E420 Painful lesson good ending
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All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
Still reading 80 deg C during houston/new orleans summer heat and humidity
knock on wood, the E420 80 deg C Engine temp is holding.. getting a couple degrees higher during extreme heat and a couple degrees lower at night..... still working out to be a great choice
Last edited by kafklatsch; Aug 20, 2009 at 06:31 PM.
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From: So. Cal.
97R129-01W163-94E320-93500E
Normal operating temp is regulated by the thermostat. Meaning, if your car is originally equipped with an 87 degree thermostat your normal operating temp is 87 degrees +/- 3 degrees.
I too had difficulty understanding the basic operation of the viscous fan clutch. I also thought that if I could spin the fan freely above 90 degrees, or if it could be stopped by a roll of news paper while idling, the viscous fan clutch is shot. I was wrong. This tests could not really detect the actual functioning condition of the viscous fan clutch.
Attached is a document I came across while researching in my quest to make my car operate within normal operating temp. This document made me understand the viscous fan clutch operation which in turn helped me solve my temp issues. Now my car run at 87degree (+/- 3 degrees) no matter what the ambient temp is, AC on or off, and at any driving condition (stuck in traffic or cruising at 80-100.)
Last edited by edcarls; Aug 28, 2009 at 05:46 PM.
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124.066
variations in engine temp
Hi to all,
I have been reading the discussions on the fan clutch and no one mentions the water pump! When cold I can stop the fan with my fingers but it gets harder as the engine warms up in my 1994 e320 cabriolet, so I don't think its the clutch. However after removing the thermostat, and letting the water higher that the thermo housing drain out, no more water. Shouldn't the water pump continue to pump out water from the housing until its almost all gone out of the engine? So how does one know if the water pump is bad (or weak)? Any insight would be appreciated. Miles
I have been reading the discussions on the fan clutch and no one mentions the water pump! When cold I can stop the fan with my fingers but it gets harder as the engine warms up in my 1994 e320 cabriolet, so I don't think its the clutch. However after removing the thermostat, and letting the water higher that the thermo housing drain out, no more water. Shouldn't the water pump continue to pump out water from the housing until its almost all gone out of the engine? So how does one know if the water pump is bad (or weak)? Any insight would be appreciated. Miles
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Joined: May 2009
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From: So. Cal.
97R129-01W163-94E320-93500E
Hi to all,
letting the water higher that the thermo housing drain out, no more water. Shouldn't the water pump continue to pump out water from the housing until its almost all gone out of the engine? So how does one know if the water pump is bad (or weak)? Any insight would be appreciated. Miles
letting the water higher that the thermo housing drain out, no more water. Shouldn't the water pump continue to pump out water from the housing until its almost all gone out of the engine? So how does one know if the water pump is bad (or weak)? Any insight would be appreciated. Miles
If you removed the thermostat cover, the coolant would drain up to the level of the thermostat housing on the cylinder head. If you run your engine with out the thermostat and thermostat cover coolant would pour out of your cylinder head or radiator hose up to a point where the water pump is submerged to the coolant. It is not advisable to run your engine while the thermostat cover is off or radiator hoses are disconnected.
Bad water pump would show signs by leaking coolant through the weep hole, noisy bearings, and or wobbly pulley. The best way to find out is to remove it for a thorough inspection of the bearings, seals and impellers.
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All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
I swapped thermostats after i first got the low temps.... thinking it was stuck.... no difference observed.
On the gas mileage, I posted previous that it has not changed (actually it is about 1/2 to 1 mpg less now, but it has taken 2000 miles to notice)....
On the gas mileage, I posted previous that it has not changed (actually it is about 1/2 to 1 mpg less now, but it has taken 2000 miles to notice)....
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All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
very good document. amazing what is detailed out there. I wish I could get every single technical explanation for my Benz's - I saved this one. Is there more from your source with this type of technical content?
I am still running at 82-84 deg C. maximium and about 80 C. min.(cool nights) I am hoping that this is not going to kill my car. after having the AC struggle during the brutal days of summer in the deep south, I am happy with the resultant frosty cabin and hope its not to my detriment - after owning several benzes, i doubt it is, but grateful for the comment.
I am still running at 82-84 deg C. maximium and about 80 C. min.(cool nights) I am hoping that this is not going to kill my car. after having the AC struggle during the brutal days of summer in the deep south, I am happy with the resultant frosty cabin and hope its not to my detriment - after owning several benzes, i doubt it is, but grateful for the comment.
You may have installed the wrong viscous fan clutch that engage at lower temp than what is required by your car. Operating below normal temperature is just as bad as operating above the normal operating temperature.
Normal operating temp is regulated by the thermostat. Meaning, if your car is originally equipped with an 87 degree thermostat your normal operating temp is 87 degrees +/- 3 degrees.
I too had difficulty understanding the basic operation of the viscous fan clutch. I also thought that if I could spin the fan freely above 90 degrees, or if it could be stopped by a roll of news paper while idling, the viscous fan clutch is shot. I was wrong. This tests could not really detect the actual functioning condition of the viscous fan clutch.
Attached is a document I came across while researching in my quest to make my car operate within normal operating temp. This document made me understand the viscous fan clutch operation which in turn helped me solve my temp issues. Now my car run at 87degree (+/- 3 degrees) no matter what the ambient temp is, AC on or off, and at any driving condition (stuck in traffic or cruising at 80-100.)
Normal operating temp is regulated by the thermostat. Meaning, if your car is originally equipped with an 87 degree thermostat your normal operating temp is 87 degrees +/- 3 degrees.
I too had difficulty understanding the basic operation of the viscous fan clutch. I also thought that if I could spin the fan freely above 90 degrees, or if it could be stopped by a roll of news paper while idling, the viscous fan clutch is shot. I was wrong. This tests could not really detect the actual functioning condition of the viscous fan clutch.
Attached is a document I came across while researching in my quest to make my car operate within normal operating temp. This document made me understand the viscous fan clutch operation which in turn helped me solve my temp issues. Now my car run at 87degree (+/- 3 degrees) no matter what the ambient temp is, AC on or off, and at any driving condition (stuck in traffic or cruising at 80-100.)
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All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
okay, I am nearing the one year anniversary of this PITA turned to good. I have just experienced 100, 101, and 102 degree days in the gulf south. The jerry rig fanclutch ($150 vs $650 oem) never let my temp get above 90-92 c (197 deg F) during an extended idle. The performance of this contraption without reducing mpg has been nice. The AC doesnt have to work so hard either.... WooHooo
THE SOLUTION..... I first ordered a bolt from MB dealer.... these bolt are not normal head configuration due to tight install situation......then I cut 1/2" from the bolt.... thank you AGAIN dremel...... (put the new bolt away for possible furtue use if this doesnt work) I Installed everything.....
I was hoping that the clutch I installed performed properly over the temperature ranges..... wellllllll......... it actually over performs. maybe someone can offer an explanation
I can not get the temperature up to above 80-82c for any extended period... maybe a minute.... I drove all kids of nutty ways to see if it would go higher.... it does not.... I made my normal 350 mile trip to houston last night... 80c all the way..... gas mileage - identicle to before..... A/C needed a little freon due to cooler condenser temp causing lower a/c pressures... A/C cold at idle and all speeds...
The clutch appears to do the job and then some.... for only 150$
I was hoping that the clutch I installed performed properly over the temperature ranges..... wellllllll......... it actually over performs. maybe someone can offer an explanation
I can not get the temperature up to above 80-82c for any extended period... maybe a minute.... I drove all kids of nutty ways to see if it would go higher.... it does not.... I made my normal 350 mile trip to houston last night... 80c all the way..... gas mileage - identicle to before..... A/C needed a little freon due to cooler condenser temp causing lower a/c pressures... A/C cold at idle and all speeds...
The clutch appears to do the job and then some.... for only 150$
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 233
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From: Los Angeles
1993 400E, 1994 E420, 2000 SL500, 2014 C250
Can't you just bypass the fan clutch altogether so that the fan would be on constant. Did this in a pinch on a w123 300d when the fan clutch went out. A little louder but worked just fine in the 100+ degree weather a month ago.
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From: So. Cal.
97R129-01W163-94E320-93500E
Either replace your fan clutch or replace your fan with one designed to be used without fan clutch.
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All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
With the fan constantly engaged, the fan blades might not be able to withstand the centrifugal force @ 3000-4000 RPM.......... they are in constant stress.............and stress could break the blade loose from the hub and destroy your radiator and other components.
Either replace your fan clutch or replace your fan...........
Either replace your fan clutch or replace your fan...........
to have the fan clutch engaged 100% is not a good situation and could be dangerous as the rpms go up. I strongly recommend repairing. You are also placing the bearings under excessive stress, the bearing bracket is a separate part and also expensive if the bearings go out - and they very well might because they are designed to "not be spinning" at high engine RPMs. Also, if this were a good solution, almost every broken clutch would be "fixed" this way to save countless dollars on parts and labor
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From: Los Angeles
1993 400E, 1994 E420, 2000 SL500, 2014 C250
This was just something we did to this 300d that we got rid of a couple months ago. So no need to comment on it anymore.
Last edited by BJaltima; Aug 21, 2010 at 06:37 PM.
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All Cars Lost To Hurricane Isaac (W124 E420 revived - added 88 Allante 14 S550, 17 S63
After nine years I have now hit 100,000 miles since the fan clutch debacle. The clutch is still good, car runs 88C on 100F degree days in south Texas. Extreme stop and go on the hottest days gets me to 90-91C, gas mileage has been normal, and no motor issues. The $150 dollar clutch has performed admirably...the $900 Sach's clutch could not have performed any better then the $150 clutch. … its no longer anecdotal....and note that I typically still by OEM and premium parts, but $900 Vs $150 was to good to pass up...
