard for expense' MB, over an 'ordinary' car.
Now, imagine translating this to 2008 dollars - a Merc would be priced out of sight!
I'm sure a lot more people would buy a Lexus, instead.


I did find these US prices in Car & Driver, April 1992

US price comparisons:

'92 Isuzu Trooper $21,000 - $24,000 lots of room and std. features
'93 Chrysler Intrepid approx. $20,000
'92 Buick Skylark $19,362 well-equipped
'92 Honda Civic $15,000

'92 BMW M5 $64,430

'92 Mercedes 400E $60,195
'92 Mercedes 500E $88,685

Mercedes could afford to produce exceptional,extensively-engineered, quality, cars by charging a high price for them.

Maybe they ARE back on track with their new AMG editions of their cars?

Now they can afford to pay the R&D to innovate.

Chinny4290

Old benzes > new benzes

Hence why I have a W124 and W116.

/thread


but there is some moderation. Benzes after 1995 excluding the W210, W140, W463 and R129 I think mostly are crap compared to their predecessors, most notably the late 1990s, and early-mid 2000s W202, W203, W211, W220, W163, R230, and W215 and the R170.

But I still love the W211 AMGs, W220 AMGs, W202 AMGs, and the W215s, W216s, W221s, W219s and the W204 (my mom has one, I affected her with the MBz virus after my W124 )

Chappy

Go ahead....give in. You know you want to lol...

Chappy

Ha ha....love it! Keep it comin'

Saijin_Naib

Oh, there is no doubt I want to, I just simply don't have the money to. Maybe when I get outta college and get my first real job I can finally give the CE the attention it needs. Then pick up a w208 CLK55 and horde the Mercedes coupe awesomeness all for my own.

Chappy

I owned my '91 CE for 12 years (7 before getting my 55), so take your time....but the power is addictive.

Real1shepherd

Sticker price on my '92 300TE 4matic wagon; auto, back seat option and with MB Tex was:$63,910.00

Kevin

190E 16V

Thanks, Kevin, here's a bit of perspective...

$64K, and not even a "sporty exotic"! This kind of money (US $$, I imagine) for a family car - but what a well-equipped, competent, rewarding, car.
A new member on this forum was enquiring about a W124 wagon for less than $4K !!!

MissRight

I love my '92 300E, partly because I've had it since it was brand new and partly because it feels so comfortable. In other words, it's broken in. Whenever I take my car in for service, the loaner I get is a new 280 (or, whatever) and I'm so anxious to get my own car back. The new car feels like it might blow away if a powerful wind comes along, and when I accelerate, it does pretty good but definitely not as smoothly as my own.

I feel safe in my 300E, I don't have any problems (other than routine maintenance and a couple of things due to age - like getting the a/c converted) and it looks good! Plus, I only have 19K miles until my next high-mileage medallion!

MTI

"Moose money" prices?

1992 MBUSA Prices in US$

1992 Mercedes:
190E 2.3 ( base car, MB Tex, 4 cyl., manual trans.) starts @ $29,850
190E 2.6 ( base car, MB Tex, 6 cyl., manual trans.) starts @ $34,000
300E 2.6 ( base car, MB Tex, 6 cyl., 2.6 litre) starts @ $42,950
300E ( 6 cyl. leather standard,) starts @ $49,500
300CE ( 6 cyl. , leather standard) starts @ $52,500

300E 4-Matic Sedan $57,100

300TE Wagon $53,900
300TE 4-Matic Wagon $61,100

400E ( 8 cyl. leather, no airbag, no ASR ) starts @ $55,800
500E ( 8 cyl. leather, all options standard ) starts @ $79,200
300SE ( 6 cyl. leather standard ) starts @ $69,400
300SD Sedan $69,400
400SE $77,900
500SEL ( 8 cyl. leather, standard ) starts @ $93,500
600SEL ( 12 cyl.??, leather standard, ) starts @ $127,800

300SL $83,500
500SL $97,500

190E 16V

Thanks for the comparison.

I guess that was the US $ to "moose money" conversion, plus, I think, some added tariffs and extra gouging of Canadians, that raised the prices so high in Canada.

At the same time, US cars in Canada were substantially higher priced than the same cars in the US - even the US cars manufactured in canadian factories.

Real1shepherd

Yeah US$, it was a crazy price for a wagon, back then. But I did the research and poured over the features and mechanical aspects of this car. I eventually gave it the nod. Now, I'm having more fun than a monkey throwing feces. Depending on geography, mileage and dent status, these wagons range form $3K to $4,800.00. My ex should have given it to me (with all the work it needs), that's the rub. It a duck that still flies straight, even though it has major wing damage.

Kevin

jmang09

I really like this thread.

I just read about an e55 with only 61k miles with a cracked piston and I get to thinking...just how many miles can the new e-classes (or any other new model) go before something catastrophic happens.

Thats why I love my w124


they just dont build them like they used to...

190E 16V

Sigh, I love my mine, too, But...

My W124 has 53,000 miles, only. However, I just lashed out $5,000 for a teardown of the front of the M119 to replace timing chain, guides, chain tensioner, and the belt tensioner. Catastrophic failure, due to the car sitting and lack of simple interval maintenance, it appears. Car was not raced.

The car I traded it for, was an '87 190 2.3 16v , high-revving, 4cylinder car with 386,000km. It's still going strong, and the head has never been off!

That's the difference between well and poorly maintained cars.

We can expect to replace ageing gaskets, rubber parts, and electronics as they deteriorate, I'm afraid.

After 13+ years, we have to expect to pay for maintenance to keep the W124's going. The new ones don't.

Chappy

Very well stated. MBs hate to sit around undriven....enjoy them!

Real1shepherd

Absolutely correct, the worst thing for the older MB's is to sit. The Germans designed the cars to be driven and maintained, much like the older Jag sports cars et all. My ex had the car sitting for a yr....only thing that saved me was the climate-northern ID, which is very arid. Driving regularly & prudent maintenance makes for a happy MB.

Kevin