1987AMG

hello forum,
i have a 1987 AMG 300E (3.2) i have all the documation to back it it has the m103 in it. i just recently installed a 5Spd tranny just a couple of weeks ago.

I now want to install a trubo or possibley a twin trubo kit.

please help me to find a kit and the info i will need to install it. i have the funds avalible to make it happen if i can just find one.

i will have more pictures up and posted when i figure out the whole forum thing so just bear with me.

any help at all would be greatly appreciated. THANKS

the_widebody

you are a very lucky man to have the amg 103 in a 124, they are very rare.

i have the same engine in my ce

could you post or pm me the numbers and letters stamped on the front of the head above plug number one, so i can tell if wich speck it is.

turbo wont be easy in that engine, the comp ratio is 10.5 to one.

i had custom rods and pistons made, and removed the amg spec cam.

big mone, but the head will, depending on its spec, massivly out breath a std head.

will speak more when you post/pm the details of your head.

nick

1987AMG

looke like 7' or 74

chlippo

would like to see pictures and documentations too!
i have a 3.4 amg W124, sadly no documention or anything else

1987AMG

how do you upload pictures?? all i know how to do it is by "browsing" and it wants me to "http:" it.

as soon as someone can help i will have pictures

chlippo

just attach it to the current thread.

click on "post reply" which is at the right end of the last reply on this thread

then go to manage attachments, browse and locate the pictures on your hard disk. Upload...

i think you can only upload 5 at a time.

the_widebody

guys, lets be straight about one thing, there are no documents that relate to individual cars pre 1992 that can 'prove' anything, in fact when i hear that a 1987 car has 'all the docs to prove' i think it is deffinaltly suspect, because someone has made up documents that didint exist. ( unless the guy has the original sales invoice that says 3.2 engine conversion , which also may or may not be a forgery)

there are some magazine articles that can reference the existence, and then if you know what to check, the amg connection can be made (or not)

i do believe this guy may have a 103 with amg mods, but have asked him for details which as yet haven't been forthcoming.

he needs to take a picture of the head above plug number 1 and also with the rocker cover removed, so i can tell immediately if his engine is the real deal.

it doesnt matter to me if it is or not, but he wants to turbo it, and if it is, wil need to address a few issues to be able to do so.

the_widebody

just to clarify why i have altered my request for information;

I am aware that Europe modded cars had a different procurement route to north america modded cars.

in europe, the engine work was all done in germany, so my car had its engine removed at strattons in the uk, and shipped to amg germany for them to do the mods.

amg germany stamped the heads to identify the specs.

(this is why most bodies are slightly different, as they were done at different body shops by different people to wildly diferent specs, engines, it seems, that were done in europe, were to one of three different stages, but at the same place and by the same people)

american engines were not sent to germany.

Maybe they didnt have the same, or even any, stampings on the head, this is the first guy from america who has posted he has such an engine, so i initally asked for the stampings.

his repy above indicates he either hasnt got an amg engine, or they were not marked in the same mannor as europe.

for this reason i have asked him to photo the head, without the rocker cover, to show the valve gear, and post the picture, it will be blindingly obvious if it is an amg engine.

there are other checks, but they all require some dismantling.

taking the rocker cover off will not be a waste of effort because if it is an amg engine, he will need almost certainly need to do some adjustments to the valve clearances anyway.

If it is, i will ask him to check other things, to contrast against my engine.

I will then learn more about the american 103 amg engine, and the posts will act as a guide for others.

1987AMG

widebody,

I will be taking the rocker cover off this week. i have to replace it due to some leakage. i will have pictures to post when i do

in refrance to your last posting, The only true document that i have is in the service booklet saying that the orignal first buyer was AMG north Americe located out of IN. I will also post a picture of that as well

On the head located above the 1st spark plug does not indicate that it was stamped, so im going to guess that it was NOT sent to Germany to get modded. All the work was done here in the US.

I do have emails where their was discussion from the Pres of RENN TECH talking about his involvment in this pirticular AMG.

Please let me know what exactly you need pictures of i will take as many as you need.

I will say I was very nieve about this car when i first got it and the air box did have the duel intake, but I have lost it! I tried to outfit it with a cold air induction and thought i would not need it agian (VERRY STUPID OF ME I KNOW) so i have had no luck finding another so i replaced it back to stock as much as i could buy putting an OEM air box back on. ( I RELIZE THAT I NEEDED TO KEEP IS ALL ORIGNAL AS POSSIBLE)

i did however take out the automatic transmission and put a 5spd in. i still have the AMG automatic to have just in case.

1987AMG

just figured out how to up load pictures here is what the AM<G looked like before the 5spd conversion

more current pictures will be comming soon

chlippo

cant view the pictures in regular size...

looks nice

the_widebody

i suppose being purchased by amg america should make it an amg car. i want it to be, so we can compare the differences.

as far as amg america engines, they defiantly did not send them to germany,this was confirmed by other members a few years ago whilst arguing about the three item rule

i was just trying to ascertain if they stamped them the same way

mabe you could scrub the area clean and double check if any stampings are there.

if you want to turbo that motor, its aint gona be easy.

performance with out turbo is average at best when compared to modern cars.

BAD300

So, here's your project thread 1987AMG! COOL

Um....before this thread gets any more out of hand. Full credit for considering boosting an awesome car But buddy, if you post on an enthusiast forum stating that you have a genuine AMG pre-merger vehicle, you will unfortunately get grilled! Comes with the territory. Btw, I don't believe anyone's meaning to offend. W124 modding is both difficult & expensive & that's if you indeed find the right info in the first place I've learnt there are a few members with great advice & knowledge to share. The ones that have been there or are going there I'nm talking about. Not the purest's that haven't a clue & comment with little facts......

You've posted, PM'd myself for help & I am more than willing of course but, as with a few other hard-core members on here & even moreso on other, perhaps more performance -orientated forums, I will be concise & honest with my replies because it's narrow ground & some of us bounce off each other with info & we're all learning something more in order to get the results we're after Takes alot of research & reading & thinking though & you MUST know you expense LIMIT, especially if you are not performing the work indeed yourself. Most members I've found except for a few do their own fabrication/modding work that obviously saves cash but alas, takes time & effort!

Frankly, the whole idea of turbocharging such a high comp AMG engine is asking for alot of trouble & expense. It is the complete opposite of what is needed for reliable boosting. This talk from other members about forging the engine internals is totally unnecessary with these engines. Take it from me & others who can verify this. I through out an expensive, forges engine that was poorly built by a workshop. It was roo-ted! A complete waste of money & time!

Forging is only necessary where 'mega-performance race modding' is performed OR whereby a stock engine has weak factory internals ie: conrods & pistons/rings. This does not remotely apply with the M103/4 engines I assure you

Also. I would imagine your AMG donk will already be strengthened in any area AMG plant could possibly conceive of from the stock M103 right? The inherent problem lays in the CR (comp' ratio). It's way to high because that was the point of the AMG workshop in order to raise power/torque & acceleration of the engine. I guarantee the stock M103 engine is built tough enough from the German factory to handle far far more than you will ever accomplish for the street! The weakest points on the engines are the pistons/rings/head gaskets & fact galleries are quite close together. BUT. The stock engine still has high quality alloy pistons & will only be damaged through "carelessness" or "ignorance" when it comes to TUNING!!!! Cannot emphasise this enough!!!! Reliability is all in the tune!!!! Getting the AFR's right & consistent fuel mapping across the entire rev-range is CRUCIAL when boosting any vehicle.

In the simplest terms. The only thing you must do is lower the compression of the engine. If you indeed want to do it 'properly' & are after reliability & longevity of the engine, you can do this simply by purchasing after market low comp' pistons & ring set & a VRS gasket kit! A cheaper option would be to grab a stock low-mileage engine from a parts yard or importer & swap out the pistons, grabbing a new set of rings along with the gasket set. Also if you do change the head gasket etc, go for a multi-layer SS or copper aftermarket one! The stock gaskets are crap!

If you want to go serious after choosing to do this. I'll help you through the process & am more then happy to give advice & pointers on how to squeeze the maximum performance out of each & every mod/part. Happy to work with you buddy. I will confess however. If I had the choice again. I wouldn't waste my time with the W124. As much as I luv the cars & yes, not many folk are into boosting them. It is alot easier, not to mention more sensible to start with a turbocharged model to begin with. Ie: the Nissan 3.0L I6 is so similar to our engine, as honest performance folk will admit. You can use the heads (better flow?). The shorter ratio LSD's just for an example.

Lastly, you also have the 'flex plates' to consider & I hope you used a Hi Perf', quality clutch kit when you did the tranny conversion?

Regards,
Tim

1987AMG

here are the pictures that you ask for. i have also included the sticker from the orignal dealership selling it to AMG CENTRAL INC. I have looked and double checked for the stamping but all i see is a "7" and a " ' " mark or a "4". no other markings on the head though.

1987AMG

My budget is around the 5k dollar range. i have serious thought about the idea of not turbo te AMG. How ever i am still contplating the idea. I would like some other ideas on how else i can "BOOST" my AMG.

QUESTION:
when replacing my auto for 5spd, should i have swapped the rear diff???
i didnt cant tell much diffrence but i AM a AMATURE and not to sure of it

I own a car dealership here in Ga and have a personal famialy friend ASE MASTER TECH 30+ years experiance to help with the project. unfourtantly i do not have anyone to do fabrication work( depending on wha it is)

agian will have pictures all over the place very soon

please let me know if eeryone can see the pictures good and if im doing them right

BAD300

Pics are OK for now. At least they enlarge with a mouse click. Alright! Down to business!

The diff ratio may be different but that is hardly the concern right now. Not of great importance until you get the more important stuff sorted first.

5k range will only get you somewhere if you work with the stock ECU. There is no after-market flashed chip available for any early Merc engine that I know of so engine can be tuned post boosting? There is considerable difficulty/effort right there. Although Ed (aka RBYCC) will point you in the right direction with the factory option specifics (set up & base tuning info) of the "Turbotechnics" twin turbo he cloned with help from a cluey tuner, working with the stock CIS erc etc however, his engine is the stock low-comp (9.2:1) M103 so again, you have to sort the compression out anyway.

I am trying to cut through the bull**** for you buddy! It is imperative that you CONSIDER CAREFULLY what you WILL be in for right now! I guarantee there will be stuff come up to blow your budget as is the course for custom builds.

What will this 'family friend techy' ACTUALLY charge for his services??? Can he indeed perform a decent "dynotune"? A MUST & probably the most important aspect to boosting a car that has no factory base line ECU mapping available.........Also @ this point you MUST have all the fueling & electronic components in very VGC! You can't afford unforeseen problems once you get it to tuning time. See where I'm going with this?

1987AMG

i see where you are going.
I have about 5k now, more funds will be avalible later BUT i dont want to sink a TON of money in to this. i want to see if their is a way to remap my ECU.

MY main objective is to create alittle more power with the possiblity of TURBO! I want to consider all my options.

my TECH will charge ME $30hour, we do not have a DYNO at my shop, that will have to be done somewhere else.

TO EVERYONE WHO DOUBTS THE 3.2 EXITANCE HERE IS A LINK TO READ ABOUT MY AMG THAT I BOUGHT FROM "POS" BACK IN SEPT2009.

https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-v...e-3-2-amg.html

BAD300

What's your location, just roughly even so I know what info that relates best to you? $30/hr is pretty good but is he Merc/300E savvy or @ least performance savvy? If you can sort the compression & tuning hassles out, then you may see clearly what dollars you will likely be spending....

chlippo

my 2 cents:
This car is a classic/rare car. turbocharging it might ruin that fact.

I turbocharged my regular M103 W124 300E, but i wont ever attempt this on my W124 3.4 AMG

1987AMG

i have been dong some real consideration on taking on he turbo project i am leaning on NOT turbo the little beast!

HOWEVER!!!!!...................................... ..........

I do want to BEEF up my baby, after doing the 5spd swap so i can have more controle of it and make it a little more rare.i want to see if their is any othr way to preformance mod it like ECU or so.

chlippo

no performance mod to the ecu...im not 100% sure but im 99% sure.

But....since you got an M103 engine basicly, you might have some peformance gains if you do the trick that fools the ecu and get you some more timing.
Have a read on the fruit forum:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...highlight=free

and
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...d.php?t=245997

very good information and has been tested by many benz owners. Still your engine is a bit different so it might work even better for you or might not...

BAD300

If you want to keep originality & resale value. Don't do a thing! Keep mileage down & stow it! Obviously not what you want but sound advice from a financial aspect. Cars, whether rare or not, are only worth the big resale $'s if they are in great shape & have low mileage.

The mods chlippo has advised won't be so obvious to a future prospective buyer either. Anything after market you do to an AMG will be frowned upon by the purists! But, if you don't give a stuff & just want to grow bigger nuts on the thing, go for it! Where NA modding is concerned though, don't expect great improvements to performance without the cunning &/or $'!

I'm sure members like chlippo can suggest some worthwhile ways to get the NA gains you desire & save you costly, worthless effort.

Cheers,
Tim

the_widebody

you do indeed have a amg modded 103 engine my friend, this is obvious by the fact that your tappets are manually adjustable.

you should check the clearances!

it will have enlarged exaust valves and ports, and a more agressive camshaft.

the elz mod wont make any differance to that setup, it should be set to max already.

you could boost it to around 5/6 psi in its current form, using a split second controller and it would go very well.

i say this because a guy over on benzworld has a sl500 129, with a non compressor 55 engine in it retro-fitted with a supercharger and it has 11-1 comp ratio, and he runs 6 psi

(the factory 55 komp engine has a lower compression ratio and runs 11 psi)

the only problem with that is you may be tempted to push it too far and bust it.

i would keep it as is, the only reason I modded mine was because it had a damaged camshaft, they are no longer avalible, and the cost to fix it by having one made would have been simerler to boosting it.

fyi, the head gasket on your engine is a special item wich costs around 6 times the price of a standard one!

as for the diff, it will be a 307, and 210mm ring gear with asd wich coupled with the getrag from the 190 cosworth (if thats what you have ) makes the car very low geared, this is what i have at the present time and im currently looking for a 2.65 or 2.85 from a 140 s class wich has the asd as well.

Quicksilver500

If you are in Ga give Jonathan a call

http://blueridgemb.com/

He specializes in older AMGs (he has a few w124/126 AMG cars) and he does some work on my 500E when I don't have time.

-Mike

RBYCC

Jono may have also sold this car for POS to the current owner ?

To the OP..I would not mod this car as it has provenance from Westmont....