srogers

I have a 91' 300E 3.0L with about 65,000K miles and I need to replace the struts and shocks. I would like to maintain the quality ride but would like to give it better handling then using stock parts.

I'm looking for any suggestions on the brand and type of shocks, struts, springs.

I'm also wanting suggestions on other things that I should look at replacing such as sway bar bushings, etc.

I'm trying to do a lot of the repairs myself because times are tough and money is tight.

Thanks,

ZorroAMG

I put Koni adjustable shocks and Intrax springs as well as the eibach sway bar up front...had i been aware of it before i'd put front and rear sway bars from a 500E/E500 w124, they fit well and may be cheaper but above all, work amazing

the suspension changes I made gave it phenomenal handling but the ride is going to be affected because of the trade-offs. Also i am running 18 inch wheels with a 40 profile tire so it is a bit harsh that way as well

Mark

ksing44

I went with the Eibach Pro Kit springs, Bilstein HD shocks, and +1 wheel and tire combination. The 16" AMG Aero I Monoblock wheels are just beautiful. They are the original AMG Monoblocks. Now I am looking into the anti-roll bars. The Eibach bars are cool, because they are red and I think they have polyurethane bushings, but I will most likely get the E500 bars just to be more "Mercedes" correct.

The combination that I selected is a somewhat intermediate modification.

Springs
The Eibach Pro Kit springs are not as stiff as the Eibach Sports or the H&Rs and they only dropped the car about 1 inch. I went with the Eibach Pro Kit because I didn’t want to destroy the ride and I am not planning to race my car on the track. It is always a compromise between performance and ride comfort. Even the Eibach Pro Kit steels some of the comfort, but you get accustomed to it and then learn to love it. H&Rs may be the more popular springs, and if I did it again, although I am satisfied now, I think I would get the H&Rs.

Shocks
The Bilstein shocks are arguably the best shocks in the world. The Bilstein "HD" shocks are OE on the AMG versions of the Benz. HD springs may not be as firm as the Bilstein "Sports", although I have heard that they are and that the only difference is the length of travel. The Sports are recommended if you drop the car, but since the Eibach Pro Kit springs are a very small drop it is OK to use the HDs. The HDs are definitely strong enough and durable enough to cope with the increased spring rates of the Eibach Pro Kit springs. If you get H&R springs, I think that you should definitely get the Sports. Many, many, many people get the H&R springs and Bilstein Sport shocks.

Wheels
I went with 16" x 7.5" wheels, which is a "+1" wheel for my 1995 E320. Just like everything else, this is intermediate to going with +2 or even +3 and +4 wheels. You can get crazy with the size of your wheels. Here again, there is a trade-off with comfort and performance. Bigger wheels means that you have to use tires with smaller sidewalls. The lower profile tires give quick agile handling, but they also give a more harsh and noisy ride. Here again, I am happy, but kind of curious about doing even more. It is addicting. I am curious about having 17s.

My car truly is a nice blend of increased performance and comfort. I am satisfied with my modifications so far, but I think I would go with H&Rs, Bilstein Sports, and 17" wheels if I had to do it again. That combination is by far the most common list of modifications that I have seen on the many forums that I visit. It is also common on the BMWs. I don’t know how much performance I am missing or much comfort I would lose, but I feel like I only did it half way. Why should anyone do anything half way? Except that getting half of the performance left me with half of the comfort. It is a compromise.

M104-AMG

I've done so many variations/iterations of W124 suspension, but I've settled on one that still lowers it slightly, but performs admirably when pushed.

500E front & rear springs.
500E front & rear swaybars.

And the piece that really brings it all together is the EARLY 500E front struts/dampers that have internal springs, MB pn# 124.350.57.30

ksing44

How do those struts/dampers compare to Bilsteins? I though it was likely that the E500 came with Bilsteins. I thought that the E500 might be like the AMGs in that they used parts from reputable suppliers like Bilstein, Eibach, or H&R to get the sportier feel that they were known for.

ksing44

M104-AMG,

How are those E500 sway bars? Do you think they are as stiff as the Eibach bars? I am just about to bite on adding the bars to my car. Please help me select the best bar. I am not going to undo my previous mods. I already have the Eibach springs and the Bilstein shocks. Would you select the E500 bars for me? Will they give me less body-roll? Will it be awesome?

ZorroAMG

Ksing44

Go with the 500E bars, they were designed for the handling you seek and there is no doubt mercedes did more research on designing the bars for the W124 than Eibach or any other company could.
HAVE NO FEAR OEM 500E IS HERE!!

M104-AMG

In the USA, none of the W124 cars came stock with Bilstein struts. Currently the factory Mercedes SportLine and 500E struts are still made by SACHS. While not offerring a
lifetime warranty like the Bilsteins, they are better valved IMHO for the everday use of a Mercedes.

The 500E front swaybar DEPENDS on having the 500E front struts with internal buffer-springs. It's a system designed to work together. The 500E swaybars taper so that the left & right wheels can still independently move up & down for a comfortable ride, and letting the strut's internal buffer-springs provide less lean ONLY when pushed.

IMHO, the EIBACH swaybars and springs are overpriced.

If you want even less lean, go with either Bilstein Sport struts and a 500E front swaybar; or if you can find it either the W124 limo (0.5mm thicker than 500E bar) or E60 (1.0mm thicker than 500E bar) front swaybars paired with either early 500E front struts or Bilstein Sport (they don't have springs).

Anything with the Bilstein Sport (for short springs) or Heavy-Duty (for stock springs) struts will be more stiff/less comfortable than the early 500E front struts.

Also, if you're doing anything greater than 16-inch tires, I would NOT use Bilstein Sport or Heavy-Duty struts for street-use, since the height of your tire sidewall also provides a degree of cushion.

ksing44

Wow, Limo and E60 bars, can you imagine that there is something more than the E500! I am up to my eyeballs in decisions. Hey what about the rear bar? I am sure that I will do it, because I am a nut about getting it right, but is it really that important to change the rear swaybar? It seems that the front and rear should work together and I don’t hear anything about changing the rear. I know it is more labor to change the rear swaybar, so it will cost more to change it. How much does it really matter? I just want to understand why I am doing it.

I like the idea of the tapered E500 bar that allows for some independent wheel travel, but I also want "FLAT CORNERING". Will I get it if I add the E500 bars to my Eibach Pro Kit Springs, and Bilstein HD shocks? My car is pretty good now, but it does lift and roll as I am cornering. I want more, but I do want to retain some of the comfort. As you may have read in previous posts, I understand that it is a compromise. The Eibachs do not appear to be tapered in the photos, so I guess they are more stiff, i.e., more flat. Then again, independent sounds good too. After all, everyone always brags about independent front suspensions. PLEASE HELP ME! I am looking for a perfect solution.

Thank you for helping me.

I have to add that it is so awesome to get to ask real experts about their experiences and get their advice. The Internet and this forum are just amazing!

ksing44

E500 vs. Sportline
How do you think the E500 and Sportline swaybars compare?

ZorroAMG

Ksing44
regarding Sportline VS 500E see my other post in your thread about sway bar sizes.

As for E60 and Limo, if your dealer can actually get them you will pay way more than 500E cause they are much lower production. As well you should change both sway bars for optimum tuning of the car's setup. Sway bars will reduce roll and not ride quality. Spring rates reduce ride quality

M104-AMG

Get the biggest bar you can (E60 AMG), early 500E front struts, and 500E springs.

This, IMHO, will be the flattest handling with some compliance due to the 500E front struts and 500E springs.

If you want even more, change from 500E front struts to Bilstein HD or Sport.

As ZorroAMG said, going to firmer springs will really make for a stiff ride.

Yes, install the 500E rear sway bar. Otherwise, the car will be unbalanced.

BTW- I wanted a flatter handling 500E, so I changed out the 500E front struts for SportLine struts.

pkmaven

Before I add the following stats, remember that a V8 MB weighs much more than a 6cylinder car and that the bars are specifically designed for better handling based on that weight.

300E Stock front 26.5mm /15mm Rear
300E Sport front 27.5mm/16.5mm Rear, Stock coupe is the same
E420 Stock front 26.5mm/16mm Rear
E500 Stock front 28mm/18mm Rear

Cost from Rusty Cullen @buymbparts.com
124-323-68-65 Front Sportline bar $93
124-326-19-65 Rear Sportline bar $87
124-323-70-65 E420 Front $97
124-326-24-65 E420 Rear $110
124-323-72-65 E500 Front $128
124-326-25-65 E500 Rear $160

Don't forget, you will need bushings for both.

If you have a six cylinder 124, and you want tighter, flatter handling without sacrificing ride comfort, I suggest changing to the "Sportline" option bars which were designed by Mercedes for this purpose. The thickness doesn't tell the whole story. The stiffness of the steel makes a difference. New Bilsteins also make a very noticeable difference. Replacing the rear, upper strut links (control arm)makes a big difference. P.

ksing44

I don’t know the exact weights, but I have heard a lot of noise about how the earlier E300s had better handling characteristics because they were lighter than the later 1995 E320. Since the sportline bar was made for that lighter car, maybe the E500 bars would be a better choice for my 1995 E320. My car’s weight may be intermediate between the 2 cars, so the sportline would be a bit too soft and the E500 might be a bit too stiff. I already have too soft, so if I pay good money to stiffen it up, I think I should go for the E500 bars. It seems everyone is pushing for the Mercedes bars instead of the Eibach bars that "are specifically engineered for our cars". I don’t quite understand why everyone is "steering" clear of the after market bars when we use their other parts. We all buy after market springs and shocks, but everyone seems to think the Mercedes bar is better. The Eibach bars come with polyurethane bushings, which is considered a good thing. The Eibach front bar is 28mm end to end, with no taper, so I suppose it will be very stiff and the car will be very flat. I understand that different materials could make the tapered E500 bar stiffer, but I’m not sure anyone has actually tested it. I am just curious about everyone’s opinions. Thank you for all the help.

Chappy

The Sportline option wasn't offered until 1992 in the U.S., so it was designed specifically for your E320 characteristics.

I cannot speak for aftermarket pieces (Konis, etc), but I installed a complete Sportline suspension (except the steering box) on my '91 300CE and the car has a totally different character.....but it is not a "track" car! Very smooth and stable, especially at speed on the highway. It corners much flatter that the standard suspension, but it won't corner "totally flat". It depends on what you want

FWIW, "Eibach" is painted on the front swaybar of my '02 CLK55

M104-AMG

The 500E swaybar works well with the *early* 500E front struts. It will give a "two-tiered" setup. Soft & compliant on everyday travels, firm & stable, during "spirited driving". This is due to the taper in the 500E front bar, and the 500E front struts having internal spring buffers. This is setup I would recommend for an everyday car.

FWIW, the M119 aluminum engine is ONLY about 50-lbs. heavier. It's all the other stuff in a 500E that makes it heavier.

Also, the poly bushings will squeak more and be annoying., than the MB factory bushings.

badbenz94

I went with the e500 swaybar on my e320 with the "low" H&R's and have 17" wheels (just got my 18" amg monos!!!!), Bilstein shocks and I am very happy with this combo however on my past 190e I had eibachs, if I were to do it again I would have a tough time deciding between the eibachs for ride or the H&Rs for the cornering, however due to alignment problems I would use the regular H&R's hope this adds to your confusion!

ksing44

I am still not quite able to make my decision about the bars.
First, good things about E500 bars.
I like the idea of using the OE E500 bars and I know that the E500 rear bar is actually 1mm larger than the Eibach rear bar. In addition, based on what gsxr wrote in a previous post, it sounds like the OE bushings may be made from some kind of polyurethane and they have a Teflon inner sleeve. The Eibach probably does not have the Teflon sleeve. The taper on the big E500 bar may provide some degree of compliance at the ends that translates into a more comfortable ride, while still giving pretty flat cornering ability. The E500 bars sound pretty good.
Now on to the Eibach bars.
I understand that different materials can affect stiffness, but I still think the taper will make the E500 bar less stiff than the Eibach bar and most people seem to want the stiffest, biggest bar they can find. I have read that even super stiff bars should not have a dramatic affect on ride quality. It is not like changing the springs and shocks. Although it is important to match the front and rear bars, the front seems to be a much larger concern to most people, so the 1mm smaller Eibach rear bar may not be an issue. The Eibach rear bar is 2mm larger than my skinny little stock 15mm bar and that skinny little rear bar couldn’t be doing much work back there. I just read that Eibach is painted on the front swaybar of Chappy’s '02 CLK55. I thought I was right about Mercedes using reputable aftermarket suppliers for some of their "sport" parts. I learned from a previous post that Bilstein was not used in the earlier cars, but I knew for sure they used Bilstein more recently and I had read that AMG used the Eibach springs among other suppliers at different times. Now Chappy says that he has the Eibach swaybar. So actually, to get an AMG-like and still "Mercedes-correct" E320, I can use Eibach springs, Bilstein shocks, Eibach swaybars, and some AMG Wheels. This should give me the handling characteristics of the AMG. Hey, I know that I still won’t have the speed, but that is OK because I am really very satisfied with the engine performance of my 1995 E320. I am curious about the big V8, but I am in love my I6 motor and stock performance, compared to AMG tuned, may be more likely to give me the years of reliability that Mercedes is known for.
Back to the bars. I am still trying to decide. Based on my list of concerns, I guess I am leaning toward the Eibach. Then I go back to E500 to be more "Mercedes" correct and to get that "taper" for a more compliant but still flat ride. If I pay about 1000.00 dollars to purchase and install the E500 bars and don’t get a flat ride, I will be very disappointed. Then again, if I spend about the same for the Eibach bars and end up sacrificing too much ride quality or end up ripping the wheels off my car when I am cornering, I will also be very disappointed. Thanks for all of the information, but I am still having a hard time making a decision.

Chappy

......don't confuse the two.....really, even if you put the exact AMG-spec suspension parts on your E320, they would handle different (because they were designed for different chassis! - 208 vs. 124) I elected to go with what MB engineers designed for the W124 chassis...factory Sportline components.

Neil (M104-AMG) has probably the best advice in the suspension department, due to his experience with using different pieces to achieve the perfect balance for his wagon. He, better than I, can probably give the most objective advice and provide feedback on the differences and handling characteristics between using different swaybars, shocks and springs.

The Sportline suspension on my CE is less "stiff" on the highway than the CLK. Keep in mind that I have 205/60-15 tires on the CE and 17-in low profile tires on the CLK. A fellow MBCA member (and MB Master Tech) told me that his '93 300E Sportline "drove better" than his '92 500E....take this non-technical analysis with a grain of salt. Everyone has their own preferences.

"Curious about the V8"....I wish MB had built a factory 500CE! To me, that would have been the "ultimate" car. Style, reliability and performance. Alas, it was not to be. Converting my CE was cost prohibitive to do it right, so I "settled":p on the CLK55. The torque on this monster is amazing....I don't drive it daily....just sneak it out of the garage on occasion or when the mood strikes.

Bottom line....you have to satisfy yourself. See if you can find someone locally with the W124 sedan that has had suspension work done. See if they will take you for a ride. Your own "seat of the pants" experience cannot be quantified on a message board.

.....If you ever plan to be in Atlanta.....let me know....we can satisfy that curiousity about the V8

Steve

ksing44

Thanks Chappy,

The Eibach bar that I was referring too, for my 1995 E320, was designed for the W124. I was not considering using your bar. I was just saying that Mercedes uses Eibach parts to modify their cars, so it should be OK and “Mercedes-correct” for me to modify my car with the Eibach bars.
I wish I could go try riding in cars with the different modifications before I buy the components, but I am pretty sure that will never happen. I am just trying to get something that I will like. I am crazy about getting it the way I like it in just about everything. First it was designing and building my house. Then it was my crazy Stereo. Now I am working on my car. I am happy with the stuff I did so far, although I may switch the rear pads one more time. I think I will be done after the anti-roll-kit.

Thanks again for helping me decide.