ptoro01

Yea kinda like that, but it doesn't dip noticeably.
In that picture the rear wheel did lift, but I did get into that round about corner too fast and overshot.

Saijin_Naib

When was that shot taken? What were your mods at that time?

ptoro01

2 years ago, nothings changed since except the Nankangs are gone
Vogtland, bilstein sports, rear kmac, 500e sway, 225-45-17.

I'm thinking big brake kit and sportline steering box are next.

Saijin_Naib

Have any videos of it in action I can take a look at?

My only thought is that the vogtlands maybe don't handle weight transfer very well and are just for show/drop only. But again, that is just an unsubstantiated thought.

ptoro01

No videos
My only comparison of springs are eibachs and I found them soft. Haven't tried H&R and those are said to be the middle ground while vogtlands are the hardest. Maybe? The bounce sucked, it might still be there, just less.

RBYCC

Below link to a SCCA paper that may clarify:
http://www.neohio-scca.org/comp_clin...namics2007.pdf

Don't get too hung up on the engineering aspect but always understand the limits of the stock chasis design.

Based on your posts both you and Saijin ( Brett ) are looking to improve your handling to make you go faster in autox competition.

You'll find by trial and error that your suspension mods not only reach a point of diminishing returns but go into an area of diminishing performance.

If you are tracking a car in a serious way, you would know that you have to set the suspension wheel by wheel or corner by corner.
They are not all set equally.
Coilovers due to their ability to adjust gives you this.
But the coilovers alone are not effective if they aren't compatible with the stock suspension geometry.

As far as flat cornering or even lifting a wheel, most times it's a direct result of driver input. Enter a corner or brake incorrectly and you will tend to lean a car even with a perfectly setup suspension.

I've never run autox but to me it's what used to be called "gymkhana".
I believe it's at times more difficult then road racing.
Road racing allows you to build a rhythm, lap after lap correcting your line each time until you lock in.

I haven't been on a track in many, many years the last time was in a DB Aston Martin Vantage spec on bias ply tires !!!!

Let me suggest to you what I suggested to Brett..order this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Driver-...p/0837602017#_

I got it when I was ten years old in 1958...probably was the only kid in my neigborhood who knew who Stirling Moss was

I'm presently building a C124 widebody replica which uses the correct AMG wheels with a bit extra rubber.
My suspension was set up and balanced when I did my twin turbo install.
The car does not have a radical drop it has H&R sport lowering springs with Bilstein HD's. The Hd's are commonly used on turbo Porsche street suspension setups.
Front and rear sways are Sportline.
I've added a front and rear strut/shock tower upper bar to reduce chassis flex under torque.
The pic below shows a good suspension balance/weight transfer under launch without having a LSD.

the_widebody

if you want to go really improve the chassis response of the 124, you should forget the coilovers,

fitting a LOWER chassis brace between the wishbone to body mounts at the rear of the engine, as the 500e has, will reduce the flex.


in the rear suspention, the subframe locates the suspension, the damper towers only hold the damper, the damper doesnt take any torque thats worth considering. the flex is in the subframe to body interface.

at the front the upper brace may make a bit of a difference, but again the construction doesnt seem to rely on the top of the strut tower for rigidity in the same way as other cars do.

merc didnt fit upper braces to any of the 124 upgrades, but they did fit the lower brace to the 500e.

using coilovers would change the situation, and make an upper bar more worthwhile, obviously, but he strut towers were not designed to hold the weight of the car, and i dont think its worth the effort.

this coilover thing seems to have come form 190.rev, where they've seen a dtm 190 with coilovers, and assumed it must make the car handle better.

all but the early 190 dtm's were only silhouette class, the dtm 190 and production 190 was radically different.



fit poly bushes to the rear links and subframe, that will tighten up the rear end and will improve things

ptoro01

Interesting batch of info guys.

Would the lower brace with the m103 be a custom thing?

The rear arm clusterhole did get all replaced, not fun, but worth it.

I haven't replaced subframe mounts, my inspection showed no signs that I should, but most of the arms seemed fine. They are 25 years old...perhaps.

RBYCC

Lower brace would be custom as the suspension of the early 124 is a bit different then the 500E.

The upper braces in my opinion are effective with a modified engine.

You want to replace all your bushes in the front and rear suspension along with the motor, subframe and transmission mounts.

You would be amazed the handling difference this makes getting new rubber in place.

I have a point of reference as I bought my 1988 300CE new in May of 1988.
Much easier to "feel" a slight change in handling when you know how it was when new !!!

freshjive80

so has anyone tried this? will this fit my W124?

thanks!

ptoro01

Absolutely 100% agree. The new rear suspension arms are WOW.
Yuck, I'll do the front bushing too and then subframe mounts, if all the torque in the rear is on the subframe mounts, that's a no brainer.

Engine and transmission mounts are a must, tho the diff mount bushings too.

Where would a lower brace go at the back of the engine? at the oil pan? at the intake bolts? at the transmission/engine conjuncture?

the_widebody

there is a thread on benzworld, with all the info and pictures from the epc of the 500e lower brace set up. the 500 parts are very expensive however.

it is on my long list of stuff to do. it involves joining the rear lower points where the wishbone bushes are.

I have just fitted solid gearbox mount and poly bush engine mounts, difference is 200% over the 22 year old ones I replace, but it is a bit 'harsher' but not uncomfortably so.

i am also sure it will drastically reduce the ware on the front drive shaft donut, as all the rotation of the engine is gone, and also the movement of the tail of the gearbox, wich i would imagine was circular, has also gone.

Dievs2

how different e500 swaybars are from ce300 sportline?

Saijin_Naib

Only a few mm Dievs. You want the front bar from e320 cabrio/300ce cabrio/w124 limo and the rear 500e bar, but its only a few mm more than you have.

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...4_swaybars.pdf

justinwrock

I need to find time to fit my R129 front sway bar and E55 rear sway bar.



Then, back to the track!



I did my slammed TE this past summer, and am looking forward to doing it again this year!

Ameen

FINALLY INSTALLED E36 COILOVERS ON THE FRONT OF MY CAR!!!


it was a pain in the ***..

first off, E36 STRUT MOUNTS DO NOT WORK!!! i just spent 200 bucks on adjustable camber plates for an E36 and now i have to sell them.

Second, Height adjustablity is amazing. And the ride quality and comfort is sooo much better than the Bilstiens. Ill be honest, the bilsteins compared to the racelands are much higher quality, and if i wasnt running this low, i probably would have stuck with them. Since i was hitting the bump stop like all the time, i figured this would work well, and it does.

What i did was use the stock strut mount, and ditched the actual spring on the E36 coilover, but used the smaller helper spring that it comes with. So the shock has a tad bit of resistance thanks to that mini spring, and the stock W124 spring handles the rest. Its not totally stiff like my previous cars were with coilovers, but its nice and firm yet still comfortable.

Ill post some more pics and info if you guys want. Sorry for the bad cellphone pic, i got done at like 2am. A lot of trial and error to get it just right.

If i didnt factor in the cost of the Strut mounts, this setup only cost me $180!!!

I wonder how much raceland would sell just the shock and the helper spring for?!


LETS COME UP WITH A SOLUTION FOR THE REAR OF W124 WAGONS PLEASE!!

bsmuwk

you're on the factory rubber mount? O_O
better find some sort of camber adjust plate that will work or that set up is going to fly thru the hood when the rubber mount fails...



in any case --- i know what i'm going to be doing!!! freakin' sweet!

Ameen

Anyone know of metal strutmounts that work for w124?

bsmuwk

what about the e36 camber plates didn't work?

ronald7410

The diameter of the plates bolts were most likely different.

I did speak to a manufacturer of the mounts and asked if they sell them without the bolts. He said he did but we'd have to drill our own holes then. Also the diameter of the plate needs to be exact.

But Ameen, Where did you get your struts for 180?

ronald7410

As long as he doesn't drive hard it shouldn't. And as long as his strut mounts are lower than the existing springs, the springs should hold most of the load. Though if the springs compress too much to where the strut starts carrying more load, the rubber mounts could easily fail.

Me and my friend were speaking that it would be best if the primary spring were to hold the load until we have stronger metal mounts. In this case, under compressive load, the original springs are compressed first then the strut springs second. So in other words, the setup would work similar to a progressive spring.

Also, if we do end up finding some good metal mounts, the only point of failure would be the car's frame itself, the perches that our oem rubber mounts fit into. Hopefully our frame wont break under load...

Quicksilver500

Does this seem both dangerous and ridiculous to anyone else? I can understand coil overs on a car that came with mcpherson strut setups. A dual spring setup is too many unknowns, two unmatched spring rates to a unknown damper? Held in place by a rubber strut mount? Seriously? Wouldn't surprise me at all if this setup was highly unstable at speed. Maybe what you want is a 500E strut which has a limiting spring in it which helps with crash through and grip under cornering load, but doesn't support any static weight.

w124 suspension geometry is actually REALLY good, not many cars had multi link suspension till the late 90's. AutoXing a w124 is also not a great idea. Big cars don't like to turn, inertia is a *****. I have autox my 500E a few times, but its not really much fun, just tons of over heating tires. Go to a decent track where you can use that long wheelbase.

Save yourself the trouble. Go with HR springs, bilsteins, some R rated rubber on a light wheel, and learn how to drive. Car mods won't help any if you don't know how to get around a corner.

-Michael

sweet jones

cressida ameen? loving the wagon.

the_widebody

yes me

and me

of all the mods ive doen to my 124, aside from the twin turbos at 15psi and megasquirt to run it, changing to light wheels wheels made the biggest differance

Shoomakan

Couldn't have said it better my self, buddy.